Is this the end?

I would like to say I am not passing what I believe off as fact.

I only make the argument because I want to provide the other side to the argument. And it is my opinion your interpretation is the result of misdirection.

Every generation sicne the time of Christ has believed it was the end of times, adn I would suggest to anyone reading this thread or any other doomsday, armageddon style thread to take them with a grain of salt.

To let such notions weigh on your mind is nothing short of futile. Nothing can come of it, and if by some small chance your interpretation were correct then it cant be stopped. So either way, spending time contemplating it to be true or not is quite pointless. I don't mean to say that in disrespect to your opinions and thread to be clear.

Again, it is my wish to just provide an alternative point of view for those who may hear these things in church or other places. And Im sure you know, the other side of the story (the side I have provided) is never spoken of in church. It probably would be considered blasphemy in some religious circles...

So that being said, I wish you all the luck... And no harm intended with any of my posts...

reply to post by JustG
Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: RE: "why blatantly say the bible says the opposite?" ... NO! I'm not! I'm saying make your No#1 A-PRIORI your faith and service to God and in the case of this particular thread I'm saying that an end times Christians vigilance for rapture/armaggedon etc should ALWAYS take at least 2nd place prioritory to that. Not OPPOSITE! Just 2ndry in
focus and importance!

Note the scriptures I provide to back up my claim are supported by a scripture you provide RE: "Matt24 v13but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." and as I clarified my position as NOT anti Vigilance RE: my previous and unchanged position from my original post ==>"Also I would posit that just as one can not be sure of the timing or placement of the enemies attack, then one should remain vigilant until the "thief" exposes themselves!"... I would therefor posit that standing firm would involve remaining 1: Faithfull and Obedient and 2: Vigilant [i.e. watchfull and prepared]. I would also posit that getting No#1 correct 1st will go a long way in ones favour even if they get No#2 horribly wrong and I offer up Stephen's stoning as an example of getting No#1 correct and No#2 fatally wrong!

Personal Disclosure: Totally redacted!

Edited to redact P.D. Due to kneejerk posting! Me a :shk:
Edited for spelling.


[edit on 23-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

[edit on 23-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Well it's interesting that you seem to be copying and pasting, but lets see what we come up with.

False Prophecies About the Armageddon:

Jesus’ Predictions:

1) Jesus falsely prophesies DIRECTLY to the high priest (Caiphas) that he would live to see his second coming. Jesus uses the term “coming on the clouds of heaven”. This clearly negates the “coming” as the resurrection but as a return to the earth on CLOUDS, not his return in human form from the dead. Matthew 26:64 & Mark 14:62.

"But I tell you: From now on you will see 'the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power' and 'coming on the clouds of heaven.'" (Matthew 26:64 NAB)

Then Jesus answered, "I am; and 'you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of the Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.'" (Mark 14:62 NAB)
2) Jesus mistakenly tells his followers that he will return and establish his kingdom within their lifetime. Matthew 23:36 & 24:34

Amen, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. (Matthew 23:36 NAB)

First, I use KJV and there is a reason that many people prefer this one.

#1. Jesus is referring to His next coming and in the KJV uses 'hereafter', not that the high priest specifically will be alive to witness.

Convenient that when you don't want something to be literal, you say its not, and when you do you say it is. I know you'll say the same of Christians, but I just wanted to point out it goes both ways.

2. Mat 23:36 This is completely out of context.
Mat 23'34 This is a parable and what I have already referenced.

Matthew 16:28 “There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

It is supposed that this could be what was releaved in the very next chapter, or the destruction of Jerusalem.

Mark 13:31 Parable. Already addressed.

This seems to be repeating the same things from different books. You know that the Gospels are all accounting the same thing right?

Admittedly Mat10:23 is a hard verse. It could be the judgement of Judea in AD 70

Rev1:3 Because he says must shortly take place, doesn't necessarily imply in that lifetime. But is clearly showing its predictive.

Rev 22;7 In the context of the prophesy, the things will shortly take place.

1John 4:3 NO, he says the spirit of anti-christ.

I've pretty much covered the most important and now its getting very out of context. Not to mention this is quite unfair as you have obviously taken somebody else's points and simply pasted them in here.

These last verses are VERY out of context.

Finally, at the beginning of this thread I asked that this remain about the timeline as I did not want it to degrade into just another back and forth discussion of what is or isn't true. I've kindly answered you and I trust you will will move the conversation back to the threads intended purpose.

