Attorney says blogger incited others to help FBI

Attorney says blogger incited others to help FBI

hosted.ap.org

HARTFORD, Conn. (AP) -- An attorney for a New Jersey blogger facing charges in two states for allegedly making threats against lawmakers and judges says he worked with the FBI to deliberately make provocative statements.

Defense attorney Michael Orozco told reporters after a hearing in Hartford, Conn., that his client, Hal Turner, published the antagonistic words so that people who acted on them could be arrested.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[mod edit: fixed "broken" url]

[edit on 18-8-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

PEOPLE, this is a clear cut warning. It is telling you that there is planted people among us that are here just to incite and convict possible revolutionaries. This tells us that we have to be more cautious on what is posted. Hypothetical situations are one thing. Calling to arms is another. If you have things to say that could be considered criminal then either do not post them on forums like these, or keep your postings very anonomous. Do not let them get you over someting as stupid as an online comment.

hosted.ap.org
(visit the link for the full news article)




Mod Edit: fixed link

[edit on 8/18/2009 by JacKatMtn]

Have you noticed that some of the members who were posting in threads about revolution about six weeks ago are no longer quite as active here on ATS? I wonder if they got nabbed?

Violence is never the answer. Even our Founding Fathers that had to resort to fighting for our Freedom, did so only as a last resort, and had to learn that painful lesson of the costs that violence, even when justified, entail.

If people find themselves unjustly burdened by our current Administration, then they must do what the other half of the population did for the past 8 years and just wait it out until the pendulum swings to the other direction, or use the Democratic process to initiate change.

Even if things are unbearable, it is never too late for peaceful Reformation.

Acting out in violence only undermines your own cause. You are shooting yourself in the foot and killing your cause before it even gets off the ground. Far greater changes can be made with the Legislative Pen.

If you don't want to play by the Rules, jump through the Hoops, and cut through the Bureaucratic Red-Tape, then that's your own prerogative. However, that doesn't justify taking matters into your own hands and being a law unto yourself, taking up the mantle of judge, jury and executioner. Show a modicum of intelligence! There is a system in place to express your discontent...there is a system in place to bring about change...for Heaven's sake, use them! Ignorance and frustration are never an excuse to justify violence!

And, being an ATSer, we have all been warned time and time again about being manipulated by outside influences. Those citing you to act irrationally, and to act out in violence, are doing so not with your interests in mind. Use your head and don't lose it! You'll be needing it in the days and months and years to come.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


Not just here. Try to find out exactly how many FBI and NSA agents are working for these organizations. They won't tell you and even congress has no idea! Agents and their contractors are everywhere from your local School boards to all the fraternals and college campuses! Our lives and our opinions are being monitored every day.
Zindo

Funny. Kinda answers the question in another thread - Is Alex Jones a fearmonger?

When people who have a following are trying to call out a revolution - in broad daylight, and over the airwaves - and can do it untouched for years, there's a reason there, whether people really want to unearth the truth or not.

What TPTB don't seem to realize is that smart people don't wear their opinions and grievances on their shoulders. Smart opposition doesn't scream, wave guns or make threats.

That's what the baiters are aiming for. And they won't win so long as the people stay smarter than that.

I guarantee there are people planted to start riots. Its simple chaos theory.
Need an outlandish revolution? Start it yourself. Create a spark and watch the fire grow.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Have you noticed that some of the members who were posting in threads about revolution about six weeks ago are no longer quite as active here on ATS? I wonder if they got nabbed?

Or there employer called them off because they didn't get enough people to meet quota.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


LOP, this sounds exactly like the type of stuff I was talking about here.

Are You "Right-Wing Fringe", or "Left-Wing Fringe" and How Will They Push You

...or...

Are You The Victim of An Agent Provocateur, On ATS?

I wonder if his motivation was driven, bought, or he did it for a plea-bargain for lower jail time?

Wow, the article say he was an "agent provocateur".

