Focus shifts to jail violence against Iraqi women

Its just getting worse. The Iraqi sex torture of men, the recent American beheading, now this. This isn't a war. This is just unadulterated chaotic violence for violence's sake.

ARTICLE

For Huda Shaker, the humiliation began at a checkpoint on the outskirts of Baghdad. The American soldiers demanded to search her handbag. When she refused one of the soldiers pointed his gun towards her chest.
"He pointed the laser sight directly in the middle of my chest," said Professor Shaker, a political scientist at Baghdad University. "Then he pointed to his penis. He told me, 'Come here, bitch, I'm going to # you.'"

The incident is one of a number in which US soldiers are alleged to have abused, intimidated or sexually humiliated Iraqi women.

According to Prof Shaker, several women held in Abu Ghraib jail were sexually abused, including one who was raped by an American military policeman and became pregnant. She has now disappeared.

Most of the coverage of the prisoner abuse at Abu Ghraib has focused on Iraqi men. But there is compelling evidence that several female prisoners, who are in a minority at the jail, were abused as well.

"A female colleague of mine was arrested and taken there. When I asked her after she was released what happened at Abu Ghraib she started crying," Prof Shaker said.

"Ladies here are afraid and shy of talking about such subjects. They say everything is OK. Even in a very advanced society in the west it is very difficult to talk about rape. But I think it happened."

Few women released from US detention have come forward to talk about their experiences in a Muslim society where rape is sometimes equated with shame and victims can be killed to salvage family honour.

According to the New Yorker magazine the photos and videos so far unreleased by the Pentagon show American soldiers "having sex with a female Iraqi prisoner", and a secret report by General Antonio Taguba into the scandal confirms that US guards videotaped and photographed naked female prisoners and that "a male MP [military police] guard" is shown "having sex with a female detainee"....

Other allegations being investigated are that a 12- or 13-year-old girl had been stripped naked in the block and paraded in front of male inmates.

Yesterday Prof Shaker said after her ordeal in February her friends dragged her back into the car and drove off. "I vowed never to talk to another American soldier," she said.

She said the US and Britain should learn from the affair. "You can't treat human beings in this way. I hope they have learned from this."

www.guardian.co.uk...



[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Colonel]

Originally posted by Colonel
Its just getting worse. The Iraqi sex torture of men, the recent American beheading, now this. This isn't a war. This is just unadulterated chaotic violence for violence's sake.
[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Colonel]

That's the funny thing about allegations, they may or may not be true.

Let's not let the our imagination run rampant. There are many political currents working within the war.

I don't put it past some to accuse due to a pay off.

I think we all should remember this:
Fake rape photos infuriate Arab world

These are eyewitnesses not just fake photos.

Originally posted by Colonel
These are eyewitnesses not just fake photos.

People are more easily corruptable than photos.

All it takes is money or pressure. Are there not those out there that would do or pay anything to hurt us?

I think so.

Originally posted by Colonel
These are eyewitnesses not just fake photos.

Eyewitnesses whose accusations cannot be confirmed as they are heresay.

This is what steams me up about you guys. You got MANY GAY torture prison pictures of Iraqis orchestrated by our servicemen. The problem seems systematic based upon Gen. Tortuga AND the American Red Cross. Even tho this is so, reports of regular rape of female prisoners from a legitimate news source is to too farfetched to believe.

WHy do I even try?

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by Colonel
These are eyewitnesses not just fake photos.

Eyewitnesses whose accusations cannot be confirmed as they are heresay.

Aren't eyewitness accounts used in a court of law? As far as I know, an eyewitness account alone can land you in jail for a long time (could be wrong....anyone?). Anyway, this shows that in the eyes of the court, an eyewitness account is much more than just heresay.

Originally posted by Colonel
This is what steams me up about you guys. You got MANY GAY torture prison pictures of Iraqis orchestrated by our servicemen. The problem seems systematic based upon Gen. Tortuga AND the American Red Cross. Even tho this is so, reports of regular rape of female prisoners from a legitimate news source is to too farfetched to believe.

WHy do I even try?

No listen. I understand that something rank is happening over there. To what extent it truely is, I don't know. But while I am angry at what is going on, I fear to extend myself too far before more is known about it.

Logic is the only thing we have to judge reality. Logically, something has to be going on. Time will tell what it is.

For Huda Shaker, the humiliation began at a checkpoint on the outskirts of Baghdad. The American soldiers demanded to search her handbag. When she refused one of the soldiers pointed his gun towards her chest. "He pointed the laser sight directly in the middle of my chest," said Professor Shaker, a political scientist at Baghdad University. "Then he pointed to his penis. He told me, 'Come here, bitch, I'm going to # you.'"


