Missing ship may have secret cargo

reply to post by odyseusz


i think you have offered a reasonable explanation considering the ship is still missing & a total lack of evidence to support movie style plots as yet.
but who knows,
for now it remains an interesting mystery.

reply to post by rmiller196


Actually through treaties Russia, and China will protect/defend Iran should there be a strike in Iran. This is through the SCO, and NAM affiliations.

Iran is Russia's 7th largest trading partner, and China is very dependent on Iranian oil.

Also, it's not cut, and dry to this, or that country. You should look into "The Great Game". It's for real, and is from the time of absolute open empires.

Afghanistan, and that whole region, including the Caucuses, have long been a battle ground in "The Great Game"....

reply to post by odyseusz


Never forget it's an american board Our american/british friends are brainwashed to be biased towards Russia, the supreme evil.

Your perspective is the best so far. But I still have a problem with a ship being hijacked in the Baltic Sea with no one having the slightest reaction for days.
Since the minute it was known a ship was stopped and searched by what would possibly be pirates, the expected behavior from the neighbouring countries would have been to investigate actively this threat and we are told they hadn't.

UK, France, Spain and Portugal are now reportedly looking for the ship.
Interpol issued an "alert" on 08/03 about the 07/24 hijacking.
On 07/28, the British Coast Guards had a contact with the ship in the English Channel.
On 07/29-07/30, the French had a contact with the ship on the passage west of Brittany (rail d'Ouessant).
On 07/31, the Swedish Police had a phone contact with the ship, the conversation remains undisclosed. It's the last contact.

What has happened in the meantime ?
It's not plausible in these waters, pirates or Spe Ops would go unnoticed and untracked.

reply to post by Manouche

Since the minute it was known a ship was stopped and searched by what would possibly be pirates, the expected behavior from the neighbouring countries would have been to investigate actively this threat and we are told they hadn't.

I agree, imo all ports within distance attainable according to KNOTS would've been put on alert.

This ship would've been seen.

Something at high levels is off with this. If it was simply a Russian General as speculated, and the load was stolen from the General to the next guy, or whatever doesn't matter......... The make, and tonnage of the vessel would've been somewhat apparent.

This is being covered up at the highest levels.

reply to post by detachedindividual


A group of people with knives did their thing BEFORE...

We have gotten more vigilant. I'm not sure how much you have flown internationally in the last few years but you cannot evenboard a plane headed to the US until you have been cleared.

Ships must have an approved float plan and then must be verified before they enter our waters. Obviously small boats slip through at times but not a 6500 ton freighter. It would be detained many miles out to sea and would be thoroughly inspected before entering US waters. That is why we have a Coast Guard and why they have become much more important since 9/11.

And this whole idea that lead shielding is going to stop anything is crazy. Lead will stop some radiation but it will do nothing but set off muon detectors and other sensors that detect the heavy nucleus elements in nuclear devices.

Basically, now every single container entering the US is scanned for radiation and heavy elements. Anything suspicious is manually inspected. There are lots of natural cargo that are radioactive - the bricks and tile in your house for example can be more radioactive than a nuke but these are detected everyday and are searched.

I don't for a second think we (anywhere in the world) are perfectly safe. But doing nasty stuff is a whole lot more difficlt now than stealing a boat full of plutonium and dribving it into a port and setting it off. It is extraordinarily difficult to trigger a nuclear explosion even if you have the material.

reply to post by pavil
It's possible that Venezuela's Chavez wants depleted uranium for a dirty bomb for someone, they don't have to be big, just dirty. On the other hand just about everyone and their granny might want one for someone or something they don't like.
As far as I know the US is the biggest user of DU, mainly in ordinance directly to kill and that the use of this kind of ordinance produces a breatheable and toxic oxcide from burning,(similar to thermite?) that ain't going anywhere for ever! DU may be even given away just to get rid.This however, is not a really intelligent use of toxic materials to get rid although that will not stop some people.Thermite is not toxic in itself but combined with what it burns it can be highly toxic.

reply to post by rmiller196

Robert Jacksta, executive director of border security and facilitation for the Customs Service, said 5.4 percent of cargo containers (search) entering the nation's ports in the 2003 fiscal year were inspected. He said that was nearly double the percentage from 2002 and "it's important to note we think this is the right 5.4 percent."

www.foxnews.com...

