Is Pumapunku our smoking gun?

There has been a recent rise in reports and information regarding the ruins at Pumapunku that it has led me to do a little investigating of the general area using Google Earth and, of course, other internet sources.

I wanted to see for myself what actually remains here. What the general area is like and to see if there were any other markings on the ground that stood out.
I was considerably surprised to discover that there are no forests, not even clumps of trees. It did not take me long to find out why there are no trees. The entire region is so high above sea level that trees just do not grow. It is all mostly grasslands.

Whilst I was looking at the area in question from the air, I soon began to realise how heavily the entire area has been farmed over a very long period of time, yet the actual population of the entire area is nowhere near that of what I would expect to see for such a vastly farmed area. So why has there been so much farming here? It would appear that the area is ripe for cultivation, or was...

Let me give you a couple of examples via these pics;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4ecbd5a7e1d9.png[/atsimg]
Notice on this one, the extreme lack of access or buildings;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5045b5100900.png[/atsimg]
And here into the mountains;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fb15b05d64c0.png[/atsimg]

What is fascinating here is that many of the farmed areas go right up into the mountains, are spread far and wide yet very little in the way of buildings. There are even vast patches of fields that have been clearly marked, yet no buildings for miles.

You will notice that many of the fields resemble our farms today, rectangular, although some do have triangular boundaries which tends to blend in with some of the stone work we see and other ground markings as seen here;

The triangular marking here reminds me of many of the lines in Nazca;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e4e91140678.png[/atsimg]
These next 'fields' resemble very much to Inca/Aztec designs. How recent these markings are is something to be discussed of course, yet there are similar 'straight lined' markings to this all over the area;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2346eeae145c.png[/atsimg]

Some markings just make me wonder what they were thinking;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d774692d30b6.png[/atsimg]
Is this an ancient airstrip? It can't be a new one, there is a building on the runway!
It seems odd to be a farmed strip.. there are no other farmed areas nearby, unless the inhabitant of the house only farms that bit...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a2814c094e89.png[/atsimg]
These islands seem to suggest that they are ancient field boundaries and have not been ploughed under by more recent farming. These islands can be found in vast areas stretching for miles. The islands can be seen all over and seperated by new farming creating islands of islands. These may help us to understand the immense culture and civilisation that once lived here so long ago.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c0439b5126bd.png[/atsimg]

In this next image we see the main ruin of Tiwinaku, it is not too far away from Pumapunku itself. As much as this site is of interest it does not hold yet hold the same evidence as Pumapunku. Notice the angular boundaries rather than curved or square or rectangular. It reminds me of other sites where constellations have been lined up;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e08fca5ee6d9.png[/atsimg]

Here is Pumapunku;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6d3801c3d9d9.png[/atsimg]

For those of you who have not seen the History Channel documentary on the ancient astronaut theory, then here is the video section of Pumapunku

I am sure I, and others, will find many more unusual sights from the air in this area of Bolivia. It is an immense area that stretches far to the East and North.
To give you an idea, taken as a screen shot at 62kms altitude;
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b91345127f5c.png[/atsimg]

My point is that Pumapunku could very well be the answer to many of the other sites on Earth. It could prove to be the origin of the Pyramids in Egypt, the answer to our lost history..to the fact that we were once a vast culture that was spread around the globe that collapsed for some reason. Either that or we were visited by beings from other planets who helped us, or we built all this and left Earth to venture to the stars for safety due to some event that destroyed the vast majority of the history we are missing.

This place seems to be drowning in history that we have only barely glimpsed at. Scratching the surface is an understatement. All we have really done so far is take pictures and make a few videos. We have yet to unearth this area and its ancient message.

We are not alone, we have been here before and we will continue to be until we decide otherwise.

We are not alone, we have been here before and we will continue to be until we decide otherwise.

Amen Brotha

Great thread, man, and i appreciate all the info you gave here


Yep, we've definitely come and gone, probably many times, before. Just too much evidence points out that fact, whether historians agree with that or not. I can see why they argue so strongly against it... they've spent a lot of time and money getting the jobs they have.