If you would like further input on these points, please start a thread specifically related to this and send me the link, I will be happy to comment or clarify.

reply to post by JustG


I believe I have been very on topic. Yes those were quotes that I copied and pasted. Im not sure why that bothers you. I used them properly per the quoting mechanism in the reply functions.

As for the rest of your reply, I addressed it with my post at the top of the page. As I already knew what you were going to say.

Again, as I have already mentioned in the post in my post at the top of teh page I have already stated I am not passing those opinions off as fact. My intentions are to give an alternative view for others that may read the thread. Not to just take your interpretations of armageddon prophecies as absolute truth, when in fact there is absolutely no consensus within religious scholarship.

Sorry if you have contentions with that. But luckily for me this is a public forum and my points are indeed on topic.

Never in history has the realization of the mark of the beast been so close to a reality.

A Florida-based company that boasts selling the world's first and only federally approved radio microchip for implanting in humans is now turning its development branch toward "emergency preparedness," hoping to produce an implant that can automatically detect in its host's bloodstream the presence of swine flu or other viruses deemed a "bio-threat." VeriChip Corporation currently sells a small, under-the-skin Radio Frequency Identification capsule, or RFID, that patients can opt to have implanted, containing a number computer-linked to their medical records, enabling doctors with a special reader to access the information even if the patient is unconscious or unidentified. The company boasts its microchip, roughly the size of a grain of rice, is the only such implant approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration. But VeriChip has also turned its attention to other uses for the technology, including microchips that be used to tag and log human remains after a disaster and implants the company hopes will be able to warn if their host is infected with the H1N1 swine flu virus, the H5N1 bird flu virus or other pandemic agents deemed to be a "bio-threat." VeriChip is working with a Minnesota company, Receptors LLC, to develop the virus-detection technology.

More here

Every time I see something like that, the more I believe. A few years ago I was sure we were at least 50-100 years off, considering things could get alot worse, but now I don't believe we have much time at all.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by JustG

 

Disclaimer: As elsewhere!

Explanation: RE: "why blatantly say the bible says the opposite?" ... NO! I'm not! I'm saying make your No#1 A-PRIORI your faith and service to God and in the case of this particular thread I'm saying that an end times Christians vigilance for rapture/armaggedon etc should ALWAYS take at least 2nd place prioritory to that. Not OPPOSITE! Just 2ndry in
focus and importance!

Edited to redact P.D. Due to kneejerk posting! Me a

:shk:
Edited for spelling.


[edit on 23-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

[edit on 23-8-2009 by OmegaLogos]

I'm not sure anyone here implied that they didn't do that, but thx for the input.

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
reply to post by JustG

 

I believe I have been very on topic. Yes those were quotes that I copied and pasted. Im not sure why that bothers you. I used them properly per the quoting mechanism in the reply functions.

As for the rest of your reply, I addressed it with my post at the top of the page. As I already knew what you were going to say.

Again, as I have already mentioned in the post in my post at the top of teh page I have already stated I am not passing those opinions off as fact. My intentions are to give an alternative view for others that may read the thread. Not to just take your interpretations of armageddon prophecies as absolute truth, when in fact there is absolutely no consensus within religious scholarship.

Sorry if you have contentions with that. But luckily for me this is a public forum and my points are indeed on topic.

1st, it bothers me when people simply copy and paste because I don't know that they actually understand the references. For example, do you know why I said some were out of context? YOu didn't argue my answers, so I'm assuming no.

2nd, when I started this thread I very clearly advised I didn't want this to degrade into a discussion of the whether or not there is a God or the word is truth (as is usual in these environments). I'm surprised you can't see that there is a big difference between arguing whether or not the word is truth and determining if the timelines/prophesies in it are applicable. These are two completely different conversations.

Perhaps you could think hypothetically and look at the video I posted and the year given being 2010 as the start of tribulation and see if you can find any holes in it. I personally found it to be very intriguing. If you can find holes in it or see problems with it I would love to know. As that is why I created the thread.

Again, I have no problem discussing your topic if you wish, but please create a thread for that topic and allow this one to continue.
thx.

Originally posted by calstorm
Never in history has the realization of the mark of the beast been so close to a reality.

A Florida-based company that boasts selling the world's first and only federally approved radio microchip for implanting in humans is now turning its development branch toward "emergency preparedness," hoping to produce an implant that can automatically detect in its host's bloodstream the presence of swine flu or other viruses deemed a "bio-threat." ...