This was taken from a 20/20 interview of four Iraqi women:

Routine Rapes, Human Meat Grinders, Chemical Baths

Al-Suwaij knows firsthand how even young girls were imprisoned for what seem to be trivial offenses. Al-Suwaij says she had a 16-year-old cousin who was beaten and tortured with electrical shocks for having written something against the government in her school notebook.

And if a man is a dissident or if a man writes a letter or makes a joke about Saddam, these women said, authorities would rape his wife or female relatives in front of him.

"Rape is used as a tool to humiliate the woman, but to also bring men into submission," Hussain said. To compound the humiliation, authorities would videotape the torture and rape and send the tape to family members.

Saddam's contempt for human rights extended to his well-documented use of poison gas against his own people. The horror of one of those chemical attacks still haunts Michael 16 years later.

"Children, women, men � vomiting, screaming, crying with swollen eyes. Everybody was � screaming, 'We are blind. We cannot see,' " Michael said. She said she still has difficulty breathing, because of her exposure to the gas.

Al-Suwaij has seen the inside of an Iraqi prison, and she describes horrific scenes. She said she was shown "human meat grinders" in which people were shredded and disposed of in a septic tank, and chemical baths in which people were literally dissolved.

"You cannot exaggerate about these things. People were slaughtered," she said.

All four women met earlier this month with members of the Bush administration.

They raised the issues they feel need to be addressed in Iraq. They say there needs to be a clear commitment to democracy in Iraq, and that the United States and its allies will need to chaperon the transition.



I'm gonna have to agree with KrazyJethro here.....everyone has a price and I just can't believe that any woman in Iraq right now would be happier living under Saddam again.

KJ & Venus , Gen. Tortuga said it was systematic in the congressional hearings yesterday in sworn testimony. American Red Cross has been complaining about it for months. Rumsfeld knew but was angered that there were pics. What else do you need?

[Edited on 12-5-2004 by Colonel]

Originally posted by Colonel
KJ, Gen. Tortuga said it was systematic in the congressional hearings yesterday in sworn testimony. American Red Cross has been complaining about it for months. Rumsfeld knew but was angered that there were pics. What else do you need?

Hmm, I didn't know that.

Give me a bit to look into it.

Be right back.

Venus,

I have to say, you do have a point. But, this kind of "lesser than two evils" mentality is what is going to be the downfall of this country. "Vote Kerry, he's the lesser of two evils".......but, back onto subject. I'm sure these women wouldn't want to go back to SH days, but also I don't think they are too happy with the current situation either......rape is rape whether the "bad" arabs are doing it or the "good ole boy" american.

Ok, after seeing this article from Reuters I have to say that this is a sad day.

I can certainly see this as the begining of something much larger. Not so much internally (although there will be recompense in some form), but majoritively outside America.

I think the focus on us from the international community might just be beading in on our heart. Maybe when we see Sanctions placed on us, we'll see the light.

Fight a war like Israel, and we are doomed to their fate.

Originally posted by MacMerdin
Venus,

"Vote Kerry, he's the lesser of two evils".......but, back onto subject.

I'd rather have a frontal labotomy:shk:

But back to the subject.......again............

I think it is unrealistic to deny the fact that our soldiers are behaving in ways that are unforgivable. I'm sure there are inhumane acts going on all the time but I'd like to see the numbers. Right now there are 5 women being held in that prison. I am surely not going to condemn the US military over the acts of a few soldiers.

Originally posted by Venus

Originally posted by MacMerdin
Venus,

"Vote Kerry, he's the lesser of two evils".......but, back onto subject.

I'd rather have a frontal labotomy:shk:

But back to the subject.......again............

I think it is unrealistic to deny the fact that our soldiers are behaving in ways that are unforgivable. I'm sure there are inhumane acts going on all the time but I'd like to see the numbers. Right now there are 5 women being held in that prison. I am surely not going to condemn the US military over the acts of a few soldiers.

I don't think anyone should condemn the US military unless they fail to act. Those military personal responsible for such crimes should be punished. Anyone part of the cover up should be punished. Period. The US is supposed to be the "good guys" right? There shouldn't be any instances of this kind of behavior. It's sick.

Originally posted by Anung Un Rama Anyone part of the cover up should be punished. Period.

What cover up?

Originally posted by Venus

Originally posted by Anung Un Rama Anyone part of the cover up should be punished. Period.

What cover up?

I mean anyone who tried to keep these events and photos under wraps or did not report these violations of conduct to their superiors.