Saudi Arabia ground markings

Do excuse my posting of this here.. I am a bit perplexed as to where this should go.

It's a bit hard to tell if these ground markings in Saudi Arabia are new or ancient.
If they are new, what are they for?
If they are ancient, how old are they, what are they and why?

etc..

They seem to follow a route of some form.. looks mostly like they follow an ancient river.. but it just might be a dusty road/track in places.
There are lots of them in quite a wide area and are relatively easy to see from 5km's up.

Does anyone have any answers for what these ground markings are?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ef6f8a26f34e.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/710a62edbb04.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7358f10727de.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4a2e447b72cb.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f4f2fd3c6d48.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6bcd168f1946.png[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9eb4c7f0034e.png[/atsimg]

I bet Armap will nail this in seconds. Why not put the coordinates into a mapping site. This'll give you an area location and the landmarks would then become clear. They're artificial and I'd expect them to be related, at some point, to irrigation or farming...possibly enclosures for livestock? Certainly interesting though

bbs.keyhole.com...
Roughly 2600 Neolithic sites in Saudi Arabia

www.saudiaramcoworld.com...

Now, Al-Saeed and his colleagues have posted on their Web site more “works of the Old Men” located 600 kilometers (372 mi) south of the Jordanian panhandle and about 200 kilometers (125 mi) north of Madinah. The most striking are the so-called “kites,” the remnants of long stone walls most likely built by groups of hunters to trap game; the walls outline the shape of a child’s kite. But the kites are huge: The “body” is a wall enclosing a corral-like space often 100 or more meters (328') across. The “tails,” two or more walls running out from the head, are typically each a few hundred meters long, but they can be as long as two or three kilometers (1.2–1.8 mi). On the ground, however, kites are almost impossible to find, because the walls, built of basalt boulders, are only about a meter (3') wide and their surviving height is seldom over half a meter, making them nearly invisible on a landscape already thickly strewn with the same rock.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Yes, they may very well be for farming, irrigation or even water sotrage/collection...

But they don't really make that much sense to me.. Some are huge, some have islands and triangular banks in their centres, some are far away from anything else and appear in relatively flat areas.

looking at the terrain it's obvious that there are natural possible pools for water to collect... building a damn to store or utilise water would be far easier than digging this lot out.

And they are rather big.. Some appear to be almost wiped out through soil filling them back up again.. Must have been there for some time.

Come on Armap, shed some light on this

whatever they are they look real old, ancient even.

thanks for the post, love this kind of stuff.

reply to post by Pauligirl
You're good, PG...damn good
That's the kind of thing they've found on the floor of Lake Huron. Stone walls used to trap animals that they stampeded.

reply to post by Pauligirl


Wow.. nice reply Pauligirl.
Thanks for the extra info.

It would seem that nobody really knows wht they are for according to the first link you provided there.

very interesting..

As far as using them to trap prey... I'm not too sure on that.. For example these patterns seem to follow particular tracks that appear well worn either through passage of man or water..

Not really something an animal would just happen to be walking down.. If it was water, then maybe it was a method of fishing.. ???

I have used a similar set up to herd a large amount of sheep in to get their yearly hair cuts!
They where made of fencing and not stone but it is the same concept and even the same design! WAY COOL!
I had no idea that stone one's even existed that could be of great age and I am constantly looking into things of antiquity. So this one is a great find.

Many older farmers still use this same method for herding large amounts (head) of cattle and other farm animals. It makes it much easier to check their health etc. We normally just grab the eldest of the group who is normally the "leader" and run ( not literally) that one toward the center the others fall in to the sides and eventually into the coral where we can calm them down with some food and water. Then proceed to move them through one at a time and back into the field where they graze and live.

[edit on 16-8-2009 by xoxo stacie]

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Now that makes a bit of sense.. It's nice to know that this may be a link to what they were used for.

But consider how many there are and the lengths of some of them..
It's possible that there was an immense amount of livestock in this area at some point. It may very well have been so fertile that sheep and cattle were extremely abundant. It would seem that almost everyone was a herder of some description in this area.

It would make snes if many people used the same structures at different times.. To build so many in one area, a few in other areas seems a lot of effort and time going into their construction just to check a few sheep once or twice a year.

Good info though and it helps us to determine what they could be for..

reply to post by Extralien
Here's some images that lends more perspective to the location.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2e7db16579e8.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8f11cc318227.jpg[/atsimg]

This next image shows the area is a vast boulder field and gives an indication of the labor that must have gone on for years to create these structures...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e7c74385cde6.jpg[/atsimg]

I think the location is Khaybar and the boulder field is formed of basalt rocks from ancient lava flows. There's a little history about the earliest people of the area...

