The LITERAL deception of words is holding humanity back.

Hi all, since i'm not much into arguing about various translations of fairy tales i don't post here much, but i've got something to say to anyone who "believes" anything at all in the way of a theology or religion.

I don't want to argue with anyone, i'm not intending to insult or disrespect anyone or their beliefs, but i've got a few things that need saying and might be offensive to the literal believers of any ideoligy or theology. I'm hesitant to post this even though i know it's important, just because i don't want to start a riot or a war, there's enough of that in the world already.

But, if we can all do this like rational adults without it turning into a war, i'll participate. I request in this thread that we respect each other as logical thinking humans regardless of beliefs. Since respect of another's belief is such an ambiguous thing, it'll be impossible for anyone to not offend or insult another's belief. Therefore, respect the person and if you participate, expect that someone WILL offend you with their view of things, it's inevitable, and it's also relevant to the topic at hand.

Now, let's jump in.

Literal readings of ANY system are a deception. I've read a LOT of texts extensively, from ALL belief systems, religions, and theo-philosiphies, and what i've found is that they all could have been written by the same group of people because of the message contained therein. The conspiracy here is not that a super secret cabal of reptilians go around writing the same texts and books, but that there's a common unifying theme among ALL the texts.

The thing in common i've found in ALL the texts as that they are all vivid parables used to stimulate thoughts on the subject and cause you to think rationally about it. Sometimes the parable is intentionally irrational to get you to think, "hey, that's irrational!" and to illustrate through parable the irrational thought as well as the rational. The important think to remember is that these ARE parables, every word in all of these texts are poetically devised to eloquently and succinctly convey something that can't be worded.

I've found a lot of parables, if not most of them, are "double edged", meaning that if you roughly follow the literal interpretation and apply COMMON SENSE you'll generally do the right things by blindly following. Like if you just obeyed the ten commandments and never asked why, you'll do the right thing and deal in a positive and rational manner with the world around you. If you understand the "why" behind the commandments (in relation to how it affects your "self" or soul or conscience or whatever you call "it") then there's no need to strive to obey the commandments because with understanding of "why" obedience IS COMMONSENSE and with the wisdom you gain from exploring the concepts behind the parables, logical thinking will automatically cause you to follow the "law of god".

And yet we still fight over fairytales.

Here's how i'll describe it in modern day parable:

Lisa went out to Best Buy today and bought a new digital camera. At the store, she checked the specs to see if her laptop met the minimum system requirements. She decided to purchase it and took it home. Upon unpackaging it, she noticed some advice, warning labels, and a quick start guide.

Using the quick start guide Lisa quickly found out how to perform simple functions like powering on and pressing the shutter button halfway before takign a picture, and with the quick start guide commandments she could point her camera and push the button and a picture is taken.

After getting familiar with her camera she began to take the time to learn the "text" manual that provided detailed information on HOW to take the best pictures possible. Over time she learned the teachings of the instruction manual and allied them to her daily life of photography. She'd ask questions of the teachings and the meanings behind them, and learned how the trinity of aperature, exposure, and ISO had so many possibilities that it'd take an instruction manual of infinite size to tell you what to do for each picture in every condition. Upon realizing this, she tossed the instruction manual aside and went out to do what she learned by experience AND the instruction manual, without thinking about it, the right way, automatically.

In the simple little story above, you're Lisa, and the decision to buy the camera is your decision to enter into a specified "brand" of theology. The quick start guide, that's like the ten commandments, the five pillars of Islam, etc. and the instruction manual being the actual "book" or bible or quran or torah, or whatever "brand" you bought. Getting all the details of "what to do once you're actually doing it" comes from reading the book. Putting it all into practice means tossing the book over your shoulder just going out and doing it, not because the book said so, but because it'd be silly and illogical not to.

Now, the parable extends all the way to "God" itself. The whole entire collection if texts and theologies portray a god, gods, buddhas, or whatever deity is associated with the parables. These deities are supposed to represent YOU. Yes, you ARE God. Through quantum whizbang science you create what you observe, and are created by being observed. And through the same forces of nature god "works through you" using your physical medium to act as an observer and a link to existence. That's not the important part though, the important part is that when you read the texts you'll realize they make a lot more sense if you replace the word god with whatever you perceive to be at the core of your existence. For everyone their perception of self, spirit, soul, is unique, and by recognizing that the basis of self is where "god" wells up from. And in this sense, god is EVERYTHING that passes through your "soul" and therefore IS you.

