What will it take for you to Believe!? (God)

Originally posted by moocowman

Originally posted by pdpayne0418
reply to post by spellbound

 

And you're comfortable with this post as the holder of a degree in Logic? Please let us know from which university you graduated, so we can steer our friends and acquaintances clear should they be interested in obtaining a degree in "Logic."

Peace,
Daniel

Degree in logic ?? What the hell is that when it's at home ?

Did he/she really claim that ? You sure ?

If a person can believe extraordinary claims of the supernatural, only requiring faith IE requiring no evidence, how the hell can the same person get some sort of degree in logic?

Christ that's like getting a degree in fairies surely ?

Go back and read their post. I agree with you.

Peace,
Daniel

blasphemy
in order for you to know if you've commited blasphemy of the holy spirit you have to know what it is.....

If you'd like to know I'll tell you it's simple... Here it goes!
If you have spoken irreverently towards the:
"Holy Spirit (of GOD)"
where does the holy spirit come from? It comes from God!!!!!
It is God's Active Force.... HERE ON EARTH!
Active Force = something that is in progress!

what is in progress ? it is the establishment of Gods Character (as in Characteristics) her on earth and also his KINGDOM which has many mansions which he has prepared. every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess. Remember!!!
We as people love our brothers and sisters, we are all brothers and sisters.... You follow me!!!
The different ways that churches administer to people are all acceptable to GOD... christianity, judiasm, morman, jehovas witnesses, methodists, penticostle, baptist, nazarines, and so on etc... there are differences in administration (their policies) but the same ("LORD")..... and Diversities of Operations but it is the same ("GOD") that worketh all in all.....
These are GODS MANSIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE(" HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD") HIS ACTIVE FORCE HAS BUILT THEM ALL ("GODS MANSIONS") AND THEY ARE ALL PLEASING TO HIM.......
HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT ANY OF THEM!!!! HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH FATHERS ALL CHURCHES AND RELIGIONS AND BUILT THEM ALL FOR THE (BETTERMENT) OF MANKIND.
BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS UNFORGIVIBLE AND IS OUTRIGHT DISRESPECT AGAINST GOD AND PEOPLE (HIS CHILDREN)
MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD REACH EVERY CORNER OF THE EARTH AND ADMINISTER TO THE PEOPLE THROUGH WHATEVER OPERATION REACHES AND SAVES THEM FIRST.

I ask Where is your Hope at? What do you hope for? What cause do you support? What sacrifice have you made to better this world? Even if you knew for a fact 100% that people were wasting their time praying and Hoping and could prove it, would you show them the proof and destroy all they have hope for? or would you incourage it because you understand what its like to be hopeless and would never want someone to lose that hope? Would it make you happy to help someone that is all alone find hope in something even if it was different than what you believe or whatever you do to get through it all? If you truly have been hopeless or lost and confused and cannot find that inner peace because of lifes trials that have some how taken the joy out of everything, and you know that you can never believe in just one thing because you understand more than the average so what do you do next.

Thats a lonely place to be don't you think? Would it not bring you joy to help the Average people find hope in something and change their life forever along with the course of all mankind for the best to eliminate constant suffering...

Would you call that selflessness?

It would bring joy atleast, If there is a God, than at the end of your life you would have an added bonus for pleasing God and being a angel, Saint, good person, whatever title you want to call it, etc.

It's a win win situation isn't it?

HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT ANY OF THEM!!!! HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD WHICH FATHERS ALL CHURCHES AND RELIGIONS AND BUILT THEM ALL FOR THE (BETTERMENT) OF MANKIND.
BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT IS UNFORGIVIBLE AND IS OUTRIGHT DISRESPECT AGAINST GOD AND PEOPLE (HIS CHILDREN)



- geez calm down, you might blow a valve

And I will disrespect who I want to and blaspheme where I want to- but it's not really disrespectful or blasphemy if I dont believe in God or any kind of spirit now is it?

Oh and Beast Belly

You can be a good person without being religious, or having a belief in God- just sayin'

reply to post by InTheBellyofTheBeast

MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD REACH EVERY CORNER OF THE EARTH -----

Corner of the earth ? did you inform Google earth that yawehjesus has been doing a few alterations ?

Originally posted by moocowman


We appear to be communicating a little better and less antagonistically here, I don't have time right now (although I would like to) address all the points you raise.

Yes. I agree. I hope this will be the standard that we maintain from now on.

So the most important question perhaps "What is it that I believe ?" may help you understand where I'm coming from.

It is important fom the point that, if your are argueing the inplausability of one belief, perhaps offering a plausible alternative would help improve the discussion. I find that offering an alternative takes away the impression that one is merely here to attack a particular belief.

Unfortunately I don't actually believe anything but I am in favor of likelihoods in a "creator" paradigm ie I have opinions that are changeable when newer evidence ( presented to me) arise.

It is always wise to keep ones options open. That includes the potential that beliefs that you have been previously dismissed, are infact correct.

Unfortunately, my lack of education does somewhat hinder the language I use to express my ideas, which seems to have hindered this discourse.

I think the nature of some of your posts are not an indication of your intellect, but seems to be an attitude towards certain beliefs. This is abscent now, you have not included in these recent posts.

Yes I do indeed find the particle/slit experiment totally mind blowing my thoughts on this are --

What if - (as I'm not completely closed minded to creation in a loose sense) we assume that there is a creative force.

That creative force is all that there is, "everything" is life and life is everything,all that there is.

Time is an illusion created for this universe in order to differentiate (a frame of reference), or create an illusion of separateness as nothing can be separate if there is only one thing.

I'll just stop you here for a second. Time is not an illusion, all quantum events are reliant on time. There for on the macro level, these things to are reliant on time. Time is essential for all potential to be realised. So it is in fact a mechanism essential to us being.