I'm still searching for something newer, but as of 2004 only 5.4% of ships/containers were searched.......... I doubt that's gone up 94% in the last 5 years.

Also, the article mentions the coast guard not being given the money needed to do a better job.

A ship especially one that can just drop off the radar can make it into a US port. New name, and registration.

There are too many ways for the PTB to see, or keep track of it. 'They' know where it's at.


Just speculation, but any war at this point will make the "Town Hall" meetings go smoother.

Missing Ship Feared Hijacked By Pirates?
RussiaToday w/ video.

Nobody knows whats going on!

Except for Sanchoearlyjones. lol.

This is the 'possible' scenario's that they think may have happened:

Mikhail Voytenko, editor-in-chief of the Russian maritime bulletin Sovfrakht, believes it was a well-organized seizure.

“There are three possibilities of what could have happened to the ship. The first one, Lord forbid, is that the vessel has been already sent to the bottom after the [secret] cargo was taken off it – the cargo because of which everything started. What that cargo has been – we don’t know and I’m afraid will never know now. The second possibility is that the ship is sailing somewhere at the moment with its crew staring down gun-barrels – somewhere it will be unloaded. And the third is that the cargo was reloaded to another ship right there at sea and the “Arctic Sea” ship was abandoned. So now it could be adrift with the crew locked inside and in urgent need of help,” Voytenko said.

[edit on 13-8-2009 by JWash]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by JWash]

[edit on 13-8-2009 by JWash]

reply to post by smurfy

The Tupolev Tu-160 strategic bombers landed at Venezuela's Libertador military airfield and "will spend several days carrying out training flights over neutral waters, after which they will return to the base," the ministry added.

www.cnn.com...

I don't think Venezuela needs anything to do with dirty bombs. I quickly found this article, but there are others which point to permanently posted Russian bomber's in Venezuela, and Cuba.

It ties into the Georgian conflict which ties also into the Middle East turmoil..

We're watching major world events, but don't have a clue how to define, or know what it all is.

reply to post by rmiller196


You suggest that the nation is safer now because of 9/11 and this ship couldn't get through, but what if there is a "drill" or "excercise" on that same day distracting all personnel and diverting attention?

I completely understand what you are saying, but I do not trust the official accounts of what happened on 9/11, and I fully believe that much of it was staged and/or allowed to happen.
Therefore, I can fully see another "incident" happening and the systems in place to prevent it having been tampered with sufficiently.

Either way you look at it, the FAA and the US Military had prior knowledge of what was possible regarding the hijacking of planes. There were regular drills and regular excercises to simulate just that. There were systems in place, built on years of experience of hijackings all over the world...

And yet it still happened...

Regardless of what is in place now to prevent that ship from getting to port, before 9/11 there was a lot in place to prevent exactly what happened, and it still did.

Defences are only useful until someone gets around them. And someone always will, eventually.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


It's effectively 100% now. The low fraction back then was because it took some time to develop and install the right equipment.

The coast guard is underfunded but they do a good job against large ships. Like I said, small boats slip through.

Changing the registration etc would do you no good. You have to have a verifiable origin and destination supported by various documents. Some of that can be faked but some cannot.

If the M/V Pissant arrives in Baltimore with 3000 containers of rubber doggie doodoo from Tripoli every month then it will be a known shipper that might be given lower priority. A new vessel that is unknown will be closely scrutinized especially if it resembles one that is known to be missing.

These things are tracked. It is not easy, though not impossible, to just paint a new name on and drive into San Francisco Bay. If someone wanted to steal a ship just to transport rice and cocoa around Africa I can see them being able to easily change the ships registration and repaint etc. But that is much harder in Europe, US, and the rest of the developed world.

Shipping is a highly computerized, highly tracked industry. Remember, the typical cargo ship could have tens of millions of dollars in cargo on it. There are LOTS of people that keep track of their movement including the buyer of the cargo, the seller of the cargo, insuranace companies for the ship, the buyer, the seller, banks that have issued letters of credit on the cargo, banks that have outstanding loans to the buyer and seller, governments that collect taxes on the buyer or seller, governments that collect customs duties, and on and on. And a cargo might be bought and sold while the ship is enroute.

reply to post by rmiller196


I don't mean to sound up front, but show me the article, or proof that the US is up to a 100%.