More here

Every time I see something like that, the more I believe. A few years ago I was sure we were at least 50-100 years off, considering things could get alot worse, but now I don't believe we have much time at all.

I agree, its definitely going to be an economic system. Now that we have the chips in our driver's licence, bank and credit cards it seems to be moving along quite rapidly and fits the 'our generation' scenario.

I know not too long ago they had them for diabetics, so this idea of pinpointing people w/ a disease doesn't surprise. I imagine they could also oversee a person's alcohol level, any drug presence, etc etc.

1984 indeed.

reply to post by JustG

For example, do you know why I said some were out of context? YOu didn't argue my answers, so I'm assuming no.

yes, I do realize some of them were taken out of context. I didnt want to put the source because of that and because of the bias that that particular source seems to have. And im not into spreading certain agendas. Im only intersted in accurate info and un propogandized arguments...That source didnt seem to fit that...but there were some relevant passages in that quotation...

2nd, when I started this thread I very clearly advised I didn't want this to degrade into a discussion of the whether or not there is a God or the word is truth (as is usual in these environments). I'm surprised you can't see that there is a big difference between arguing whether or not the word is truth and determining if the timelines/prophesies in it are applicable. These are two completely different conversations.

I am not arguing if there is a God or the divinity of biblical passages. I am arguing the passages themselves. Not who wrote them..only why they were written and for what purpose. My opinion is that they were not written for this time (today). And I used the quickest means to just show the other side to those passages (even though yes, some, not all, are taken out of context...i should have mentioned that...my bad)

Perhaps you could think hypothetically and look at the video I posted and the year given being 2010 as the start of tribulation and see if you can find any holes in it. I personally found it to be very intriguing. If you can find holes in it or see problems with it I would love to know. As that is why I created the thread.

Im not big on videos, but I will give them a go...

I noticed some Christians are afraid of New Age spirtuality?
It always seems to come up in your forums like this.ANd don't give me and answer of ooo it is of the devil.I've heard in forums where Christians would label the Beatles as devil music?I don't want to avert the post.I just want to understand why some Christians still think this way.It just seems like Christians label anything they don't understand or fear as the devil.

I rember when I was a kid I went to a Christian camp for 2 weeks and they were showing us videos how Led Zepplin was satanic and not to listen to the music.So for years I stopped listening to music because I thought it was satanic.So I was controlled in some way to stop listening
to led zepplin.After I seen how I was being controlled I stopped
being a Christian and started asking questions and reading up on all
religions to see how it all fits together.

It seems fear is used alot by different religions mainly Christian,Muslum and Judism.I don't want to stereotype anyone I'm just pointing out what I have come to find after studying all these different areas

So in relating to the post I think Christians are coerced into fear because
they believe if they sin and don't take Jesus in they're heart they will
die and go to hell or hades.I think the entity known as Jesus didn't want to be worshipped as an Idol .I think his whole intention was to show us that the Christ in inside all of us.We all have the Christ Consciousness.I really don't think he wanted to be worshipped as he is now a days.
The way the truth and the light is the Christ Conciousness not the entity Jesus himself.

You guys should really stop worrying about when the end times is coming but think about what the Entity know as Jesus really said.And not
the dogma that was later added to the bible.You can find more of his
sayings in the dead sea scrolls and gnostic texts although still littered with dogma but not as much in my opinion.




.


[edit on 3-9-2009 by danhow]

Interesting post Danhow.

I think you are probably not familiar w/ some of the context of the new age movement. Please take a moment to watch the link in my signature.

There's not a lot more I can say then that about it at this point.

There is rational and unrational. I think it is a shame when people are brought to understand God via fear. That I consider wrong. As for music there is a wide variety of opinion. Some will even say that Christian rock is bad. Personally, I try to live my life in a way that does not affect others because of my choices. My choices are not their choices and vice versa. I think we must all live by conscience.

As for the thread, its intent is not to determine the correctness or incorrectness of the word. For arguments sake, its correctness is assumed and the question is, can we put the time lines together in a way that makes sense? I posted a link to a video near the beginning that should be watched for anyone who cares to comment in the context of the thread.

Finally, and I believe I've said this already: not watching is not biblical. We are advised not only to watch but to be ready. We are advised not to be found sleeping. We are advised to discern the times. What I don't get is why so many people have a problem w/ others being biblically aware.

You don't believe and that's good for you, but why does it matter to you how people believe in God? What brings you to preach unbiblical principles in a thread like this?