UFOs in Art debunked (including in egyptian art)

First I would like to quote a fellow ats member:

Originally posted by converge
[...]

Bunk, in our context is defined as

–noun Informal. humbug; nonsense.
Origin: 1895–1900, Americanism; short for bunkum
Synonyms: baloney, rot, hogwash, applesauce, bull, hooey. (source)

And debunk,

The term debunk originated in a 1923 novel Bunk, by American novelist William Woodward (1874–1950), who used it to mean to "take the bunk out of things." (source)

Lets take some of the bunk out of the UFO field.



This website explains it very well (mostly with pictures).

sprezzatura.it...



And here are some videos based on that website:

UFO's in Art Debunked
www.youtube.com...

UFO's in Art Debunked 2 (Egyptian art)
www.youtube.com...



Here is one example:

(so called ufos in a painting of the crucifiction of Jesus)



These are actually an anthropomorphic representation of the sun and the moon being witness to the crucifiction, and it is is found in many other ancient art aswell:







etc


For the rest of them, take a look at the website or whatch the videos.

Thank you for this thread. Now I have something to refer people to when they give me crap about UFOs and flying saucers in old paintings.

Sprezzatura by Diego Cuoghi...
What makes you think that we don't know it?
If you say
"Lets take some of the bunk out of the UFO field. "
you are implying that you are going to tell to us something new:
but actually that website is well known here on ATS, and also the debunk of the "alien" of the wall in the tomb of Ptahhotep in Mastabas, North Saqqara, is history.

Example # 1
Example # 2
Example # 3
Example # 4

How does that song says?

Ah

"Hey Teacher leave us kids alone"
Why don't you start a thread about how to use the SEARCH tool? NOw THAT would be helpful.

Yea that sure debunks EVERYTHING doesn't it? That ONE site.......Well I guess the case is closed now, we can all move on to something else...

Funny how no one seems to want to touch the Nuremberg Carving, let alone countless others, with some dating back to the BC era. These are just a few ancient drawings:

Kimberly, Australia(5,000 years old):


This one is from the ancient Sumerians...


This one is from Tanzinia....


This one from Sego Canyon,Utah(estimated 5500 years old).....


This one from Val Camonica,Italy......


This one is from Death Valley........


This from Tassili,Africa(6600 BC)......


Nuremberg carving of "sky battle" observed in 1561..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52fc81faefc6.jpg[/atsimg]

This one from Japan...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ac435cd5f76d.gif[/atsimg]


Related Thread Concerning Most of These UFOs in Art
**Be forewarned, the thread is over 30 pages long.


Granted a lot of the drawings are nothing but misidentifications, but a lot are truly unknown and appear to represent UFO related phenomena, as do ancient text. I really should have not even posted all this since it has been EXTENSIVLY covered recently, but maybe it will prevent you from making such staggering claims erroneously in the future. So you still ready to claim all UFOs in art debunked?? For future reference please do a ATS search and a little more cross referencing before claiming something debunked after viewing ONE website.

EDIT to add: Some of those religious paintings have still not been adequately explained.


**Sources and links in aforementioned thread***

[edit on 8/15/2009 by jkrog08]

[edit on 8/15/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08
I don't tend to accept ancient images as evidence of anything more than natural artistic sensibility. It's possible they represent something otherworldly, yet impossible to rule out shamanic visions, imagination, stories or even doodlings.

One thing that that is almost wholly unaccounted for in anthropology (I've looked) is the reasonable possibility that cave art was a recreational activity practiced by the young. Maybe a way of passing time during severe weather? Of one thing we can be certain...that we cannot draw conclusions from these ancient works! Nuremberg is an exception and very interesting indeed!

Here's one of my favorite Bradshaws that is open to speculation...like a Rorschach almost...even I can't help but see some dang ETs

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1ab5dbff16a0.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Kandinsky


Of course, my posting those images was only to reiterate to the OP that UFOs in art is FAR from being debunked. At the very least, the images and stories associated with some raise interesting questions. That is all I was trying to say my friend.

