Photo - Obama's Kenyan Birth Certificate (political fraud)

Originally posted by SevenThunders
reply to post by octotom

 

Actually I think the constitution specifically states that the vice president becomes president if the president is disqualified. I'll have to check this again.

Correct....BUT!

If Obama is found ineligible then we really don't have a VP since our VP is someone that was selected by someone ineligible to run for POTUS in the first place! Therefore that would automatically disqualify Biden since he really wasn't legally elected under the illegal Obama ticket.

That leaves us with the wicked witch of the west Pelosi.

She may have to sit in as POTUS until a special election can be had. No matter what we would have to have a special election to properly replace the POTUS.

Originally posted by netwarrior
I truly don't know what to think. All I have is the exact same thing everyone else has, which is a metric ton of circumstancial evidence.

1. Obama has spent serious amounts of money hiding his records. It's not that he did nothing, he actively decided to hide them. WHAT is in his background that is so dangerous? I'm not even saying that it is the smoking gun of his ineligibility...it could be *anything.*
(snip)
4. The last point I have to make is about Ms. Taitz herself. She has not discredited herself nor the birther movement in any way. If some of you would read before speaking you would see that she submitted these documents to the court requesting a verification of authenticity. No different than an attorney receiving a bloody butcher knife in the mail and asking the court to find out if it's the murder weapon or not, IMHO.

It is very sad that this issue has been allowed to tear ATS apart. Rather than doing intelligent, informed, and impartial research, the thread has degenerated into name-calling, personal attacks, and downright mudslinging.

Everyone needs to step up and get back to the issue at hand.

Thanks for trying to keep this thread on topic. I'm neither a leftie or a rightie so all the non productive name calling was really getting out of hand.

To your point that Obama has spent a lot of money to NOT release his records (even if they may not be required) is interesting. Maybe he's hiding something that has nothing to do with his citizenship.

I agree Taitz didn't say the Kenya BC was real, she asked a court to determine that.
Taitz lawsuit with Cook only asked to see the long form certificate, that's all. Maybe it's NOT required, but seriously if I were president and I had nothing to hide, why not release it and end the debate?

Flyersfan pointed out Bush produced non-required documents:

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
wasn't the Bush national guard thing an issue during the 99 campaign?

I thought it was during his term as POTUS.
But you could be right. Dunno.
At any rate .. he dug out documents that weren't required.
That ended all the speculation.

I suspect there is a reason Obama is not doing the same, but I'm not convinced his reasons have anything to do with citizenship. If Obama were to release his long form certificate, and the document was validated, we wouldn't even be seriously discussing whether there could be a real Kenya BC, but we might be discussing something else, like whatever it is he's apparently hiding.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Originally posted by KnoxMSP
I believe that is incorrect. From what I've read Kenya became a Republic in December of 63, not 64.

edit to add
en.wikipedia.org...

Check out the right sidebar on the wiki article:

Independence from the United Kingdom
- Date December 12, 1963
- Republic declared December 12, 1964

A couple more sources, cause it's wikipedia and all...

www.africa.upenn.edu...

Kenya became a republic in December 1964, with Kenyatta as its first president.

select.nytimes.com...

December 12, 1964, Saturday

NAIROBI, Kenya, Saturday, Dec. 12 -- Kenya became a republic today amid a din of cheers, tribal drumming and cannonading fireworks.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Disinfo Agent]

Well my opinion is that even if these birth certs are fake or whatever, the way Obama has been going about this, sealing up documents, the fake addresses etc etc I think shows that he is hiding something.

What? I don’t know, but there is Obviously something.

Mikey

Has this been debunked or are you guys conveniently overlooking this

David Bomford Speaks

Edit.

[edit on 5/8/2009 by Mikey84]

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
reply to post by BlasteR

 

BlasteR, you're a little late here. This story moving so dam fast, it can make your head spin.