Now whether Lisa had bought a Christian camera or a Muslim one, maybe a Jewish cam, or Buddhacam, no matter the brand, or differences in the silly little words in the book, or what they call their fancy focus (VishnuVision?) at the end of the day if she followed the path beyond the book and did the right thing out of commonsense, she'd still have lovely pictures. Maybe she needed to push different buttons or use different options, but when it came down to it the final result of doing what's right is not a choice or an option it's just what is.

Taking ANY and ALL of the texts literally is like tripping over one's own feet on purpose and not taking the extra "step" to walk the path proper. Once you do walk the path you'll wonder why you ever stumbled, even once.

And that, the literal trap, the not taking the step out of the words and into the between-the-lines and building upon the basics hinted at in the instruction manual is why we're stuck. The Islamocam buyers argue with the HinduShot users about who can set their white balance more accurately or who's got a lower F-setting, but at the end of it all they're arguing over trivial details that aren't going make one right or wrong WHEN USED WITH COMMONSENSE.

Think of it like Pc VS Mac users, they can argue all day about who's got the evil version and go to net-war over having one different keyboard button but they still all end up at the same internet arguing about who walks the "cooler" path. They both can post inflammatory podcasts, spew out PC hate speech, etc with equality because they have A system that is LOGICAL to that INDIVIDUAL.

All these texts, once you get beyond the words, tell the same story.

All i ask is that everyone realize there's a LOT more to it than just following, you've got to assume your role as your own empowered spiritual leader and lead yourself down the path that the "instruction manuals" tell you is there. You'll learn why right is right along the path, and when you do, cast off ignorance and forgive yourself for that ignorance.

absolutely correct, friend, and I agree with you with the basics of everything you had to say... and had to seriously giggle at the HinduShot and Islamocam references lol ;D



I tend to look at things like this, overall...


there's something that everyone is essentially trying to find. A center point. This center point can be considered "god", "the source", "nirvana", "total knowledge", WHATEVER you wish to call it... it's at the core of what all of us seek.

it is, in essence, what could be considered "god".


You can look at this all as being a big wheel. That center point that I spoke about is the center of the wheel, the hub. Each possible pathway is a spoke on the wheel. Each of us is on one of those spokes.


Some people find christianity is the spoke for them. Some people islam. Some budhism, hinduism, tao, science, flying spaghetti monster...

Whatever your own path is, it's what is right for you, and you're on it for a reason.

That does NOT mean that someone else's path is incorrect. They're just on a different spoke than you are. That doesn't make you superior to them... All things are leading to the same place. No spoke is stronger than the other, to be that way, the wheel would be out of balance and we all fall down.



But... in the end... we're all looking for that center. It's all maya, illusion.


It's when people take that illusion seriously that we get into the most trouble


Your path can change at any time, just by turning your head, and seeing the "shinies" on the other side

That was very well thought out and well spoken.

From my perspective we don't really need anyone else to tell us how to think and if we read these texts, and I have read some, it is a matter of letting the text speak to you.

We all have it within ourselves to figure out our path and will be where we need to be when we need to be there if we continue to listen to ourselves and not question so much (as I tend to do at times), hence my sig.

Sorry, guess I went off there. Great post anyway.

Thanks for a thoughtful thread that makes some sense. I really appreciate that you weren't calling religious folks dumb, or anything like that. You should be a diplomat.
I have been hung up on this very issue for a very long time. If I get wrapped up in the literal meaning of a bunch of words that are supposed to be my instruction manual, there are several reasons I'm going to fail.
Language changes, translations can be inaccurate and in the end, the manual is approved by the editor(s) who ultimately decide what it is that is pertinent to the operation of my HolyDigitoly. (i really liked your cameras)
What really irks me is when someone takes the literal ideal that they ascribe to their instructions and try to force that on someone else, regardless of the brand of their device. Ya know, I might not even WANT to take pictures, so I really don't even CARE about how to set the white balance. So may wander around claiming that if their manual isn't heeded in the way they prescribe, that you will fail to be an artist, or worse yet, perhaps being 'great artists' themselves, they should kill you, so that the world won't have to look at your pathetic pictures.
It would be nice if we could all just accept and look past the hardware that someone uses and just focus on the art they are making with it.
Thank you for this.

ooommm. see the camera be the camera. Good post. As a Christian I took the step to let God drive and that has made all the difference. It's when we get in the way of ourselves is when the trouble starts. If you are not responsible then you are irresponsible.