[edit on 7/3/2010 by internos]

reply to post by internos


I was not replying to your post, only the OPs.

reply to post by Happyfeet


Yeah, it's so stupid to believe that Neanderthal type people knew what they were seeing...

You could have thrown a rock up in the air back in that time, and they would have drawn a picture about it...

reply to post by Brainiac

You show me a neanderthal from 6000 yrs ago and I'll show you how to travel to different dimensions..

The attempt by the OP to debunk this art is a failure. You've proved nothing.

reply to post by randomguy


Since none of us (as far as I know) were their when the artists painted or sculpted their subjects, who knows what was on their minds when they made such art work? Could they have been Picasso like artists who liked to do very weird stuff, or did they actually paint what they saw?

When I see any artwork from the past that does not seem to conform to what we know of today, I either think they were expressing themselves or noting what was seen. Unless we find a way to go back and find out for ourselves, our guesses remain just that, guesses.

wow way to go neener neener you two.. lol
First.. I have to agree with both internos, and Jkrog. Both possibilities are very probable.
The pro point i have is relatively simple. THough Grafiti has been around for longer than we can calculate, and the possibility that the pictures and carvings were done by ancient poltical movements, or ancient kids carving their nitch in the ettiface of time cannot be ruled out.. I think it improbable.. NOT IMPOSSIBLE, considering our imagination, is pretty much limited to JUST BEYOND the technology of today. This works for and against this whole post.
It works FOR the post in the sense that, perhaps the only reason space ships painted in early art works are not spaceships at all. We say they are because our imagination is so limited to what we see. So we see UFO's in the sky and attribute them to unexplainable objects in early paintings.

Now how it works against the post is pretty obvious. Take the renniasance era. I do not care how many art history classes, or humanities classes one takes. Fact is We do not have a guide to explain everything that is in these paintings so we do not know for sure. But when a painting is done in a time where flight.. NOT SPACE FLIGHT, is not even a remote possibility, and the painting depicts things that are more akin to jets we saw in Viet Nam, Crocifissione (Visoki Decani), clearly something was seen to inspire these images. not suns or creative imagination because as I said creative imagination is based off exposure to common technologies. UFO's or any flying machines were not common technologies back then. I am sorry but saying its just creative endevours of free spirited artists is unacceptable. Second. free will was abolished in those times because of the great evil known as the vatican. for one to think of objects beyond that of the bible or daily work was a horrible sin. if it wasnt church oriented it was of the devil. To put detail on the image like.. i dont know.. a star, on a flying object.. is probably their way of saying HEY LOOK ITS FLYING AND IT CAME FROM THE STARS. idiot.

Now the other moronic attribution is the consideration of early cave paintings and hyroglyphics. Problem there.. THAT isnt art. THAT was writing. THat was how they wrote. WE may consider it art.. but its far from art. its a language.

Now ALL of this is tantemount to the morons running about with thier posts of "ABSOLUTE PROOF OF ALIEN LIFE DEBUNKERS AND SKEPTICS CAN DIE" which we see so often. Regardless of how much schooling the page developer has had.. its nothin more than opinion. WHy dont you do some real reasearch and look at both arguments.. and MORE THAN ONE ARTICLE!!!

cheer.s

www.grahamhancock.com...

Nuff said. Everyone read that book and see.

Originally posted by kidflash2008
reply to post by randomguy

 

Since none of us (as far as I know) were their when the artists painted or sculpted their subjects, who knows what was on their minds when they made such art work? Could they have been Picasso like artists who liked to do very weird stuff, or did they actually paint what they saw?

They were indeed painting what they saw (in third eye vision). In fact in my opinion picasso was actually painting what he saw.
Picasso's work is highley esoteric and advanced. The reason his art makes no immediate sense in a lot of cases was trying to describe dimensions that we do not normaly percieve. Hence a face viewed from many angles at once.

All art comes from the astral realms and is conducted by the powerful subconscious. It explains partly why right brained people tend to be better artists and why brain damage can sometimes leave people with amazing abilities for poetry and painting etc...