We are no longer on the Kenya BC, there has been a new Aussie BC found on the net that is very similar to the Kenya BC. The new BC is from a man named David Jeffrey Bomford and is believe to be the template fo the fake Kenya BC.

Yes. I've been keeping up on the thread.
I simply pointed out the lettering in the Kenyan BC because it was being pointed out in other posts at the time and because I had already looked for abnormalities along the creases the night before without seeing anything abnormal. Just thought I'd contribute my 2 cents.



-ChriS

It is definitely a forgery..
However, all this selective service info about him seems to be legit..
Check it if you have not seen it.
Obama's SS

Originally posted by canihavemyvoteback
Has this been debunked or are you guys conveniently overlooking this

David Bomford Speaks

You are conveniently not reading the threads!



www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Disinfo Agent

Check out the right sidebar on the wiki article:

Independence from the United Kingdom
- Date December 12, 1963
- Republic declared December 12, 1964

A couple more sources, cause it's wikipedia and all...

www.africa.upenn.edu...

Kenya became a republic in December 1964, with Kenyatta as its first president.

select.nytimes.com...

December 12, 1964, Saturday

NAIROBI, Kenya, Saturday, Dec. 12 -- Kenya became a republic today amid a din of cheers, tribal drumming and cannonading fireworks.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Disinfo Agent]

Yes, you are correct. I stand corrected.

But I don't see why it makes a difference. In the transitional period inbetween those two years it's very possible they had already started using paperwork from the new Govt. I dunno what to believe.

reply to post by oneclickaway

I'm thinking that deserves a thread of it's own.

Originally posted by dragonridr
it ill bet it says under race Caucasian!

Of course it's all just speculation but I've been wondering the same thing. The mom was white and many times when a black baby ( or 1/2 black baby) is born the skin coloring is not black yet. It can take a week for black children to get all their pigmentation.

(I saw that on a TV show so I don't have a medical term for it)

A quick look around the internet brings us this info -

answers.yahoo.com...
wiki.answers.com...

reply to post by Avenginggecko

It just says he believes Obama was born here. So do I.
But it does not change the fact that he admitted to faking birth certificates.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
the thread has degenerated into name-calling, personal attacks, and downright mudslinging.

Trolls will be trolls. Every time you see a stupid, off topic remark with childish personal digs, just hit the alert button. Eventually the mods will slap the little pea-brain upside the head or delete that part of the trolls post.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/04ecadbb0582.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 8/5/2009 by FlyersFan]

I found an interesting link sorry I don’t know how reliable it is but worth having a look.

www.freerepublic.com...

There are now a modified photo of this Kenyan birth cert. going by what I read is that there was a cert on the net. but it got changed.

The changed one is what is posted in the op the changers are very slight and are going unnoticed.

again I don’t know if this is a red herring. Or maybe orlys site got hacked.

On Topic, but in broader context:

Aside from legality issues, here is why forgery is detrimental in general.

The use of forgeries to deceive an enemy or affect public opinion has been a staple of disinformation throughout modern history. Forgeries can be more easily exposed than other types of active deception measures largely because careful analysis can often demonstrate convincingly that the documents are fraudulent.

Still, forgery is effective in at least three ways.

First, a forgery can cast aspirations on targeted governments and on individuals (silent forgery). This can be the most damaging forgery, as the victim does not know that the forgery is being circulated and may never get the opportunity to refute it.

Second, forgeries, when publicized, force the target government to spend time, effort, and funds on refutation.

Third, denial never entirely offsets the damage done as doubt can be cast by repeated reference to the forgery and to its contents.

(I bolded Item #3)

Source:www.encyclopedia.com...

Inasmuch as this is a 'likely forgery' once the topic of HOW is determined we can move on to WHY. Hopefully we can then discuss the ramifications of this issue without being "off-topic" and we can shed light on this charade and ALL of it's participants and motives.

