Are atheists more intelligent than religious believers? Study suggests such a correlation

reply to post by TruthParadox

More reason for me to doubt people who claim to know.

"Trust Those Who Seek Truth; Doubt Those Who Find It."

Originally posted by TruthParadox
I doubt the human 'ability' to 'know' what is outside our senses.
I don't completely discount it.
But... I've heard a lot of stories of people 'knowing' or 'understanding' or having personal experiences, OBE, etc.
They hardly ever seem to match up.
More reason for me to doubt people who claim to know.

And you should. If you were to just believe me, then that would be foolish on your part. Because anyone can make such a claim. I do not blame you for not believing me, and if you did I would call you foolish.

But if you understand what I'm talking about, then great. I completely agree with the quote welfard put up there. Doubt me, doubt me hard, and doubt me until you have no need to doubt.

What I do not like however is when people call what I have experience ignorant and just my imagination. It was much much more than just what can be imagined. It wasn't just images, it was a completely different perspective on everything.

I "see" the world differently now, but nothing within my 5 senses changed. Physically the world is the same.

It's like when you first realized the way politicians use double speak. Nothing physically changed in how you seen them, but how you perceive them changes. You start to see the manipulation and spin for what it is etc.

Where did I say that?
I'm not denying your experiences or calling them false.
I'm saying that ultimately your perspective is limited, as is mine.

Here's what I know:
1) You don't allow the possibility that you could be wrong
2) As far as we know, anything is possible.

Put the two together...
Doesn't compute.

If you simply realized your limitations, and that you could be wrong, I wouldn't be arguing against you now.

Well if you aren't calling my experiences fake and such, then I can't say too much. But it certainly felt that way. It is human nature for us to deny in others what we ourselves lack.

For me to be wrong and to find out I'm wrong would be like you finding out that math is wrong. It's not just something I "see", it's something I understand. And that understanding goes deeper than I can even express.

But there are things I can be wrong about and so forth. It's just that some things are on that basic level of understanding as math is.

Originally posted by badmedia
Not at all.
As far as I know, anything is possible.
And I have a very small (ok, large) hunch that the same could be said of you, though you may never admit it.
To you, only one thing is possible.
God created this existence and we're part of a whole, experiencing stuff - just because.

Everything is possible. But in the end all things that are possible exist - even if not being observed/experienced.

Now, for all I really know, I could be some brain in vat with some scientist creating reality for me. And in that way my reality is completely dictated by that scientist. And for all we know, maybe that scientist is just a bit of AI on somekids computer, who's picking his nose and laughing as the scientists feels all so powerful controlling my brain in the vat, while having no clue he is just an image on a computer screen. And on and one we can go.

Realities inside realities inside realities etc. The possibilities are endless, and as far as what my current position is within all these possibilities, I don't know. And what we do know has come from observation and so forth. So while in this reality, science is king for discovering the nature of the reality and so on.

But I understand that in the end, where the original source is, and that it is all just really 1 big universe, even with the "multiverses" and there is only 1 true observer of all things. And it is that observer within me that gives me the ability to percieve at all. The stuff in between that - no clue.

It was the fact that I couldn't know what was real or not that I started to put such a huge emphasis on understanding. I realized I couldn't trust what a man told me, even if he was giving me his honest opinion, and that I couldn't really trust reality as a whole. But then I look at math. Well having 1 item in 1 hand, and 2 items in another hand - that goes beyond just any reality. That is a basic understanding, and is therefore a universal understanding. And when I look at the world, I try to see it on that level of understanding.


[edit on 8/25/2009 by badmedia]

I have heard of this study before, being an atheist myself. Although I do not completely deny the existence of a God like figure I would rather meet it than believe it for nothing, but a more religious person does not seek out answers for its the will of God, that is the answer. As to an atheist goes for a more scientific approach looking for answers in knowledge instead of leaning to one answer. Just because they show a lower IQ doesn't mean they don't have the ability to know as much as anyone else. One of the greatest physicist and astrologist to ever live was also a minister, he stated that he knows that God built it and he wanted to know how he made it work. In my opinion the only reason for an IQ drop is simply the rejection of scientific reasoning.

MUAHAHAH!!! I always knew we were smarter!! sorry religious maniacs but we win! XD

Secular humanism is a religion!