Thus aliens (astral beings ) and altered states (astral plains) are going to be described by artisits throughout history. The two go together hand in hand because in essence they origionate from the same source.

[edit on 15-8-2009 by Majestic23]

reply to post by jkrog08
I know, I wasn't beefing on you...just sticking my 2cents in there.

reply to post by Majestic23
I think Picasso was more about breaking boundaries in Art and challenging the established standards of what 'Art' was at the time. His Cubist paintings sought to escape the constraints of the Fine Art expectations. Like others, he was heavily influenced by the 'primitive art' of Africa and Spain. He's not amongst my favorite artists, but I wouldn't rush to explain his art as being influenced by aliens.

A good question might be...if 'all art comes from the astral realms,' from where do they get it? Art does come from the subconscious, but it can also be very conscious too. By that I mean, it's possible to create great art with methodical deliberation.

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Majestic23

 

I think Picasso was more about breaking boundaries in Art and challenging the established standards of what 'Art' was at the time. His Cubist paintings sought to escape the constraints of the Fine Art expectations. Like others, he was heavily influenced by the 'primitive art' of Africa and Spain. He's not amongst my favorite artists, but I wouldn't rush to explain his art as being influenced by aliens.

Not aliens as such, that is taking out of context (or putting into a context?) but altered states. He was clearly trying to describe differant dimensions and perceptions. Analysis of his work could easily be more attributed to altered states of consciousness than it could anything such as primitive art (ironically the great amount of primative art is also describing alteres states).

We do know he was mentally unstable to a degree. Funnily enough this is found in many great artisits. Whats relevant? Brain damage specifically to the frontal cortex or temporal lobes causes amongst many other things, perception into altered states of consciousness and the other states of reality! Seems to tie together quite nicely no?

Originally posted by KandinskyA good question might be...if 'all art comes from the astral realms,' from where do they get it? Art does come from the subconscious, but it can also be very conscious too. By that I mean, it's possible to create great art with methodical deliberation.

Actually I think a great purpose of art is to let the true nature of things be known. We didnt have ANY art whatsoever until humans started trying to reach altered states of consiousness on purpose.

I see your point but art to me in its base form is about recording experience more than expression of personal thoughts. So yes much art has very little to do with the astral realms on the surface but art is all about recording what we have percieved so some pecieve the waking world as we know it and others see beyond that and depict it.

Sorry I couldant keep it on artists, I thought ATS was going highbrow for a moment there!

I'm not really into the whole UFO thing, but angels basically are representations of magical beings from the sky or another realm, as are anthropomorphic suns, moons, and stars. Perhaps it was artistic custom to always include a human sun and moon in crucifixion art, but that's because institutionalized Christianity took all meaning out of things like this (nature worship, paganism, etc.) in order to control the message and masses. Angels ARE aliens, however you want to define either one. I can see a common thread running through all this art, mainly going back to nature worship and understanding/observing the cosmos.

So interesting, thanks for the post. This definitely helps lead me to believe that not all historical artwork are actually designed to leave the viewer seeing UFO's, the symbolism used makes a lot of sense especially given the additional sources of similar and more clear works that depict medieval art and the like.

This reminds me how great jkrog08 was. I couldn't have said it better. As for the OP it is speculation whether ancient art and carvings ect were depictions of just fable. It appears to be quite the contrary, i dont know about PROOF but really your claim that some obscure web site debunks the entirety of UFO art is absurd. Sounds like you are trying to convince yourself rather than keep an open mind i remain optimistic and open to the idea because of so much data.

This is one of those "PROOF ET IS REAL" kind of threads with NO proof of existence or lack there of. And on the other side of the discussion some paintings MIGHT be explained but then you would have to have the actual artists input to actually explain what these things are meant to be depicted as. Unless you know a channeler of some medium that can communicate with the likes of to Van Gogh your point is moot.

And this is an older thread and im sure OP has taken the high road by now like many blind believers and proclaimed debunkers before. A reminder of the abundance of art and artifacts out there that depict the SAME objects and beings.