But the evidence is really becoming overwhelming that history is not as they tell it; it's so strong that even a child can see it.

Great topic - S & F for you.

Here is a website all about it. Check it out - great info and pics.

www.officialdisclosure.com...

"It is a small sample of a vast network of patterns that surround the lake and extend for more than one hundred miles south into the Bolivian desert. The patterns display geometric repetition and intelligent design. There are interlocking rectangular cells and mounds, perfectly straight lines and tree like arrays that are uncharacteristic with natural erosion. These cover every topographical feature of the high plateau surrounding the lake, over flood plains, hills, cliffs and mountains. Although these geoglyphs are remarkable in their obvious strangeness, what is more astounding is that they have remained in obscurity until now. In the same way modern archeologists recently found the ruins of hidden Mayan temples in the Guatemalan jungle by using earth orbiting satellites, we have discovered what could be one of the greatest finds of our time."

The structure may have been built by the Anunnaki which I believe were the "fallen" Angels that were cast out of the city in space "Heaven" to the Earth.

These huge blocks, one of which weighs 800 tonnes could not be replicated even today using our best technology.

So it seems that this could have been a city built by these fallen Angels, and further evidence suggests that the "god" they worshiped which is depicted on the gate of the sun as an square faced almost reptilian looking being that has tears running down both cheeks and holds some kind of staffs in each hand with light beams emanating from the face may have been a depiction of the former head angel Lucifer, who was brought down to earth by God, and as we can see from the following passages in the Bible, could allude to these same beings having been survivors of the great destruction of Atlantis. Pay special attention to the part about SITTING IN THE MIDST OF THE SEA.

Ezekiel Chapter 28

1: The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2: Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
3: Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
4: With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures:
5: By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches:
6: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7: Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8: They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9: Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10: Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.
11: Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12: Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13: Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14: Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15: Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16: By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17: Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18: Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19: All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

So what can we surmise beside the fact that this "King Of Tyrus" was none other than Lucifer himself, and also the fact about the "sitting in the midst of the seas" and the wisdom he had leads me to conclude this Pumapunku was built by the fallen Annunaki, and destroyed by God at some point in the ancient past.

We can conclude that it was built about 200-300 BC, about 2200 years after the pyramids were built and well over 2,000 years after the Enamma Elish (which is about the gods and not about space travelers) was written:
en.wikipedia.org...

That it's from a known cultural group with descendants in the area.

Here's a current interactive dig site:
www.archaeology.org...

reply to post by Julie Washington


Great find.. thank you.

Some amazing pictures there.. they really show what I was trying to express.
This entire region is overwhelmed in a history that we have so little idea about.

I have a sneak feeling that we will discover something there that will prove that this place is much older than the current estimates..


reply to post by Byrd


I'm sorry but how do we conclude these dates from a wikipedia source?
Even the build date of the Pyramids is in dispute due to the issue regarding who actually built them.

Even this line;

Many of the joints are so precise that not even a razor blade will fit between the stones

en.wikipedia.org... is usually used in reference to the Inca structures

Tihuanaco, according to the recent history channel documentary, apparently defies dating techniques and is estimated at over 17,000 years old.

The cut stones of Pumapunku put the Pyramids to shame. If Pumapunku was built by a more advanced culture and the Pyramids by a less advanced one, then logic would suggest that the skills used at Pumapunku were only partially passed on to whoever built the Pyramids. After all, a skilled tradesman does not give away all his secrets.. He keeps his best to ensure he gets the work..

How does a culture from a few hundred years BC cut stones to such clarity and precision that we, today, believe that the only way they could have done it was with machines and diamond tipped tools. Some of the cuts and holes in this particular type of stone are suggeste to be impossible for the vast majority of humanity to have made at the time.

I appreciate your input to this, but even the archeological webiste you posted had its last update in 2002.

There is another technology behind the construction of Pumapunku. It could be so old that it dives into an ancient culture that we cannot even have any idea about. It could have been brought to Earth from elsewhere.
There is just not enough evidence yet to confirm who, what or how designed, cut and built this place.

