rosicrucian

hello, ive only posted a few times here, but i want to set the record straight on rosicrucians. i will tell you what i can, and will answer question you may have if i can.

i am a rosicrucian, i am not a mason. they are similar, but yet very different. you do not have to be a mason to be a rosicrucian. we do not worship the devil, as many people think. we study the esoteric and mystical teachings of great civilizations, i.e. ancient egypt, greece, etc. we train to open our minds, thru meditation, we feel that everyone is connected on one plane or another. we are not bent on world domination, but we feel that evreyone can live peacefully, and harmonuosly together. 90% of what you read on the internet is false, the only way to find the real truth, is to join.

feel free to ask what you want, and i will answer to the best of my knowledge any question you might have.

I want to join. how do I?

reply to post by 11b1p


Have you read 'The Invisibles' by Tobias Churton? It was published 2009 by Lewis Masonic (www.lewismasonic.com).

ISBN: 978 0 8531 8 309 9


Info re: Tobias Churton:

Tobias Churton is an Honorary Fellow of Exeter University, Lecturer in Freemasonry & Rosicrucianism at the the university's Centre for the Study of Wester Esotericism, offering Britain's only Masters degree in that subject.

An international authority in this field, Tobias Churton is the author of The Gnostics, The Magus of Freemasonry, Kiss of Death: The True History of the Gospel of Judas.

In 2007, Lewis published Churton's Freemasonry -- The Reality as well as two of his films on the Masonic and Rosicrucian Tradition, A Mighty Good Man and The True Story of the Rosicrucians. He was founder-editor of Freemasonry Today magazine and is a regular lecturer at the Canonbury Masonic research Centre, whose international conference he chaired in 2006.

(typed and copied just now from the flyleaf of Churtons latest book about Rosicrucianism, The Invisibles so please excuse typing mistakes,etc.)

It's an interesting though not particularly light read. What I drew from the book is that in Churton's opinion, based on his extensive study and expertise re: Rosicrucianism ... that there never were any Rosicrucians ... that the concept was initially the invention of several good minds, in order to give hope and inspiration to people suffering oppression from the established church of the day .. pretty much in the same way children's fairy-tales contain a moral messages of 'good triumphs over evil'.

Churton also seems to be saying that in later centuries, those who wanted to believe or actually DID believe the Rosicrucians had actually existed, re-created Rosicrucianism based on old texts purporting to detail Rosicrucians and their exploits.

So perhaps we could liken it to people in a couple of hundred years time creating a Superman-Society, based entirely on ancient Superman comic and other books.




[edit on 20-8-2009 by St Vaast]

Originally posted by St Vaast
reply to post by 11b1p

 

Have you read 'The Invisibles' by Tobias Churton? It was published 2009 by Lewis Masonic (www.lewismasonic.com).

ISBN: 978 0 8531 8 309 9


Info re: Tobias Churton:

Tobias Churton is an Honorary Fellow of Exeter University, Lecturer in Freemasonry & Rosicrucianism at the the university's Centre for the Study of Wester Esotericism, offering Britain's only Masters degree in that subject.

An international authority in this field, Tobias Churton is the author of The Gnostics, The Magus of Freemasonry, Kiss of Death: The True History of the Gospel of Judas.

In 2007, Lewis published Churton's Freemasonry -- The Reality as well as two of his films on the Masonic and Rosicrucian Tradition, A Mighty Good Man and The True Story of the Rosicrucians. He was founder-editor of Freemasonry Today magazine and is a regular lecturer at the Canonbury Masonic research Centre, whose international conference he chaired in 2006.

(typed and copied just now from the flyleaf of Churtons latest book about Rosicrucianism, The Invisibles so please excuse typing mistakes,etc.)

It's an interesting though not particularly light read. What I drew from the book is that in Churton's opinion, based on his extensive study and expertise re: Rosicrucianism ... that there never were any Rosicrucians ... that the concept was initially the invention of several good minds, in order to give hope and inspiration to people suffering oppression from the established church of the day .. pretty much in the same way children's fairy-tales contain a moral messages of 'good triumphs over evil'.