Not dealing with ships, but I travel a lot. I've been at the US/Mexico border often, and they don't search every truck. It's lucky if the give 1 out of 20 trucks a good looking through.

Show me where's the proof to 100% searches.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


I'd like to see this too.

Other than passengers on flights and visitors to prisoners, I have never seen an operation involving 100% stop and search.

I find it very implausible that an underfunded coastal security force would be able to even reach a 50% stop and search.

I'm not saying THIS ship would just waltz through, I'm just skeptical of the claim that 100% of all cargo going into the USA is searched.

Originally posted by rmiller196
reply to post by Helmkat

 

How exactly do you get a ship everyone is looking for into the Black Sea? First you'd have to get it through the heavily monitored Gibralter Strait then the Bosforus.

But otherwise you make good points.

Care to comment about the points I made yesterday regading the difficulty of hiding a secret sub in the southern Baltic? Since you are familiar with the area.

Sorry for the delay in responce.

How do you get a ship into the Black sea? pretty easily really, the traffic in and out of the Med from locations all around that area of the globe are very routine. Heck the Frigate I served on (FF-1094 for anyone interested) sailed into the Black sea during the summer of 86. Again there was lots of traffic of all sorts in the entire passage.

Now regarding a secret sub in the Baltic. All the naval players in that area have subs, they are diesel and small, the ambient noise in the Baltic is great and I would imagine sub detection is not as easy as one would think. All I can say is that the typical huge Submarine as we all like to think of would not be so good in that area of the world but a small sub, yep they are there and a clandestine meeting of any sort might not be horribly difficult at night.

Pure speculation of course.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


It's probably NOT 100% by land. I'm talking about by sea.

Depending on where you cross the US/Mexico border you have probably seen the equipment I am talking about and perhaps have not noticed. The trucks pull through slowly and are scanned as they pass. The sensors are not large so they are easy to miss. It is only the trucks that are suspicious or otherwise signled out that are searched.

Plus at the US/Mexico border they are looking for drugs and people primarily when they do the searches. I was talking about something entirely different. I was talking about security against bringing a nuclear device into a US port by a stolen ship which is what this started out being about. That would be extremely difficult to do!

reply to post by detachedindividual


I've got to tell you, every time I fly back in the country there is no real check.

Sure I go through customs, but they don't check squat. My checked bags have never been searched, and I carry a lot of my electronic gismo stuff in them along with perishables from other places...... Yet, my bags are never opened.

I've long thought OMG, it's all a grand stage play to scare the average Sheeple.

I'm no expert, but I can see better solutions for security. Heck all the places in Latin America I've been through search your body a few times over, and ALL your belongings.

The security, and the hype in the states just doesn't jive to anything other than a great big fake, designed to scare.

reply to post by detachedindividual


The containers are scanned for heavy elements. I did not say that every ship is stopped and searched.

I'll look for a source and try to post it tomorrow.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by Helmkat
Heck I'm pretty sure there is a US battlegroup in the Med. right now and believe me if the US was concerned there would be a huge net of ships and planes looking for this ship.

Why would the U.S. look for a ship ??? It hasn't been asked and possibly they KNOW where it is. If anything, they would be looking in the wrong place to throw people off.

Oh I agree 100%

My remark was only in responce to the general remarks made in several replies that Nukes were onboard.

Its very possible that NATO knows exactly where the ship is and are playing "Hear, See and Speak no evil", especially if they would benefit in some way from what is onboard and where it is going. Afterall all of these events happened in or near waters where NATO just happens to have a large presence and if NATO ships along the ships route just look the other way...

I would expect we see the ship lumber cargo to be found floating someplace soon. The reduced weight would increase speed and fuel efficency, extending its range considerably.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Oh, I agree with that! American customs is far more about hassling people and making a good show than being effective. But at the airport they are looking for drugs and economic contraband not dangerous materials.

I have been around the world (including Russia) and have seen far more effective customs in many other places that was not nearly as intrusive.

reply to post by JWash


Hey, chief, I just looked at your article. It had a lot of good information. Note they are searching for similar ships. So they are looking for tonnage, and design of the ship...'Officially'. Considering that, I still lean toward many governments, or power broker's letting this happen knowingly.

reply to post by rmiller196


Okay, your talking about those x-ray machines which scan the truck as it drives out of port??? If so, I've seen those sit idle many times; not scanning.

Still doesn't stop a ship from entering port with a device.