Diorite rock;

Diorite is an extremely hard rock, making it difficult to carve and work with. It is so hard that ancient civilizations (such as Ancient Egypt) used diorite balls to work granite. Its hardness, however, also allows it to be worked finely and take a high polish, and to provide a durable finished work. Thus, major works in diorite tend to be important.

en.wikipedia.org...
other sources;
geology.about.com...
www.britannica.com...

It's interesting to see a Diorite vase from predynastic Ancient Egypt, ca. 3600 BC pictured in the wikipedia page after they have said that the Egyptians use this rock to carve granite.

It also states that this rock is rare... So who had the ability to find vast quantities of it to build Pumapunku?
If it is so rare, why use it in such a manner.. Why, and how, do you decide to cut such a hard rock into these shapes and designs... unless of course you wanted it to last far longer than anything anyone else could build afterwards.

After all, the only stone harder than Diorite is Diamond.. Get yourself some Diamonds and then you can cut Diorite.. but scratching away at a piece of Diorite with a bit of diamond held between your fingers is going to take far longer than shaping sandstone blocks with granite tools to build a Pyramid.

Originally posted by Extralien

reply to post by Byrd

 

I'm sorry but how do we conclude these dates from a wikipedia source?

Check the references at the bottom and the information on the dig site. They have information about how they were dated.

Even the build date of the Pyramids is in dispute due to the issue regarding who actually built them.

Not really. The issue of "who built them" is one of those "if you ignore every piece of writing at the site and place it out in the middle of the desert, then you can ..." sort of things. (I don't mean to be snarky, but I have studied this for many years.)

Tihuanaco, according to the recent history channel documentary, apparently defies dating techniques and is estimated at over 17,000 years old.

If you recheck your sources, you will find that an extra zero has been inserted in that date. The culture itself is only 2,500 years old... much younger than the 3,000 + year date of the pyramids.

The cut stones of Pumapunku put the Pyramids to shame.

Compare apples to apples (well, close enough.) Look at the temple of Hathor at Dendara ( www.touregypt.net... ). That was done about the same time as Tihuanaco.

Could you point to some details in Pumapunku stonework that you feel puts the Temple of Hathor (built at the same time) to shame? To my eye, Pumapunku appears a lot cruder and the craftsmen weren't capable of carving detailed things like fairly small hieroglyphs into the stone.

The Parthenon in Greece was built at roughly the same time period as both of those. Can you point to ways that you think the Parthenon (with its huge, tall pillars and famous sculptural panels) is shoddier workmanship than Pumapunku?

If Pumapunku was built by a more advanced culture and the Pyramids by a less advanced one, then logic would suggest that the skills used at Pumapunku were only partially passed on to whoever built the Pyramids. After all, a skilled tradesman does not give away all his secrets.. He keeps his best to ensure he gets the work..

I think you need to compare stonework from that time period that is dated to 2800 BC or thereabouts to compare with the pyramids. When looking at the pyramids, don't forget to also look at the temples associated with them (and of the same date).

How does a culture from a few hundred years BC cut stones to such clarity and precision that we, today, believe that the only way they could have done it was with machines and diamond tipped tools.

Uhm... the "gosh, we can't believe it was done that way" was written by people who actually didn't study other cultures?


From your source:

Diorite is an extremely hard rock, making it difficult to carve and work with. It is so hard that ancient civilizations (such as Ancient Egypt) used diorite balls to work granite. Its hardness, however, also allows it to be worked finely and take a high polish, and to provide a durable finished work. Thus, major works in diorite tend to be important.

In other words, 1,000 years before this time the ancient Egyptians were shaping diorite into rock balls to shape their own diorite and granite.

It also states that this rock is rare... So who had the ability to find vast quantities of it to build Pumapunku?

It's found in vast quantities in the Andes mountains, as that article said. It's an upwelling of lava. It also listed other places where it's found (you can actually find it here in my home state of Texas.)

