SHTF? Director of Congressional Budget Office: Federal budget is on unsustainable path...

I can't believe all the people arguing against socialist programs and spending to get out of potential economic collapse.

Honestly, you see the country's disabled individuals as your enemy, and holding you back from being rich? In a Capitalist society, you will never 'run with the big dogs.'
You will never stop running in circles just to catch up.


You Capitalism supporters -- Do you daydream about someday being at the top of the 'food chain', in America? Having a huge house and expensive car?
-- For most, it is the Capitalist pipe dream. 'Conservatives' think somehow that Capitalism is king of all, and will make sure they are better than others. But the brutal truth? You will not stop fighting to pay bills, while funding those at the top.

I will tell you 'Conservatives' a secret ------- Those at the TOP did not get there honestly, and without stepping on everyone they've ever known, along the way.

reply to post by LeeannaHolland


You are free to think how ever you like, but I for one, am a firm believer in "The American Dream".

Saw it done with my parents.

And I'm seeing it with me and my wife.

The very idea of rolling over and playing dead, is abhorrent to me.
Good luck with that big house and big car in your socialist dream

reply to post by mikerussellus


"The American Dream" is becoming more rare, from what I am seeing. Or, rather, people feeling and living it.

The truth is, we are in a different time now. The "American Dream" has become women working instead of raising the kids (like posted before). It has become Americans losing their homes and becoming homeless, with their kids and all. Job losses are rampant, and people are suffering. Leaving things to continue as they are will only continue to get worse, and allow for more to suffer. You living the American dream happily, while KNOWING fellow Americans are suffering, seems common... and it bothers me, personally.

Continuing along this path of allowing a few rich people to siphon the wealth from everyone else, isn't my ideal path for America.

Because of a few individuals siphoning most of the wealth to themselves, many are suffering and becoming hungry and homeless. How do you feel about that?? Is it your ideal to just weed out the 'undesirables', so that few may gobble up most of the resources?


Do we need many Americans to die so that few can have all of the wealth? As we stand now, there are probably too many of us, for your liking.

I am not trying to be mean, just sincerely curious....

"The American Dream" is becoming more rare, from what I am seeing. Or, rather, people feeling and living it.

I disagree. The only reason it looks like it is becomming rare is, perhaps, because there aren't people willing to work for it anymore.

The truth is, we are in a different time now. The "American Dream" has become women working instead of raising the kids (like posted before). It has become Americans losing their homes and becoming homeless, with their kids and all. Job losses are rampant, and people are suffering. Leaving things to continue as they are will only continue to get worse, and allow for more to suffer. You living the American dream happily, while KNOWING fellow Americans are suffering, seems common... and it bothers me, personally.

People, for the most part have chosen to fail. They moved into houses they knew they couldn't afford. Does everyone need cable? A microwave oven? A cell phone? Nope. People choose to live beyond their means. And I am happy. My kids are safe and well fed. My wife works (when she feels like it). I work. I work hard. Why should I feel guilty?

Continuing along this path of allowing a few rich people to siphon the wealth from everyone else, isn't my ideal path for America.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't begrudge the wealthy. They worked hard, invented, created, built their wealth. Why should they not enjoy it.

Because of a few individuals siphoning most of the wealth to themselves, many are suffering and becoming hungry and homeless. How do you feel about that?? Is it your ideal to just weed out the 'undesirables', so that few may gobble up most of the resources?

The poor are not poor because the rich are rich. That is a false correlation. I feel for the poor and the homeless. I actually posted something earlier today, I have given more in charity than Obama and Biden COMBINED! And I have nowhere the income that they have. When my son was born, I worked 60 hrs a week THEN worked another 6 at a bar/restaurant washing dishes so my family could eat. I am no one special, if I can find work, so can most.

Do we need many Americans to die so that few can have all of the wealth? As we stand now, there are probably too many of us, for your liking.