Churton also seems to be saying that in later centuries, those who wanted to believe or actually DID believe the Rosicrucians had actually existed, re-created Rosicrucianism based on old texts purporting to detail Rosicrucians and their exploits.

So perhaps we could liken it to people in a couple of hundred years time creating a Superman-Society, based entirely on ancient Superman comic and other books.




[edit on 20-8-2009 by St Vaast]

from what i have been taught, the rosicrucians and the masons were once one, and they split some time ago.

maybe we are just a made up society, will anyone ever really know? maybe the bible was made up by some crazy guy many many moons ago. who knows, not me. i believe in the bible, and rosicrucianism, as BOTH have taught me a lot.

Konx om Pax, Frater.

Welcome

Originally posted by 11b1p
you do not have to be a mason to be a rosicrucian.

It depends on what "Rosicrucians" you're talking about. It is still required that one be a Master Mason in order to join the Societas Rosicruciana in Anglia, Societas Rosicruciana In Scotia, and Societas Rosicruciana In Civitatibus Foederatis.

we do not worship the devil, as many people think.

I've never heard anyone suggest that Rosicrucians worship the devil. Both the Fama and Confessio are quite clear that the Rosicrucians are Christians.

reply to post by 11b1p


What kind of Rosicrucian are you? AMORC?

from what i have been taught, the Rosicrucian and the masons were once one, and they split some time ago.

Are you sure about that? From what I've read, these two groups were competing against each other from the get go. (the Masons, Illuminati and Rosicrucians were all competing for pretty much the same demographic)

Today's Rosicrucians cannot trace their origin to the original Rosicrucians, although many modern groups make that claim.

Edit: This might seem strange, but any mention of the Georgia Guidestones in your Lodge? (Church??)

reply to post by Choronzon


Wow Choronzon, you really get around.

Mason, Scottish Rite, York Rite, OTO (or is it golden dawn?) and now Rosicrucian... You probably have a lot of knowledge to contribute to these forums.


[edit on 25/8/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


Are you sure about that? From what I've read, these two groups were competing against each other from the get go. (the Masons, Illuminati and Rosicrucians were all competing for pretty much the same demographic)

Actually, I'm of the opinion that Freemasonry and the original Rosicrucians were one and the same. There is circumstantial evidence that suggests it.

For example, even though the first Masonic Grand Lodge was not organized until 1717, a gentleman named Henry Adamson published a poem in 1638 that contained the lines: "We be brethrene of the Rosie Crosse; we have the Mason Word and second Syght."

This was only a few years after the Fama and Confessio were spreading, and it linked Rosicrucianism to early Freemasonry.

It is also interesting that after Freemasonry became well established, the Rosicrucians seemed to ahve vanished. Some have asked where they went. I believe the answer is Freemasonry.

I am of the opinion that the hMasonic rituals and symbols were developed by Rosicrucians, who then simply started calling themselves Masons instead of Rosicrucians in order to conceal themselves.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thanks ML. (star!)

It is also interesting that after Freemasonry became well established, the Rosicrucians seemed to ahve vanished.

So the Rosicrucian groups operating at the same time as the Illuminati were fakes? Didn't Weishaupt detest Rosicrucians almost as much as he hated the Jesuits?

...who then simply started calling themselves Masons instead of Rosicrucians in order to conceal themselves.

Why?

ps: Our mutual friend, Mr. Malenson makes a good case that the Illuminati concealed themselves within reading societies - the Philadelphes in particular. He's dug up some excellent evidence to support his claim. However, that's another story altogether.

[edit on 25/8/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by 11b1p

will answer question you may have if i can.

1. What kind of Rosicrucian are you? (sorry if "kind" isn't the right word... denomination, fraction, club...)

2. What do Rosicrucian meet as? (i.e. Masons meet as a lodge, Illuminati met as a Church)

3. Have you played Rosicrucian Chess? (Masonic Light, mentioned it a few years back and I've become ok at it. Although, I haven't tried the divination or any spiritual aspects of it.)

4. Do Rosicrucian have a special calendar? (non-Gregorian)

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23


So the Rosicrucian groups operating at the same time as the Illuminati were fakes? Didn't Weishaupt detest Rosicrucians almost as much as he hated the Jesuits?

