While SETI won't work...

Recently we are told by the people at SETI that our radio communications "bleed out" after only a few light years. Their conclusion is if anyone wants to get an idea of the signals we are broadcasting, they need to be with in a few light years of Earth. Also consider radio communication is likely to be as advanced as smoke signals are to us. While I support SETI (after all we could get lucky), even its optical SETI program fails to take into account technologies we are currently unaware of. The radio "window" won't in my view last more then a century. I want to hear the viewers to this web site, and their thoughts on this.

I don't think they can take "take account" of technologies that are unknown. To notice a communication you must be able to receive the communication. If the alien technologies are sufficiently different from ours we won't even notice communication is occurring. So I think SETI is doing a good job. So long as, for each new method of communication that is discovered, SETI starts a search using that method then they are doing as much as is possible.

reply to post by solusr


I'm not saying SETI is not doing a good job. SETI has to use the technology available, and thats the catch 22. Untill we develope them, new methods of communications will be as alien to us as radio would be to someone in the middle ages. And I can't anticipate we that will lead.

My question is:

Is there a source of energy that doesn't bleed out like radio waves?

If so then maybe thats one way they should be looking into.

Originally posted by QBSneak000
My question is:

Is there a source of energy that doesn't bleed out like radio waves?

If so then maybe thats one way they should be looking into.

As a general rule, the more intense and the shorter the wave leangth the beam of trasmission, (x-rays for example) have a greater possiblity of surviving a transmission from the Earth untill it gets to anouther planet. But unlike radio frequency waves the Earth pumps out in abundance, x-rays are compact and don't spread out, which is step one in preventing the process of "bleeding out". But you have to point your detectors one solar system at a time. SETI has also considered looking for laser light, but the sender would have to point the beam right at us,

If we could create a gavity/magnetic destortion wave that was clearly not natural that may work. Also in the 1960's we launced the Vela satilights to keep track of the USSR's nuclear tests. But it was picking up a huge number of gamma ray bursts. It wasen't the USSR but gamma ray bursts from deep space. There was even serious speculation gamma ray bursts were evidence of an interstellar war. (I'm serious)

I don't know how best to search for alien technological capability that would denomstrate intelligence. But I think there may be very intelligent alien civilizations that never developed technologies, like our whales and dolphins.

I think that you make a valid point about the current technology being obsolete compared to what an alien civilization may have. That doesn't necessarily rule out it's use - after all, there are still several uses for Morse Code, even today.

Other forms of communication, such as lasers, would be difficult to detect, even if it were mistakenly pointed towards our system. They very well may appear to be sampling errors on the equipment used and washed out by the rest of the data.

In the search for extraterrestrial intelligence we should be developing ways to search for bodies such as Dyson Spheres, ringworlds or other such oddities.

Originally posted by QBSneak000
Is there a source of energy that doesn't bleed out like radio waves?

I think you mean 'medium of transmission', not 'source of energy', but the answer is yes: laser beams.

Unfortunately, they are impossible to receive unless you accidentally cross the path of the beam. Or unless it was aimed at you in the first place.

I agree with the OP. SETI in its present form is very unlikely to succeed.

reply to post by arbiture


optical & radio are the only ways we know so we cant search for anything else. Nobody has come up with anything better.

ATA42 could detect an Aceribo sized radar out to 300ly. The ATA350 out to 1000ly. If we dont look were guaranteed never to find anything.

Even a null result is significant as it tells us long lasting transmitting civs are rare.

Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku on SETI and the effectiveness of our efforts to contact extra-terrestrial life.

reply to post by paradigm619


that video must be old becuase we do optical seti and also scan a much wider range than the hydrogen line. Its also annoying how he just goes on about advanced civs, like every single civ in the galaxy is going to be more advanced than us.

he doesnt seem to think about leaked radio signals such as Radar. IF an ET civ is conducting an asteroid hunting program powerfull radar is a good tool to use. Currently we could detect an aceribo sized radar 300ly away. In 10 years that range will increase to 1000ly. If ET use more powerfull radars the range increases further.

I like kaku but only when he talks about things he knows something about.

there is a very narrow window of time that a civilization uses electromagnetic energy for communication.

SETI would do better using all that effort to look for and locate signs of intelligence on planet earth.

I know SETI can't do what Tesla did and even think they are a poor imitation.
If only we could compare notes with the master and we know why that
won't happen. They will come out poorly in comparison.
Not the we know what Tesla did and that is the problem.
A beam to any object in the universe might cause the Galactic Federation
to come after us.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


So you don't know what Tesla did, but you're sure it's great? Wow!

Originally posted by davesidious
reply to post by TeslaandLyne

 

So you don't know what Tesla did, but you're sure it's great? Wow!

Wow only because Tesla said so.
Plus hundreds of secrets he never divulged.
We know because he said what he did but never the details.
Even when Tesla made patents with full details JP Morgan had
not clue what all the parts put together did.
All locked away since his death.
Corporate secrets are worth plenty.
They form the bases of all companies.
I'll say great.
Good enough for me.
Shall we dare the government to open up the book on Tesla
so we can find out.
I think some people know more than I do.
You can disagree all you want and even more if you are in the know.
We don't know Tesla made the free energy UFO but that would be great.
No one is about to tell us are they.
I think there is a Tesla free energy UFO truth to be announced.
Then we can all say Tesla was great and not know anything for sure.
ED: Tesla was known to hear signal from the planets. This means
they are electrically active. This is dis infoed into contact with life
and SETI is wasting the information Tesla found that is directly associated
with his ether drive or so called anti gravity, note that the Illuminati
says there is no ether. Thus what Tesla found, ether and planet
electrical activity has been eliminated even as fundamental discoveries.

[edit on 1/15/2010 by TeslaandLyne]