Until then, despite anything presented thus far, my firm beliefs at this time are:

- The Australian document is real and was used as inspiration.
- The Kenyan document is fake.
- Orly Taitz is a shill being backed by deep pockets.
- This document was KNOWINGLY spread on ATS as DISINFORMATION.

Regards...KK

[edit on 5-8-2009 by kinda kurious]

REPEAT

This thread is an ATS Big-Thread with 1795 replies, and subject to more strict moderation.
Please stay focused. Stay on-topic. Minimal or off-topic posts and T&C violations are subject deletion and/or a warning.

Found at the top of every thread page here.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
- This document was KNOWINGLY spread on ATS as DISINFORMATION.

Wrong.

Originally posted by masqua
Stay on-topic. Minimal or off-topic posts and T&C violations are subject deletion and/or a warning.

I've seen a lot of deletions of off topic trolling and only warnings about warnings.
PLEASE... let the warnings fly!


As to who gains from an illegal forgery such as this document appears to be-

- The Clintons would have done it before now. They dont' gain much now. Unless getting Obama kicked out means Biden would be POTUS and Hillary would slide over to be V.POTUS. But that's banking on Biden to pick her and he's kinda' all over the place.

- Alan Keyes? I suppose he could gain revenge for not winning the senate seat but is that worth going to jail over if caught? Only he could say but honestly, he doesn't seem bright enough to pull a forgery off like this.

- The lawyer (can't remember her name). Definately has motive. But she's coming across as wing nut so I'm not sure if she's the original perp or just a useful tool accomplice.

- Most of the hard conservatives are rejecting the whole search for Obama's BC thing. They've been rather vocal about their negative thoughts on this whole affair. Of course, that could be a cover and one (or more) of them could be involved.

I don't think we'll be able to figure it out.
But I"m sure the Obama (in)justice dept will focus in on this.
They'll either figure it out or find someone they want to nail and blame them.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by oneclickaway

 

Because we are tired of hearing about things which are GOING TO BREAK. That's not a story... just ambiguity...

We'll wait until there is something to actually talk about other than so many allegations that never come to fruition.

Well Hunka if you're tired maybe you should take a break for a while. An 8 month investigation into media manipulation on Obama's birth records IS THE story, but if you're tired of gleaning the evidence and compiling every fact available, then what are you doing?

Due to your waning enthusiasm, you've decided that another source of information is abiguity? That's confusing the issue, throwing diversions to distract from possible motive for producing allegedly forged documents relating to one man's birth.

In my very personal opinion, based on everything I've read on this thread (and others), the issue of the alleged kenyan birth certificate has NOT been resolved adequately. There have been points raised and points shot down, but there have been no conclusive evidence forthcoming. Period.

The people who want to know are going to continue until the evidence is proven unfounded. If and when that happens, the issue will rest. Until then, no amount of deflection, insult, ridicule and wordsmithing will change a thing.

For the last time, this issue is about an alleged forged document. Not your political beliefs or mine, not your race or mine, not your dollar value or mine. It is about integrity, honor, trust, and faith in the American system that is being challenged in the larger sense. For people taking it personally, as if their very being is under fire because of this fiasco, each one should send a letter to their beloved commander in chief declaring undying loyalty to him. The rest of us love our country are attempting to discover if it has in fact been taken over in a silent coup.

Originally posted by Hazelnut
, the issue of the alleged kenyan birth certificate has NOT been resolved adequately. There have been points raised and points shot down, but there have been no conclusive evidence forthcoming.

Some of the 'evidence' against it wasn't evidence.
(like a persons name being the same as a kind of soap)
Some of it has strong potential to be evidence against.
(finding the original that this was probably copied from)
We won't know without the original 'Kenyan BC', which of course we can't get.

All anyone can say is that they can't find anything wrong with it, or there are problems that need to be addressed and the problems are big enough that we can call this a 'likely forgery'.

At this point most of us think it's a likely forgery.
But please feel free to debunk the evidence of forgery.
As stated at the start - that's the whole point of this thread -
debunk and/or verify.