Too many poor for my liking? Again, I give to charity. When I want more, I work more. Our whole society has become entitlement minded though. It's gimme gimme gimme. Everyone grows up now, expecting a handout. Tough sh#t !!! The American Dream is only avaliable for people who are willing to sacrafice, and work hard to obtain it. It's still there. It never left. WE (as a culture) have left IT! Obama can try all he want to redistribute the wealth. Make a whole lazy culture even lazier. But there are those of us who will spit in the eye of any SOB who tells us we can't do it. Can't make it. Can't be it!

-sounds almost like a sermon, sorry, but you touched a nerve. I do hope, though, that this helped answer your question.-

[edit on 17-7-2009 by mikerussellus]

Originally posted by LeeannaHolland
The problem is.... the guy posting this on his blog, is unfamiliar with the current environment/economy. He is used to old ways, old days. This is new, uncharted territory because we have never done it before.

He is old school, is what I am saying. There is an agenda, but it may not be stark and bad.

We are heading for something new. He will have to wait and see, like the rest of us. But I doubt Obama and the current administration is intentionally trying to run us into the ground for population control or whatever else you guys claim they are trying to do.

New things ahead. This is not relevant.

This blows my mind, talk about a weak argument. So you are saying ignore history, ignore what the projections say, it will all just work out because these are different times. So our economy is suddelnly going to grow faster than ever in history making this problem irrelevant???? Cognitive dissonance at its best.

You actually think the future is more promising than our recent history? All manufacturing is leaving, our education system is terrible and getting worse, the baby boomers are retiring, our elected officials don't even read the bills before voting on them, and China is becoming the dominant world power. Really I don't see much of anything positive about where the country is headed.

Wake up Obama and congress are sending us to oblivion and all you can say is I'm sure they aren't intentionally doing it. Look ignore the reasons behind the breakneck spending if you want to - but understand this, it is destroying the economy, and every citizens future.

reply to post by mikerussellus


Thank you... You have answered my question, for sure. I know how you feel. I really do.

A side of me is more Conservative than the so-called "Conservatives" that are and have been making the decisions in this country. I do believe they are "Neocons" -- All of them.

I do not feel that this recession, and all the people losing jobs and being able to replace them, is caused by people becoming lazy. There is one little place where we differ. I have personally watched people I care about, lose jobs and been unable to find another one -- Including low-paying ones. It really is worse in some areas than others.

I can see how easy it is in today's society to lose everything. But I also see bankers and other corporate interests siphoning the wealth. I mean, with record job losses lately, it seems the wealth must be going somewhere, right? Record-breaking amounts of taxpayer dollars going to corporate interests and bankers. Is that right, or should the free market allow them to go under naturally?

I commend you for donating to the less fortunate. I just hope that people will consider that maybe the climbing number of people losing jobs and homes, isn't down to laziness on the rise. This one migh really be out of our control.

Sorry to rant. People are suffering, and I feel something needs to be done. Freebies and hand-outs will not help this country in the long-run. But money must be spent, to keep people employed.... Things must change, because I do not feel like this recession (depression) was created by Americans becoming lazy.

reply to post by proximo


I can see where you are coming from, but perhaps the current state of things... perhaps your economy has been, and is, BROKEN !? Perhaps it is already broken, and needs to be replaced by something new.

No need to put down your thoughts, but I think things are different than you see it.

If Obama decided to reset our economy and start all over with something new, then this blogging dude's comments will be irrelivant, don't you think?

reply to post by LeeannaHolland



If you honestly feel that people need to be employed, then you'd have to agree that the people HIRING, need to have the funds to do so. Lowering taxes would go a long way in allowing companies to free up capital that they have set aside and use that to hire people.

More people working. More taxes can go to the government.

This does not have to be a welfare state.

Obama and co. though are doing their damnest to make it one. Redistributing the wealth is just another term for taking it away from the hard working successful and giving it to people who don't even want to work for it.

I had to move me and my family 1500 miles in order to find a job that would allow my wife to stay at home with our kids.