John Dewey described Humanism as our "common faith." Julian Huxley called it "Religion without Revelation." The first Humanist Manifesto spoke openly of Humanism as a religion. Many other Humanists could be cited who have acknowledged that Humanism is a religion.

In 1961, the U.S. Supreme Court acknowledged that Secular Humanism was a religion. Nevertheless, many Humanists deny the significance of the Court's assertion. In order to buttress the claim that the identification of Secular Humanism as a religion in a footnote in the Torcaso case is more than mere "dicta," here is a memorandum prepared "[a]t the request of the staff of the Committee on Education and Labor” by Congressman John B. Conlan.

vftonline.org...

I suppose most people are more intelligent than Isaac Newton or Blaise Pascal? What about people who are excellent scholars but believe in a god?

Atheists think they're smarter, but that's not always the case. They're just louder about how superior they are to religious people for not believing in "fairy tales".

Originally posted by pieman

Originally posted by makinho21
I have my whole life to try and understand the mechanisms and workings of the world around me, and there is no distraction from the supernatural, or lazy escape like "meh I can't understand because it's divine". I think not having such a distraction allows one to grow and expand in ways religious folk just can't.

atheism offers as many easy answers as religion. believing unconditionally what science tells you is just as lazy as saying "god did it". discounting the possibility of the divine based on belief is as stupid as attributing to the divine based on belief.

both techniques involve making evidence fit belief, not fitting belief to evidence.

1 difference science provides the who , what , when , where and how

Originally posted by Welfhard
reply to post by TruthParadox

 

More reason for me to doubt people who claim to know.

"Trust Those Who Seek Truth; Doubt Those Who Find It."

U meant doubt those who say they have found it not those who "found it"

"Intelligence" versus "Goodness"; The "intelligent" man developed the atomic bomb, the "good" man developed human rights.

Both are not mutually exclusive, but you see my point. Though I would disagree with the topic of this thread, I believe intelligence comes down to a personal level. Why is there such an emphasis on intelligence being the prime factor behind something? Intelligence equals Godliness? We are conspiracy theorists all of us [if you disagree then, then read whats in your url] The "evil" powers that be are intelligent people, no intelligence does not equal evil, but it gives you more of a capacity for it in my opinion. I would rather be around "good" people, and myself be a "good" person, than be around "intelligent" people and myself be "intelligent".

What is intelligence anyways? We didn't earn it or acquire it on our own, maybe we honed it through education, but more evidence of applied intelligence has led to nothing more than more inventive ways for man to destroy man. So atheists if you want to be smarter, go for it, when your on your life's last breath, your intelligence will be of the same use to you as when you were on your life's first breath.

I can not get why some people get angry at this. This is not stereotyping, it just shows correlation and tendency.If you take thousand random people with above average intelligence, most of them are not religious, but it is likely there are some who are.

This is common sense that a vast majority of intelligent people tend to be not religious. Look a scientists, most of the world´s top scientists do not practice any religion. If you went to college to some technical area and ask around, it is nearly a fact that there are more atheists than relgious people. To be honest, I have never met any person studying a scientific field who is religious and I´ve studied in 3 different universities in 3 different countries around Europe. I do not say there are not any. There are extremely intelligent religious people just as there are extremely dumb atheists, yet vast majority of intelligent people are not religious.

I do not want to offend anyone, but there is just nothing scientific that can prove the existence of god. Historically different religions have been used in order to suppress science and enslave nations. If is very hard to understand reaons why people even believe, as there is no proof. Intelligence gives people usually stronger analytical, rational thinking, critical thinking and unfortunately religion often argues logic.

Another thing that plays part, why many scientists in the past where religious and some are now, is often the fact that they were raised so. For example here, I live in the most atheistic country in the world. Over 95% of the citizens of the local nation are non-religious and the amount of atheists is rising. There are some people who are religious, although mostly these are either old people, foreigners or people who were raised so. I know many people who have shown interest in religion, learnt about it, although I personally know not a single religious person. They know about religion, although that is not enough to make them believe, as there is no proof.

'Anytime there is a thread title with "atheist"..immediatly the average folks here jump on it like a bus ride lol. Just shows what kind of minds dominate this site.

Hrm....According to this....there isn't much of a correlation...if any at all...

upload.wikimedia.org...

There are 13 countries here that demonstrated average IQ's of 100-110...7 of those were less than 20% atheist...
There are 38 countries that demonstrated average IQ's of 90-100...24 of those were less than 20% atheist....