[edit on 18-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by exile1981


Someone sent me a U2U that was unnerving. I did not reply to it. My instincts/intuition told me it was a set up. But I have no way of knowing for sure. The private message was asking for personal information on my stance.

Patriot Games

Some of the most zealous members of the "militia movement" that gained popularity during the '80s, and has continued in fits and starts since then, have turned out to be federal agents. In fact, it's quite possible that the "militia movement" itself is the result of a government program, a successor to COINTELPRO with similar goals.

From a law enforcement point of view, it makes sense to attract and concentrate potentially dangerous radicals in groups supervised by one or more officers and supported by surveillance teams. After enough evidence has been gathered, they round everyone up, put them on trial and send them off to prison.

A rather infamous example of the process involved Randy Weaver (of Ruby Ridge fame), who was introduced to undercover ATF agents at an Aryan Nations meeting.

Usually, the outcome is less spectacular (i.e., ongoing surveillance eventually resulting peaceful arrests), but the procedure was common enough that it's unlikely any significant militia group hasn't been infiltrated by informants or directly by sworn law enforcement officers.

Presumably, similar tactics can be used on the Internet, with the added advantage that agents aren't limited by geography or their physical ability to meet with and monitor suspects. They can simply reel them in with websites and material that appeal to radicals, collect identifying information from them and forward it to other officials for followup.

Thus when I see posts advocating the "bullet box" over the "ballot box", inciting violent, illegal conduct in general and attempting to rally other members to do the same, I'm reminded of the law enforcement techniques described above.

Fortunately, discussion of illicit activities and recruiting are prohibited by the AboveTopSecret.com Terms And Conditions Of Use, so the question of whether an offending member is a potentially violent criminal or an agent provocateur is ultimately moot.

Neither are welcome, and members who should notice behavior common to either are well-advised to ALERT offending posts or otherwise let us know.

ATS is a community dedicated to Denying Ignorance through civil discussion, not a war zone, and all members should post accordingly.




P.S. Remember that recruiting or solicitations of any kind are strictly prohibited by the T&C. If anyone attempts to gather personal information from you for any reason, whether in a post or U2U, whether asking you for an email (sending email gives them your email address) or simply clicking on a suspicious link (which gives them your IP address and may expose you to malware attacks), please report it immediately. Whatever the reason, phishing is not welcome on ATS. :shk:

[edit on 8/18/2009 by Majic]

reply to post by Hazelnut


Someone had sent me a U2U which was alluding to them following some sort of orders, or carrying out a mission on my behalf as well, a long time back.

I U2U'ed them back immediately, asking who they were, what they were talking about.

This way, I have deniability, and I have the outgoing message saved as well.

I will find it and post it here in an edit.

I cannot find it now, it must be in all the bad U2U's that got dumped.

I save every U2U, even applauses, and those broad ones from ATS.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


That is an interesting question. If he did roll over and turn in others for lesser jail time then in my honest oppinion he is a worse than the agents trying to get people. That type of betrayal is the worse kind.

My oppinion is that violence is only an answer to violence upon you. Violence should never be the starting point.

reply to post by LeaderOfProgress


Correct, violence is a last resort, period.

I use self-defense as a major motivator for myself.

If someone does not like me, and they attack, I am released from my bond to attack, in total self-defense.

Just because someone may not like me, does not mean they have to attack, but they usually do, and always end up suffering greater, because I am a warrior of heart, mind, and soul.

[edit on 18-8-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Star and flag.

I really hope people who "think less" think more about this when they are drifting towards anger, hate and preparation.

Planted agents are nothing new to the realm of conspiracy...and yes some laugh at the entire thing as a whole.

But its stories like these that grab attention of the open minded, and hopefully brings them to a peaceful stance politically and spiritually.

Do not adopt hate.

Do not begin violence.

Do not become influenced by a paid voice.

I hope people are ready for more of this sort of thing. It has been going on for decades, and it will continue.

There are famous people with radical views who are benefiting from pushing you towards losing your mind.

PS- I'd like to give a shout out to Alex Jones! War for my mind, indeed...