The National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project is based on evidence that all modern human beings are descendants of people who left Africa 50,000 to 70,000 years ago. These emigrants apparently followed two basic routes: one around the northern tip of the Red Sea and the other via the Bab Al Mandab at the southern end of the Red Sea. Those who followed the latter route and then traveled north on foot would quickly have found that the interior of the Arabian Peninsula was as harsh and unfriendly in the past as it is today, as has recently been proven by the attempted dating of stalagmites taken from limestone caves in the interior of longest lava caves in the world.
2. Archeological and paleontological surveys of the caves in Harrat Khaybar should be undertaken because of their proximity to archeological sites and ancient migration and trade routes

Prospects for Lava-Cave Studies in Harrat Khaybar, Saudi Arabia

I'm looking for any neolithic activity that might indicate how these structures were used and will post anything worth adding.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Great stuff Kandinsky.

Nice pics. Still leaves me wondering what a closed stone circle and a centralised stone 'tower' would have to do with any of the above mentioned possibilities.

Ground clearance to grow crops or feed animals is one idea, but why bothe making such structures.. surely simpler to just leave heaps of stones.

Watch towers?
Maybe they were used to place dead relatives on top of the centralised stone pillars. The 'pathways' or tails we see extending from the circles could be the 'passage to the next life' ???

Just a thought..

reply to post by Extralien
Yeah, I'm still looking into it. Surprisingly, there's cave art in the area of ostriches. They once roamed the area. If they were in sufficient numbers perhaps these structures were used to trap them? Arabian ostrich So far, I'm at a loss finding explanations for the things. They seem very under-researched?

Edit: Just found a Saudi message board where a Professor with some experience of them also says animal traps with some possibly being burials...

The Key-hole sites are completely new to me. The Key-hole sites are completely new to me. I suspect they are again burial sites. I suspect they are again burial sites. المواقع التي تشبه ثقب المفتاح (مثلث ودائرة)جديدة تماماً بالنسية لي,اتوقع انها مواقع دفن Sites that resemble the key hole (triangle and circle) an entirely new relation to me, I expect it burial sites Kites: the date is difficult. Kites: the date is difficult. The best information suggests they can be as much as 7000-8000 years old. The best information suggests they can be as much as 7000-8000 years old. On the other hand they were still being used in Syria as animal traps into the 19th and 20th centuries. On the other hand they were still being used in Syria as animal traps into the 19th and 20th centuries. I think it is safest to say that your kites in the Harrat Khaybar may have been built any time from the 7th millennium BC onwards and are certainly very old. I think it is safest to say that your kites in the Harrat Khaybar may have been built any time from the 7th millennium BC onwards and are certainly very old. Kites are very common in northeast Jordan, southern Syria and northern Saudi Arabia. Kites are very common in northeast Jordan, southern Syria and northern Saudi Arabia. They are also found in central and northern Syria and in Kazakhstan. They are also found in central and northern Syria and in Kazakhstan. They usually have very similar features that allow us to identify them as a 'kite'. They usually have very similar features that allow us to identify them as a 'kite'. But the precise design can vary a great deal. But the precise design can vary a great deal. In Jordan there are several different types including one with a head like a spear blade. In Jordan there are several different types including one with a head like a spear blade. Your arrow type is very interesting and not found in Jordan. Your arrow type is very interesting and not found in Jordan. The more complex ones you have in your area could be called “Barbed-Arrowhead Types”. The more complex ones you have in your area could be called "Barbed-Arrowhead Types". A few of those I have seen in your area are different, however, and look a little more like the examples in Jordan. A few of those I have seen in your area are different, however, and look a little more like the examples in Jordan.

Link

Animal traps it is for me, although I'd enjoy more details about burials, populations, lithics, culture etc. I've yet to see a post by PauliGirl that was wrong...



[edit on 16-8-2009 by Kandinsky]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Yes it does seem odd that there is so little to go on in the way of study on these markings.

According to the report in one of the links that have been provided these things may go back as far as 8000bc.. which makes them as old as many of the worlds stone structures.

Why they should appear in just this are and so close to the pyramids, in comparison to other stone structures, kinda makes you wonder if this area was cut off from the rest of this part of the world.

That just gave me a thought.. what if they are burial mounds of a sort but their origins came from Egypt? It could be an off-shoot of Sun worship.
When you consider the symbol for the Sun being a circle with a central dot this would make a bit of sense too.

Even the great Pyramid has a 'passage to the stars' in it.. ie, the next life.

I’ve done a bit more reading–the kites are trapping animals and the keyholes may be tombs. I can’t find if there have been any digs on these.

www.saudiaramcoworld.com...

Now we come to the “keyhole tombs” and the “gates,” both novelties of the Harrat Khaybar, structures that are striking because of their unexpected, unique forms and their astonishing numbers. The keyhole tombs usually consist of a circular enclosure at the head of stone walls that form an isosceles triangle. There are numerous variations in size and in the relationships of circles and courtyards: In a few places the two are completely separated, and in others the triangle has been elongated so much it begins to look similar to the general form of some pendant tombs. Al-Saeed and the Desert Team visited a number of these structures, and their ground photographs confirm that the walls are built of dry-laid masonry, but set out carefully and often still standing a meter or more high.


