Nat Hentoff on Obamacare - I am finally scared of a White House administration

Jewish World Review

I was not intimidated during J. Edgar Hoover's FBI hunt for reporters like me who criticized him. I railed against the Bush-Cheney war on the Bill of Rights without blinking. But now I am finally scared of a White House administration. President Obama's desired health care reform intends that a federal board (similar to the British model) — as in the Center for Health Outcomes Research and Evaluation in a current Democratic bill — decides whether your quality of life, regardless of your political party, merits government-controlled funds to keep you alive. Watch for that life-decider in the final bill. It's already in the stimulus bill signed into law.


The members of that ultimate federal board will themselves not have examined or seen the patient in question. For another example of the growing, tumultuous resistance to "Dr. Obama," particularly among seniors, there is a July 29 Washington Times editorial citing a line from a report written by a key adviser to Obama on cost-efficient health care, prominent bioethicist Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel (brother of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel).

Mod Edit: Posting work written by others, please review this link

mod edit: title for clarity

[edit on 23-8-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

I have been arguing on other threads that we are morally obligated to care for each other HOWEVER the current health care bill has some very troubling provisions which we should all be informed about - and the end of life consultation is one of those troubling provisions....I would be interested to hear what ATS members think of this pro and con - please be civil - I know its a difficult issue but we owe each other some respect in our discourse...thanks!

PS: Regardless of whether you support Obama or not no president or congress is exempt from scrutiny and criticism...

[edit on 19-8-2009 by realshanti]

This is just my take on end of life care. I would not wish Hospice on anyone. My aunt was a very countrified timid person. She became ill with heart problems and slight Alzheimer's and her children signed her up for hospice. I am pretty sure she didn't understand what they were doing to her. They stopped giving her food and doped her up on morphine and let her lay there and die. Now if this is standard procedure without government interference, can you imagine what it will be like when government does get involved and starts pushing this by offering doctors incentives to push those consults? For those who care for their elderly parents, how will it make them feel to be drug to the doctor and sit their and listen to the doctor explain all the ways to hasten their demise when they are terminally ill?

reply to post by ohioriver


I'm so sorry to hear that story but I imagine its been repeated many times in this country -and I have to agree - its already disgraceful - how much more disgraceful will it become - plenty imo...plus the author of the article is correct I think when he says that so many regulations are passed without whisper to the public - how long would it be before the voluntary consultation becomes a situation where if the patient refuses he/she is simply dropped for refusing it.

And Hentoff the author is an old lefty who has mellowed on some issues so its not as if he doesn't understand the mindset - he understands it all too well..

reply to post by realshanti


Yes And I can see this being done in other areas too. Don't want a vaccine? Then you don't get health care for anything else. This indeed could be turned into a "death panel". There is nothing crazy about it.If the health care bill passes, I could see some cases heading to the supreme court where Obama is already stacking the deck.

Well not many replies - LOL - I guess there aren't too many peeps sixty and over and the rest who are younger aren't that interested - not surprised I wasn't that interested in "old" people's issues when I was younger - but I'm afraid this issues is going affect everyone in the long-run - ahh well...perhaps my topic title should have been more sensational...thats how conditioned we all are...

reply to post by realshanti

Well not many replies - LOL - I guess there aren't too many peeps sixty and over and the rest who are younger aren't that interested - not surprised I wasn't that interested in "old" people's issues when I was younger - but I'm afraid this issues is going affect everyone in the long-run - ahh well...perhaps my topic title should have been more sensational...thats how conditioned we all are..

Just saw the thread. People are just finishing dinner, younger people are probably out-Saturday night.
Anyway, the vast majority of the seniors, including my wife and I already know this, and that is why seniors are 100% against this health bill.
Contrary to Obama's belief, most seniors are quite wise and intelligent, and knew what a phony he was. That is why he didn't get the senior vote.

He truly BELIEVES that it is ok to just let seniors die, if they are ill. He is only interested in young people that he can bleed dry with his taxes.

Of course, Obama and the young people will one day be seniors, and believe me, it comes with a blink of an eye. It seems like yesterday, I was getting out of grad school, and now I'm retired and collecting social security.

Anyway, this truly is an evil administration that is hell-bent on destroying the family, the constitution, and the country.

If he wants to spread the wealth, why doesn't he sell his mansion and give it to the poor?



[edit on 22-8-2009 by ProfEmeritus]

Originally posted by ohioriver
She became ill with heart problems and slight Alzheimer's and her children signed her up for hospice. I am pretty sure she didn't understand what they were doing to her. They stopped giving her food and doped her up on morphine and let her lay there and die.

This was done in Germany too, Euthanizing the elderly.

Action T4 - 1939 to 1941 in Germany

Ppl do not realize how much we are shifting toward Fascism, but if
you look to the past it helps you understand the coming future.

reply to post by realshanti


I'm not an Obamanite, and think the guy is worse for our country than Chimpy McBush was, but I'm tired of all the untruth and misrepresentations surrounding the so-called health care debate.

Ezekiel Emanuel has been grossly misquoted. Check out the wiki on him, then look it all up for yourself. en.wikipedia.org...

This whole debate detracts from what is really going on. From the fact that the politicians, and their rich conspirators are looting this country from the inside at an accelerated rate. So, what do they do? They get all you fools to argue about health care. They get you to believe that the government will send around death squads when they send death squads oversease, and get rich off of supplying them goods and services. They convince you to believe that taxes will go up, but neglect to mention that you won't be paying 500 dollars a month for health insurance. They make you believe that some bean counter in government will ration your health care when as it is there's a bean counter at your insurance agency that rations your health care.