I don't recall Weishaupt mentioning the Rosicrucians, but I would doubt it. Some of the Illuminati's highest members were also Rosicrucians (Comte St. Germaine, for example).

Why?

I can only speculate, but maybe they didn't like the publicity. The Hiramic Legend was introduced in Freemasonry in the 1720's, and is possibly based on the allegory of Christian Rosenkreutz. Pike was successful in linking many Masonic symbols to alchemy, which the Rosicrucian allegories also referred to.

reply to post by Masonic Light

I don't recall Weishaupt mentioning the Rosicrucians, but I would doubt it.

I think Weishaupt simply saw them as competition for members and contributors, maybe not quite with the same hatred he held against Jesuits.

Baron Von Knigge wrote about them in On Jesuits, Freemasons, and German Rosicrucians.

Some want to talk with spirits to learn what satisfies their passions; others want to get rich by that most miserable of arts, alchemy...

as quoted in Perfectibilists. (the quote is a lot longer of course, if you want the whole thing ML u2u me)

Mr. Melason also writes in the footnotes that Knigge complained to Zwack about Weishaupt making him write against "the Jesuits and the Rosicrucians, who had never done me wrong" (footnotes, p. 42) from letters printed in Nachtrag von weitern Originalschriften.

From bavarian-illuminati.info:

...the Gold- und Rosenkreutz [Golden and Rosy Cross] were the enemies of the Illuminati and vice versa. Why? 1) They were competitors for initiates; 2) Illuminati were rationalists and outright worshippers of reason, while the Rosicrucians pursued mysticism and theosophy and indulged in all manner of practical occultism (séances, theurgy, thaumaturgy, astrology, sorcery, kabbalistic magic and alchemy), which the Illuminati frowned upon, to say the least; 3) and the fact that the Rosicrucians were also aligned with the obscurantists of religious orthodoxy, the Jesuits, and recruited members from among its ranks.

www.bavarian-illuminati.info...
(A lot more information at that link)

...and is possibly based on the allegory of Christian Rosenkreutz.

Ooohhh that sound like a goodie! What's a good source of information for that? (the aforementioned Pike?)


[edit on 25/8/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

Society's, religion's, group's and cult's you can call them whatever you want there just a huge crock in my opinion.

How can we move on when we grasp hold of the above so tightly ?

So tightly that we could poke our eye's so hard that we could feel our underpant's on our fingertips ?

But still we do not let go of it ?

Why is that ?

It's time to cut the cord so to speak and grow up.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

i didnt even kno about this group till now. thought it was just a wanna be mason group.

Originally posted by h3akalee
Why is that ?

Because to stop a cancerous tumour coming back you have to cut out every last bit of it. Or perhaps, warts are a better analogy, you have to get to the root and cut it out.

That is why.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23
3) and the fact that the Rosicrucians were also aligned with the obscurantists of religious orthodoxy, the Jesuits, and recruited members from among its ranks

This is untrue. The original Rosicrucians were strict Protestants, having called the pope "antichrist" in their Confessio. They refused to allow Catholics among themselves.

Ooohhh that sound like a goodie!

What's a good source of information for that? (the aforementioned Pike?)

"Esoterika: The Symbolism of the Blue Degrees" is a great one, available from the Scottish Rite Research Society (and probably Ebay).

Originally posted by Masonic Light
This is untrue.

It's true alright. ConspiracyNut was talking about the Golden and Rosy Cross; and specifically over 150 years after the original manifestos.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
The original Rosicrucians were strict Protestants, having called the pope "antichrist" in their Confessio. They refused to allow Catholics among themselves.

Yes: how ironic, then, that the German and Prussian Gold- und Rosenkreutz of the 1770s to the 1790s were both Catholic and Protestant obscurantist theosophers. The "rationalists" represented by the popularphilosophen as well as the Illuminati, caused the mystical Golden and Rosy Cross to put aside old religious differences and join forces against the radicals. Read Epstein's The Genesis of German Conservatism for a thorough overview of the milieu in Aufklarung greater Germany before and during the French Revolution.