Dawkins getting rich selling atheism

Originally posted by Quaght
Only an omniscient being can absolutely know that there's no omniscient being, which becomes a contradiction.

This is actually a very good point. + star

As soon as there's a fraction of a doubt, one cannot consider himself an atheist. I have to consider switching to the agnostic side.

I'll pray on it.

Originally posted by ConspiracyNut23

As soon as there's a fraction of a doubt, one cannot consider himself an atheist. I have to consider switching to the agnostic side.

I dont know if gods exist, but i havent found any reason to believe he does, so i dont. Am i not a atheist? Of course i am. As long as im not a theist, and as long as i dont believe in gods i AM AN ATHEIST.

Just because i dont say god doesnt exist doesnt mean im not an atheist. Im still an atheist... because atheism is either to believe there are no gods, or just those who dont believe in gods. If you cant see that then you are dumb as heck.. why cant you people get it? Especially after its been explained time and time again.

Originally posted by Daniem
If you cant see that then you are dumb as heck.. why cant you people get it? Especially after its been explained time and time again.

Because there is an obvious difference between agnostic and atheist, it can be seen and applied and no matter how many times you keep calling it atheism it's not going to change that difference.

I think it's well known and understood that many agnostics call themselves atheists.

Why do you have such a problem with the distinction? It's not like people are trying to change your beliefs or force something onto you, it's just a recognition of the difference.

I use to be an atheist, and then I figured it was pretty close minded to say something doesn't exist because I haven't seen it. So I became agnostic. And when I was agnostic I made the distinction myself, because I didn't want to be associated with those who I thought were close minded.

It's kind of funny, because it was theists who pushed me away from theism, not atheists. And it was atheists who pushed me away from atheism, not theists. Why? Because their hypocrisy was showing.



[edit on 8/19/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by Daniem

If you cant see that then you are dumb as heck.. why cant you people get it?

Firstly, I ain't speaking to you. I'm clearly replying to Quaght.

I don't care much for what you personally believe an atheist to be. I just know that after reading Quaght's comment, I don't think I will refer to myself as an atheist any longer.

Like he said, you'd have to be omniscient yourself to know if an omniscient being exists. Since I cannot determine 100% that what we think of as gods doesn't exist, I personally (not you) feel I am not an atheist. Agnosticism alloys for this infinitely small possibility.

The existence of the infamous Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as likely IMO, and I'm not likely to join any of its churches.

I still believe beliefs in gods are irrational. It has no place in rational discussion, nor should it ever be used to support any kind of state policy. In a way, I don't feel my stance has changed much.

This transition has happened less than 24 hours ago and I'm already being called "you people".


[edit on 19/8/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by Daniem

because atheism is either to believe there are no gods, or just those who dont believe in gods.

This definition is a bit ambiguous and perhaps explains the apparent overlap between atheism and agnosticism.

For example:

"There is no Santa Claus." and "I don't believe in Santa Claus." are nearly identical statements.
and:

"There are no abortions." and "I don't believe in abortion." are very different statements.

Just a thought.







[edit on 19/8/09 by ConspiracyNut23]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23


I have only used the official definitions, (which i agree with)

Badmedia even posted a nice definition of what an atheist is, yet he clearly disagrees with it.



HE said:

Atheism 1. Disbelief in OR denial of the existence of God or gods.

And contradicts himself when he says:

Atheism is a belief that no god exists.

post by ConspiracyNut23:
I personally (not you) feel I am not an atheist

Even if you are agnostic, as long as you dont think gods or a god exists, then you are an atheist as well. Its not like you can only be one thing.

Agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism.

You and i are agnostic atheists.

An agnostic atheist won’t claim to know for sure that nothing warranting the label “god” exists or that such cannot exist, but they also don’t actively believe that such an entity does indeed exist.

I'm already being called "you people".

HAHA.. it was directed at you and Badmedia specificly..

[edit on 19/8/2009 by Daniem]

[edit on 19/8/2009 by Daniem]

reply to post by ConspiracyNut23

"There is no Santa Claus." and "I don't believe in Santa Claus." are nearly identical statements.

Nearly, but not quite. One is about believing, one is about knowing.
Just because someone doesnt BELIEVE in santa, doesnt mean they KNOW anything about his existance. In other words, they dont neccesarily say santa doesnt exist. But both are definitly "a-santaists"

I think it's funny as hell a person can essentially write and sell the same book repeatedly to the same audience. Are there really daily breakthroughs in the realm of ontology warranting new texts? Or is it just a bunch of choir preaching?

Give me a dollar and I'll give you something pretentious and "hip" to put on your shelf. Then we'll all pretend to be marginalized and start complaining like some persecuted minority. Just keep those dollars coming.

I can honestly in say in my real day to day life I have never met one person who cared one way or the other about whether or not there is a god. Where do you people live that this matters? Some Muslim state banning their women from voting? Vatican city? Some Krishna compound in California?

He must have been whipped by nuns growing up or something.

Like those churchys on TV who write book after book about their religion. The same book over and over. Yet it sells over and over to the same people.

Just makin' a buck off of some bored people like good ol' L Ron.

reply to post by Daniem

You and i are agnostic atheists.

Thanks Damiem. That clears things up for me.

I am agnostic atheist, but i realy doubt the existance of gods, just like i doubt the existance of fairies... so im kinda just atheist.


However i CANT know if theres fairies or gods on another planet for example, so i guess i am agnostic atheist by definition.. So how come there are those who just plainly denies that there is a god?
-Because there is no evidence at all, and its very lightly that humans made up the concepts of Thor, Odin, Zeus, Fairies and indeed Yahweh, etc..


But the same goes for theists.. the cant KNOW if Yahweh exists. Even if they think they vere touched or heard him in their heads.. they cant know if it realy was their god. How can you realy know anything for surtain? So that way there isnt any theists at all... they are all agnostic theists