You are all being played for the fools that you are.

reply to post by SpacePunk


Space, there is more to this then meets the eye,

Bowling for Death Panels: Euthanasia Group Behind "End-of-Life" Counseling
www.lifesitenews.com...

Wallace Unplugged: End-of-Life Counseling

This is coming up this Sunday.

fns.blogs.foxnews.com...

Wallace Unplugged" on the real story behind Veterans' health care and end-of-life counseling.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



www.rihlp.org...

[edit on 113131p://bSunday2009 by Stormdancer777]

To late Specter, calls for hearings

Sen. Specter Calling for Hearings into End of Life Guide for Vets

www.digitaljournal.com...

The most controversial section of the guide is titled "What makes your life worth living?" and asks the veteran to look at scenarios and rate whether it is worth living. Among the questions scenarios: "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and "My situation causes severe emotional burden for my family."

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
To late Specter, calls for hearings

Sen. Specter Calling for Hearings into End of Life Guide for Vets

www.digitaljournal.com...

The most controversial section of the guide is titled "What makes your life worth living?" and asks the veteran to look at scenarios and rate whether it is worth living. Among the questions scenarios: "I am a severe financial burden on my family" and "My situation causes severe emotional burden for my family."

This is absolutely horrific - what a complete travesty - I am at a loss for words - this makes me weep - love and respect for the life of others is in short supply.....and the terrible irony is that this person as a veteran already risked his or her life for the rest of us....

reply to post by realshanti



Hi real,

This thread sure got quiet.

Originally posted by ProfEmeritus
reply to post by realshanti

 

Well not many replies - LOL - I guess there aren't too many peeps sixty and over and the rest who are younger aren't that interested - not surprised I wasn't that interested in "old" people's issues when I was younger - but I'm afraid this issues is going affect everyone in the long-run - ahh well...perhaps my topic title should have been more sensational...thats how conditioned we all are..

He truly BELIEVES that it is ok to just let seniors die, if they are ill. He is only interested in young people that he can bleed dry with his taxes.

With all due respect professor what makes you think that?

I suggest you reevaluate how outlandish that sounds, if you are NOT hell bent on being fully manipulated beyond all help.

reply to post by realshanti


I am against the Health bill as it is written. However, this is the least scary CF of our government that I have witnessed.

Does anyone, anyone at all remember the Patriot Act? Does anyone not remember that is how we lost the bulk of our civil liberties and why it is now legal for the government to spy on citizens because they have the wrong bumpersticker or wear the wrong tshirt or any other ridiculous thing like that.

This bill is nowhere near as epic a win for the forces of evil as the Patriot Act was. I am so mad at Republicans who are belly aching now about rights when they gave those previous turds a free pass to wreak havoc because of 9-11. They trusted the government then. Where is their trust now? Its not like the shape of government changed that much.

I don't trust anyone in the two party system. Never have, never will. They've done nothing for us and everything for themselves.


[edit on 23-8-2009 by A Fortiori]

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by realshanti

 

Hi real,

This thread sure got quiet.

Yeah it did - partly because peeps are probably tired of the whole health care broo-ha-ha but also because if you read the Hentoff article in the OP its clear that it is well researched, and that Hentoff speaks with a voice of authority having been an activist on the left for many years....hard to argue with facts and experience but especially facts- and the fact is that the health care proposal contains some very disturbing language....I don;t care how the dems, including the head dem, want to tell us it isn't saying what it IS in fact saying....

And I think that is what is so f-ing sad -that this new "yes we can" bunch isn't much different than the old bunch and in fact is using most all of the previous admins policies including using 9/11 as the justification for escalating the Afghanistan conflict [see Obama's speech to VFW]...

Still in place:
Patriot Act
Executive Orders signed into law by Bush
Suspension of Habeas Corpus continues
Rendition continues
Million man Airport Terror Watch list continues[check - your granny might be on it]
Wholesale spying on the American Public continues
Calling peeps unpatriotic for speaking out continues [ I don't care who organized gramps to go to the town hall meeting - he had a right to be there and to speak. shout, or otherwise verbalize]

and now this health care reform proposal seems to have further plans for gramps....

I question - question - question and then question some more - and now that I'm sixty I feel like I'm more in the cross hairs than ever before....

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I agree, there's more to everything that meets the eye. The reaction to the plans that are floating around Washington makes me think of this:



as an allegory on all the hysteria.

But the hysteria has led people to believe that what will pass will lead to something like this...



Or outright executions.

It's nothing more than fear mongering. It never changes, only the players do. This time around it's the Republicans, during Chimpy's reign it was the Democrats, during Clintons reign it was the Republicans. It's all much ado about nothing.

All that will eventually happen is that people will be forced to purchase health insurance like they are forced to purchase vehicle insurance. The rates won't go down, they will go up to cover the 'uninsured' the same way that vehicle insurance companies keep rates high using 'uninsured' drivers as an excuse. The bean counters will still decide who lives or dies, but they will be hidden in a 'private' company with a government mandate to rip you off.

[edit on 24-8-2009 by SpacePunk]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Good idea and guess what He didn't even buy His mansion a lobyist built it for Him .....

Originally posted by realshanti




Million man Airport Terror Watch list continues[check - your granny might be on it]

Is there a way to find out if you are on it? I just tried and it says no you cannot check if you are named on the list.

reply to post by Iseekthetruth!!!!!!!!


If you have to ask if you are on the list, you are on the list.

Evidently the list is only made up of first and last names. If you have a common first and last name, it's probably on the list.