After all, the only stone harder than Diorite is Diamond.. Get yourself some Diamonds and then you can cut Diorite.. but scratching away at a piece of Diorite with a bit of diamond held between your fingers is going to take far longer than shaping sandstone blocks with granite tools to build a Pyramid.

The technique is to use diorite to shape and polish diorite... just as we use diamonds today to shape and polish diamonds.

When I was there in 1999 I was told the following by our local guide.

When orginally discovered the country of Bolivia did not have the knowledge or money to properly manage these sites.

The Vatican funded and brought in their archelogist to do the orginal work at Tiahuanaco and the surrounding sites. They made this agreement with full control of all disclosure of what was found. There are many aspects that were misrepresented so it did not conflict with perceived history.

The time lines at Tiahuanaca was originally estimated at 10,000 to 20,000 years old by the Vatican's archeologist's. The Vatican did not release these dates.

There is a mound "from memory here" 50 feet high by 400 feet long. Sound radar has shown many artifacts, yet the Vatican will not allow this area to be excavated, this was as of 1999,


This agreement is publicly known.

Another interesting fact, in one area of Tiahuanaca there is a sunken room that has 30 or 40 heads sticking out. There are many heads that resemble different races. There are three or four heads that look like the typical alien head.

By the way Wiki changed to definitions over night in the last two weeks.

So were they correct before or after the change?

Originally posted by extr5


By the way Wiki changed to definitions over night in the last two weeks.

So were they correct before or after the change?

Dunno. How were they changed?

There's a blog/discussion area of Wikipedia and you can see who changed it and why it was changed.

Where's the digs and the studies etc? There is that one site as posted by Byrd but that's not really up to date. I wanna take ground penetrating radars and all the latest gizmos in there, anyone have extra money lying around?
Most intriguing part of the site in my opinion in addition of those finely carved groves on the stones is that they go together like lego blocks. I for one wan't to know what it could've been when complete.
I don't believe it was aliens per se unless there's solid proof to that. On the other hand if it was the locals then why isn't there more of these kind of structures around? Would think that after they finish one up they'd start building another.

reply to post by PsykoOps


That is the sot of stuff that needs to be done.. the sooner the better..

I feel there are many many more questions with answers in this area.

The ability to create such shaped rocks is, in itself, an amazing feat even if they are only a couple thousand years old.

I am kinda going with the feeling that they are much older though.. something about them don't ring true. There has to be more to this...

Originally posted by extr5


This agreement is publicly known.

Okay so post to it.

reply to post by Byrd

That it's from a known cultural group with descendants in the area.

ah i don't buy that at all. i mean respectfully, just to ponder the reason behind such massive structures. is nothing short of mind boggling.

Originally posted by PsykoOps
On the other hand if it was the locals then why isn't there more of these kind of structures around? Would think that after they finish one up they'd start building another.

The terrain is fairly sensitive to environmental impacts. Farming methods are generally of the "slash and burn" sort, and the soil is rather thin and poor. There's not enough food to go around if you have a large city and the surrounding country has 4 years or more of drought.

I suspect that, as with the Olmecs and Mayas (both in different areas), climate and wars meant that the people simply moved away from the cities and found new land to farm. With most of the folk gone, the cities fell into ruin within a short time.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Byrd

 

That it's from a known cultural group with descendants in the area.

ah i don't buy that at all. i mean respectfully, just to ponder the reason behind such massive structures. is nothing short of mind boggling.

In every case that I know about, it boils down to a single word: government.

If the leader of the land wanted it done (or the local religious leaders), then the people were coerced into doing it (or did it willingly.) This may have been a capital city so it wasn't put up in a single year but rather developed over time. Nor was the city lived in for only a few years.

You're looking at a place that was inhabited for several hundred years, with people building and repairing as they went along.

reply to post by Extralien


Looking at that area on Google Earth is addicting, I have spent hours viewing all of the ruins that can be found. There seems to be stuff all over the place.

Take a look at Caral in Peru about 700 miles up the coast. Some of these ruins are said to date back to around the same time that the Giza Pyramids were built.

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