If the jobs aren't where you are, go to where the jobs are.

It all depends on how much you are willing to work and sacrifice to make it work.

reply to post by LeeannaHolland


ya know, I'm sorry, but this argument of socialism/capitalism is getting old...

it's not the system, it's the people using the system!!!

I grew up in a society that was a purer form of capitalism, and well....the divide between the rich and the poor was no where near as big as it is now! my doctor didn't live in a big mansion in the rich section of town, he lived up the street from me, ya in a nicer house, but well we were poor, what do you expect? but their lifestyle wasn't that outrageously different than our own.
now our capitalism is mingled in with a little socialism, and it seems that the greedy capitalists have found a way use the system to increase their wealth tenfold.
they think of nice ways to help the "poor" and they stand at the backend of these programs and rake in more money that my old doctor could ever dream of! after all, my doctor knew we were poor, if he wanted us as his customers, he would have to keep his fees within a reasonable range to accomodate us! now days, who cares how much the doctor, hospitals, ect are charging, ain't no patient gonna be concerned with it (unless of course they are too rich to be considered "poor" while being too poor to be considered well off enough to afford the outrageous insurance premiums...everyone else, even those here that are griping about us becomming socialists....aren't really caring about how much their medical bills are costing, since well....they are taking part in some socialist program (yes, the concept of insurance IS SOCIALISTIC), and the bills are being paid with money that has been contributed by a group of people. only now, we have the people managing these pools of money making sure they get their share of the cut also....which for some of the upper management in the insurance companies is up around a million or so dollars a year, profit for the shareholder, ect. ect...

the more hands the money flows through to obtain a commodity or service for the "poor", the more the cost will be!! and let's all face one fact...when it comes to healthcare in the US.....probably 90% of the people ARE POOR!! there is no way that they could pay their own healthcare bills without relying on a source of money pooled somewhere, either an insurance company or government agency.
obama's plan is flawed in that it just pushes us all into the pools, instead of pushing for something that we can all obtain independently without relying on these pools....
independence=freedom, freedom to chose your doctors, and how that doctor will treat you...
dependence takes that freedom from you, places it into the hands of the government, or insurance company...they get to chose the doctors you get to see, the treatment that you will get...
and of course, as we are all seeing....your personal lifestyle choices!!!

personallly, I don't see much difference between it being an insurance company making these choices, or the government.....either way, it's a loss of freedom on my end, and I am just a slave to the system....

but, one thing I will tell ya, before yous start taking those freedoms away people on the basis of "it's increasing your healthcare costs" you best make danged sure that their healthcare is being taking care of!! which is what many of yas seem to want to do...control their lifestyles, gripe about what they are eating, about their smoking, about their lack of excercise (and heck, you don't even know the people you are griping about!!)...but, well, you could care less if they healthcare needs are taken care of or not!

we invade countries in the name of freedom, why are we working so hard, coming up with so many different scams, that will serve to remove that freedom from our own citizens?

reply to post by mikerussellus

bush lowered their taxes, I remember.....what we got in return was a grand exodus of jobs to china and the like, they didn't use this money to create jobs here, where it would of mattered....even if it did cost a litttle more (which I think is just a myth, since well, you have to include the cost of shipping all the crap back here to sell to us, who well, at the moment, can't afford to buy much of anything. )
heck even companies who take advantage of programs like NY's empire state, whatever...cheat!

Originally posted by argentus
'bout time somebody said that, don't you think, Warren? I think it's far beyond 'unsustainable'. Even without cap & trade's anticipated national kick in the pants, it really seems closer to 'terminal' to me.

We'll talk again around October, if we both still have the wherewithall to have internettage. I'm not really a gloom-n-doomer. See patterns.

I'd really, really like to be dead wrong.

It certainly doesn't take a PHD in Economics to see the train wreck coming. How many more "responsible" people, whatever that means, does it take to highlight the obvious brick wall we are speeding into?? it seems for every common sense person that questions the sanity of our economic policy, there are ten peoplesaying it's our only hope. Of course, they're on the payroll, so what do you thoink they'd say.