I try to show people that all the time. Seems to be up to the person most times.

Understanding and wisdom is universal and available to all those who seek them, regardless of race, culture, social status and so on.

The difference in understanding what is being said, and accepting the literal is no different than someone who understands math and how to add, and a person who is running around repeating 1+1=2 without a clue as to what it means.

While the person who says 1+1=2 may be saying something that is true, it's just a matter of luck. Someone could have easily told them 1+1=39. As such, it's about as useful as knowing what a couple of celebrities did for dinner last night.

However, the person who actually understands the math and such is able to apply that basic understanding throughout their lives on a daily basis. It's useful, it betters their lives and improves things etc.

Because real knowledge is understanding, it's as universal as math.

Same thing with religious texts as you say. I can find understanding listening to someone from any religion. But within that specific religion I see those who actually understand, and those who repeat.

Someone can say "Jesus is truth", and I can agree with that statement. But when I start to look deeper I find the person doesn't really understand what that means. They are just repeating the literal.

And it's certainly noble I would say to try and teach people understanding, teach them how to add and so forth. But when we see religion being spread, it's really all about getting someone to repeat 1+1=2 rather than understanding it.

I wish more people understood.

I don't call religious folks dumb, just those who follow anything blindly without any reason other than they were told to. No matter what you follow, if you do it blindly, then you're "dumb"(in the sense that you're ignorant there's more to it than blind faith). Good news is dumb can be fixed by look, listen, and observe.

Most people i discuss "religion" with will quote scripture and verses till they're blue in the face and yet not have ANY idea what it means beyond the literal words and it's sad. Proselytizing something you don't understand is dumb. Ever notice how wise people aren't the ones out spewing forth memorized words from some book and proclaiming godliness? You usually have to ask a true wise man a question three times to get the true wise answer. That's the wise man's filter from ignorant people asking shallow questions to which they don't care to understand the answer to.

My point is that to believe in god's word written by man is to believe in man's word as a golden calf of the truth.

This transliteration of quran verse sums it up when you apply the concept of allah being from within you:

"And if all the trees that are in the earth were pens, and the ocean - seven more oceans to replenish it - were ink, the words of ALLAH would not be exhausted. Surely, ALLAH is Mighty, Wise."

That basically says that the quran (and other texts of "Allah's words") are merely your instruction manual. It's up to you to actually put into practice the lessond derived from the words.

It's also an empowering thought if you're of the belief that "god" is within you that the wisdom and might of god is also within and if you ask the right questions, godly wisdom will follow.

For some people it's easier to take something written literally word for word and not look beyond that to ask themselves how they personally feel about it, does that make sense and to think deeper than the surface.

Also, parents need to ask their children more questions, "how do you interpret that?", "what does that mean to you?", "do you have anything to add to what you just watched/read/heard?" etc. etc. Teach your children to have an inquisitive mind, and to have an open mind.



reply to post by liveandlearn


You have a great signature, I absolutely agree.

reply to post by Orion65

For being the "most gagged person in history" she seems to be doing pretty well getting her story out. Think about it folks. The 9/11 perps had no trouble killing 3000 innocent people to further their agenda. Why is this woman still alive? She is not widely known to the public and would be a perfect candidate for "suicide", car accident, plane accident, crazed truther attack etc etc.

You are so right and I do hope some young parents see your post and do just as you have said.

Unfortunately most of us are indoctrinated at an early age and it may take many years to figure it out, as it did me.

My children, though all believe some of this, can not totally release the indoctrination that I and their father impose on them.

Originally posted by liveandlearn
reply to post by Orion65

 

For being the "most gagged person in history" she seems to be doing pretty well getting her story out. Think about it folks. The 9/11 perps had no trouble killing 3000 innocent people to further their agenda. Why is this woman still alive? She is not widely known to the public and would be a perfect candidate for "suicide", car accident, plane accident, crazed truther attack etc etc.

You are so right and I do hope some young parents see your post and do just as you have said.

Unfortunately most of us are indoctrinated at an early age and it may take many years to figure it out, as it did me.

My children, though all believe some of this, can not totally release the indoctrination that I and their father impose on them.

Huh? Who's the most gagged person in history? Did I miss something?