The particle appears to be existing everywhere, or rather potentially existing everywhere, in that it is where we anticipate/expect it to be. Surely this is borne out by the observer effecting experiments ?

But now you need an observer to act as the necessary mechanism to fullfil potential. Is it necessary? As we are the only known life(well as stated by some circles, but not ATS) were we here to observe the potential for the universe to actually come into existences? This suggest some other consciousness that would be needed to observe the big bang as a potential outcome would it not?

So there would seem to be that only the "now" actually exists and the after (tomorrow or the next millisecond) only exists as a possibility in an infinite choice of possibilities.

In a way, but there is not a infinite number of choices. It is finite. Unless you characterise the Universe as being infinite in nature.

These possibilities only coming into existence (solidifying,taking form, becoming real in our imaginary world ?) according to our expectations/beliefs/fears/.

But this is circular then, the universe would need us first to actually experience the potential of the universe by being present, a universe that created us. Who obsereved the potential for us to exist. If that is the rule, that our consciousness actualises potential.
Also, how do you explain the shared experience of potential. As we would surely all have different fears and beliefs and expectations. Yet we have a shared experience.

If all is life and and the creator (the father) is life then, the father/creator is all that there is, there is was nor ever will be any separation.

IF. IF. IF. If you wish to interpret the"father" in this way, sure. But it is obvious that we are a part of the universe yet a finite aspect of it. A small part of the whole. So in a way we are a separate definable finite part of whole. Another paradox? Some dogma and doctrine of a few religions state this emphatically, which is why alot of people would see the logic in it, although the way it presents this is perhaps very outdated and simplistic.

For any separateness to exist from the creator it would have to be illusion/artificial. Which would surely explain time being an imaginary construct a frame of reference to experience the illusion separateness ?

To use my own analogy - (the only thing my my simple swede could think of as I have a headache so bare with me) Could we be like, thoughts in droplets of water, which are in a tub of water?

We do not know anything other than water ie outside the tub, all is water but if each droplet is allocated a number/identity, then we have the illusion of separateness/difference but were in fact all made up of the same stuff.

If we then have the ability to project our thoughts/desires/beliefs onto the droplets which are all water(the same thing) and allocate them/it numbers/identities/realities/time.

If that makes any sense at all, could I then not ask - Whether Jesus was a real person or not, could the ideas that he is alleged to have be discussing this and he actually meant what he said.

"Whatsoever ever ye ask believing -----"

I understand what you mean, but in a way you are saying, that just a part(water drop) can determine how the whole tube operates. We don't see that in reality do we? If, like you ponder, we can effect our beliefs, thoughts and desires onto the universe to allocate aspects of it, why are we not all recieving exactly what we want? We simply don't see that with anyone so why would it apply to christians.
I think that is where the doctrine and dogma of christians is quite clear. It does not characterise humans as being that, but instead it advocates a spiritual "thought, desire, belief" that will help individuals navigate through, understand and progress from the material existence that they are so limited in.

The only reason the add on "In my name" would be required is to convey some belief into someone who doesn't believe, or just doesn't get it.
"If you can't at this time believe in your own ability, then believe in mine, it makes no difference belief is belief"

So, fundamentally (in this proposition at least) there is no free will, there is only "will", the will of creation/life/the father god what ever label we choose, in action creating the illusion of separateness.

I can see what you mean, but then I believe you should fully test that belief. Ponder what it means for you to exist as an illusion of separateness. Practice what it would mean to relgate your own free will to that of an act of the overall will of the creator using you(and everything you were, are and will be) as an article of separateness. That is all you are. If you have no free will, everything you have done, all that you love, all your dreams and your hopes are merely illusion to fullfill the creators desire to form a sense of separateness with aspects if itself. And in turn all those that have acted in a manner that you think is in relation to you, in that I mean people who love you, your friends and relations, even those who dislike you. No of that is real. No one chose anything. No action was a direct consequence of anything other than the overall will of he creator, fullfilling a need to separate parts within it by illusion of that very seperateness.

There you go there's my thoughts on that for now, I could change my mind in ten minutes lol. But that's the big difference between ideas and beliefs though isn't it, I can change my ideas quite easily, but beliefs ? Well we all know how deeply they are embedded.

Nothing wrong with changing your mind. You believe that you can change your ideas easily.
But by changing an idea, all you do is change what you believe is possibly the truth, what you believe might be the truth or what IF's you can create that you believe are possible. Other people settle on an Idea and place faith in it as the answer to that Idea or Possibility that is truely unknowable to us at the moment.
Just as the answers to your Ideas above regarding separation, time as illusion etc are just as unknowable yet you have faith in them up until you change your Idea. How are you any different except that you change based on the opinions, Ideas or knowledge of others that you come into contact with that then promote a change in your own Ideas and beliefs.
This also happens to people who change their Idea on God or Jesus in that they once did not accept that Idea, but based on the opinions, ideas and knowledge of others they change to accept that Idea of Jesus, God etc.
I agree that beliefs are embedded. Just as some beliefs regarding other peoples beliefs are just as embedded.

Thak you for your great reply, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts and beliefs, no matter the temporary nature of your thoughts.

For me to believe...I couldnt tell you...but undeniable proof is a good start.

Originally posted by infinite
How come the moon, planets and the principle of a hydro centric universe is not mentioned? Qur'an mentions all the above, including "Allah" creating "other Earth's and Heavens"

I am still waiting for my answer to the above question. It has been weeks, I believe. Patiently waiting is not a métier of mine nor a virtue - quite travailing.

i am a believer.......

thats mainly because i am a god.

cheers,
AA

PS-all the blasphemy does not bother me. so, curse away!