I have yet to count the various tombs in the Khaybar and Al-Hayit areas, but they appear to number well into the thousands. In some places they form necropolises, with the tombs arranged on either side of avenues: Around Al-Hayit, I counted 13 such avenues with an aggregate length of about 24 kilometers (15 mi). Extrapolating from a count of a randomly selected section, I estimate there are about 1000 tombs on these avenues. To that we should add as many more tombs scattered in between, plus an unknown number already overbuilt by modern development. All around these are even larger numbers of small circular tumuli, which may be the remains of individual burials. In all, we are looking at one of the most extraordinary prehistoric funerary landscapes on the planet—and that’s still not all.

Also visible in the Harrat Khaybar window, mainly in the same area as kites but also further east, are hundreds of sites which can best be described as looking like simple gates laid flat: a “post” at either end with two (but occasionally three to five) “rails” in between. They can vary a great deal in size, from five or 10 meters long (16–32') to a hundred meters (320') or more. The key element is surely the posts, which appear to be dense heaps of boulders, and which may again be burial places. My own count yielded 95 such gates, but only a future detailed survey, including ground visits, will fully catalogue them.

More pictures and information here-there is an English button, but it takes me back to the front page-the actual reports are in Arabic
alsahra.org...

Thanks for the kind words, Kandinsky, --I just wish it were true.

tombs of giants?

i couldnt resist.

there are gigantic keyhole mounds in japan; and also long long barrows in a keyholish shape in france; and europe.

Here's a followup: www.msnbc.msn.com...

Mysterious desert lines were animal traps
Walls formed large funnels to direct gazelle and other large game animals
By Larry O'Hanlon
Discovery Channel
updated 1:39 p.m. ET, Tues., April 20, 2010

British RAF pilots in the early 20th century were the first to spot the strange kite-like lines on the deserts of Israel, Jordan and Egypt from the air and wonder about their origins. The lines are low, stone walls, usually found as angled pairs, that begin far apart and converge at circular pits. In some places in Jordan the lines formed chains up to 40 miles long.

Were they made by some weird kind of fault? Ancient astronauts?

A new study of 16 of what are called desert kites in the eastern Sinai Desert confirms what many researchers have long suspected: The walls form large funnels to direct gazelle and other large game animals into killing pits. What's more, the kites are between 2,300 and 2,400-years-old, were abandoned about 2,200 years ago and are just the right size to have worked on local gazelles and other hooved game.

"The research shows that the construction of the kite was actually more sophisticated than it seemed before, their use was more diverse than we thought, and the ancients' knowledge of animal ethology was deeper and more intimate than one would think," said Uzi Avner of Ben-Gurion University-Eilat, in Israel.

"We have no doubt at all that the kites were built for hunting, not for any other suggested function."

Avner is a co-author of a paper on the new research which will appear in the July 2010 issue of the Journal of Arid Environments.

For a time, many researchers suspected the kites might be corrals for protecting domesticated animals, but that idea has fallen out of favor as more research has been done.

"The hunting theory is the most accepted, and it appears that for most kites this was indeed the use," said Dani Nadel, another kite researcher from the University of Haifa, Israel. "There are similar structures, either from wood or from stone, on most continents."

Interestingly, the walls of the kites are not high enough to actually block the animals. Rather, they just seem to channel herds in the right direction. Modern wildlife managers in the same region have used a similar approach by laying pipes on the ground to direct gazelles into a corral, Avner reports.

A careful examination of not just the kites but their locations in relation to pastures and migration routes makes it very clear that desert kites were specialized for specific types of animals. Before the 20th century the region was home to several different species of gazelle, wild asses, hartebeests, oryxes, ibexes, dorcas and onagers.

Some kites cleverly exploited low spots in the landscape to lure animals into the unseen killing pit.

"Indeed, the pit would have appeared to the animals in the funnel as an opening in the boundary walls of the kite through which they could flee," Avner reports.

Another sort of kite was found on steep slopes or ridges below a plateau or shoulder of a hill so that animals driven over the ridge would suddenly be confronted by the installation before and below them, Avner explained.

As for why the kites fell out of use, it's still a bit of a mystery, says Nadel.

"They were abandoned, in several south-Negev cases, by the beginning of the middle Bronze age," said Nadel. "This may suggest a climatic change and or a shift in subsistence strategies."

dunno, but the keyhole mounds in japan are for burials.

this just seems bizarre to me - there are thousands of them.

i am not convinced we know what they're for but i think archaeolgoists should get there pronto and study them and it should be a tourist attraction.

fascinating.

reply to post by Kandinsky


where'd you get those photos from?

i thought no one knew about these things. The only other post i've seen about them used pictures off google earth too.