There are only 4 countries that are more than 50% atheist that demonstrated average IQ's in the range of 90-110....while there are 12 countries that are less than 10% atheist that demonstrated average IQ's in the range of 90-110....Sorry atheists....Not this time....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


Official conclusions from the authors of the study you described:

In 2008, intelligence researcher Helmuth Nyborg examined whether IQ relates to denomination and income, using representative data from the National Longitudinal Study of Youth, which includes intelligence tests on a representative selection of white American youth, where they have also replied to questions about religious belief. His results, published in the scientific journal Intelligence, demonstrated that atheists scored an average of 1.95 IQ points higher than agnostics, 3.82 points higher than liberal persuasions, and 5.89 IQ points higher than dogmatic persuasions.[9]

Nyborg also co-authored a study with Richard Lynn, emeritus professor of psychology at the University of Ulster, which compared religious belief and average national IQs in 137 countries.[10] The study analysed the issue from several viewpoints. Firstly, using data from a U.S. study of 6,825 adolescents, the authors found that atheists scored 6 IQ points higher than non atheists.

Secondly, the authors investigated the link between religiosity and intelligence on a country level. Among the sample of 137 countries, only 23 (17%) had more than 20% of atheists, which constituted “virtually all... higher IQ countries.” The authors reported a correlation of 0.60 between atheism rates and level of intelligence, which was determined to be “highly statistically significant”

Commenting on some of the above studies in The Daily Telegraph, Lynn said "Why should fewer academics believe in God than the general population? I believe it is simply a matter of the IQ. Academics have higher IQs than the general population. Several Gallup poll studies of the general population have shown that those with higher IQs tend not to believe in God."[11] A study published in Social Psychology Quarterly in March 2010[12] also stated that "atheism ...correlate[s] with higher intelligence"

en.wikipedia.org...





Another study:

Once again, analyses of large representative samples from both the United States and the United Kingdom support this prediction of the Hypothesis. Net of a large number of social and demographic factors, including education, more intelligent individuals are more likely to be atheistic than less intelligent individuals. For example, among the American sample, those who identify themselves as “not at all religious” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 103.09, whereas those who identify themselves as “very religious” in early adulthood have a mean childhood IQ of 97.14.

Even though past studies have shown that women are more religious than men, the analyses show that the effect of childhood intelligence on adult religiosity is twice as large as that of sex. Remarkably, childhood intelligence has a significant and large effect on adult religiosity even when religion itself is statistically controlled for. So it appears that more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to be atheists than less intelligent individuals,

www.psychologytoday.com...

"Whereas 90% of the general population has a distinct belief in a personal god and a life after death, only 40% of scientists on the B.S. level favor this belief in religion and merely 10 % of those who are considered 'eminent' scientists believe in a personal god or in an afterlife."

A recent survey of members of the National Academy of Sciences showed that 72% are outright atheists, 21% are agnostic and only 7% admit to belief in a personal God.

Source

reply to post by Cabin


Look at the data and come to a conclusion yourself...Don't let the author be the only interpreter of the dataset....

A2D

reply to post by Agree2Disagree


We also have to consider cultures, how religiously the people are grown. If most people were religious, there is a high likelyhood the kids are grown that way also.

If we took a look at academical fields, religious scientists are a minority in the scientific circles.

There are not much studies on the matter, although there is a strong correlation between the education of a person and their religious beliefs.

Originally posted by Cabin
reply to post by Agree2Disagree

 

We also have to consider cultures, how religiously the people are grown. If most people were religious, there is a high likelyhood the kids are grown that way also.

If we took a look at academical fields, religious scientists are a minority in the scientific circles.

There are not much studies on the matter, although there is a strong correlation between the education of a person and their religious beliefs.

I agree with these statements...except of course the last one.

But again, the statistics don't lie....unless you can prove these statements wrong...I stand by my conclusion...

There are 13 countries here that demonstrated average IQ's of 100-110...7 of those were less than 20% atheist...
There are 38 countries that demonstrated average IQ's of 90-100...24 of those were less than 20% atheist....

There are only 4 countries that are more than 50% atheist that demonstrated average IQ's in the range of 90-110....while there are 12 countries that are less than 10% atheist that demonstrated average IQ's in the range of 90-110

Out of the 51 highest scoring countries, 31 of them(or approx. 61%) were less than 20% atheist....true or not true based upon the given data set?

A2D