I have never seen our economy in such bad shape, where people keep saying, "how long can this go on", and somehow, it keeps moving, mostly backwards. The law of gravity will take over soon, and no ammount of propping up will be able to stop the fall. It will be soon, and October, a traditionaly lousy month for the stockmarket, sounds like a good bet.

Like the above quoted post, I'd love to be wrong, but guess what, sooner or later, one of us is going to be dead on. it won't be nice when that happens.

Originally posted by LeeannaHolland

Continuing along this path of allowing a few rich people to siphon the wealth from everyone else, isn't my ideal path for America.

So THAT'S how they got rich .. "siphoning" wealth from people! Got it, thanks. It definitely had nothing to do with starting businesses that create goods people voluntarily spend their money for. Nope, that's a capitalistic smokescreen .. they're actually stealing.

What's sad is that there are a disturbing number of young people who are mushy-headed enough to believe this kind of "down with the wealthy" nonsense.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Cutting subsidies and "hand outs" if you want to be Darwinian about it -- is the best way to crash the economy during a recession.

Really? So the last thing you want to do is give people back their money during a recession? Government is better at spending money on you then you are? It takes a special kind of stupid to believe something like that ..

Really, when you boil down the arguments against capitalism, it becomes a quibble over morals. Al Gore thinks its moral to protect the environment at nearly any cost. Obama thinks its moral to provide everyone with free healthcare. Bush felt it was moral to "liberate" people in Iraq.

The socialists, environmentalists and imperialists have more in common than they think .. they're just thumping different Bibles. In the end, its our freedom that suffers ..

by enslaving our grandchild to pay for our party today.

It's becoming more apparent by the day that WE may be the grandchildren you speak of.

Originally posted by LeeannaHolland
I can't believe all the people arguing against socialist programs and spending to get out of potential economic collapse.

Remind me again - how is spending the money you took from people supposed to help them during a recession?

Honestly, you see the country's disabled individuals as your enemy, and holding you back from being rich? In a Capitalist society, you will never 'run with the big dogs.'
You will never stop running in circles just to catch up.

Tell that to the guy in Africa who would kill for running water and electricity.

Tell that to the guy who started a company in his garage and now employs 1000 people.

Just because YOU lack the gray matter to "run with the big dogs" doesn't mean nobody else can. Thankfully, there is a world of people smarter than you who can build computer chips and run power plants. And what do you do? Piss all over the system that makes it possible .. if you don't like free enterprise, you'll love it in North Korea.

You Capitalism supporters -- Do you daydream about someday being at the top of the 'food chain', in America? Having a huge house and expensive car?
-- For most, it is the Capitalist pipe dream. 'Conservatives' think somehow that Capitalism is king of all, and will make sure they are better than others. But the brutal truth? You will not stop fighting to pay bills, while funding those at the top.

Who doesn't dream about improving their lot in life? What's your point? You fed yourself today, and in that respect you are just as greedy and self-interested as the worst of the worst.

A can of tasty baked beans is $0.80 in most parts of the U.S. Nobody forces people to live beyond their means. Nobody forces people to have kids when they shouldn't. If you f*ck up, the most vile, reprehensible thing you can do is force people to subsidize your stupidity.

I will tell you 'Conservatives' a secret ------- Those at the TOP did not get there honestly, and without stepping on everyone they've ever known, along the way.

The same way you chose to feed yourself today instead of donating to someone else in more dire need. What makes people like you so despicable is that you'll curtail my freedom to satisfy whatever moral inclinations you have.

reply to post by warrenb


The Obama Administration is either trying to ruin the economy or they are stupid.

I don't believe they are stupid.

reply to post by LeeannaHolland


Out of control spending causes economic collapse every time.

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[edit on 6-8-2009 by 12m8keall2c]

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[edit on 6-8-2009 by 12m8keall2c]