America's Christian Founders: 1 ... Media: 0

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
If God chose to include parts in the Bible about voting, and government, then yes, it would be in there.


Yes, I'm lost on your point.

If, as you said, "America was indeed founded on, and with, Christianity," this implies that the US is founded on Christian doctrine. Christian doctrine comes from the bible. So, if the US was founded on Christianity, then our system of government ought to be present in the bible. Can you point to any passages in the bible that have led to our system of government?

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
There ya go again lumping one person who "claims" to be a Christian into the entire pile of us.


You can't do that unless you stereotype everyone -

Um, I was quoting the bible? You don't believe those passages?

reply to post by CRB86


I did not know that Darwin was on yall's money - that is a shocker. I guess I will mark Britain off of my vacation spots.



America has a new penny I've noticed it circulating....... so I guess this is the start of more changes that I'm probably not going to like.

Insert sad smiley again.

reply to post by suomichris


The Bible is chock full of references to government - and prophecies involving those governments. Israel, as a country, plays the crucial role in prophecy which one could say that politics would be involved in that coming to pass.

Is that what you were asking about?

Originally posted by suomichris

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
There ya go again lumping one person who "claims" to be a Christian into the entire pile of us.


You can't do that unless you stereotype everyone -

Um, I was quoting the bible? You don't believe those passages?

I was referring to you bringing up George Bush - who claims to be a Christian. Just wanted to let you know that he isn't the Christian's "Leader" or "PosterBoy" or anything.
In fact, most would probably not even claim him?

reply to post by suomichris


Yes, the God of the Bible has a horrifyingly high body count. I hardly see how the Bible and its believers are a good model for peaceful behaviour.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty


The guy isn't a preacher - he's a historian - but the link to his website (wallbuilders) is included in my first post.


If the video is boring to you then you have probably never read the Constitution either?

Again - if anyone wants the hard copy proof, watch the video - hard proof that our country was founded on Christian beliefs.

ok, so i posted founding father quotes that go against what was used in the video.
are you willing to discuss quotes in either? there is no hard proof whatsoever in the video, unless one considers all the thoughts and quotes by our founding fathers. it's east to take one out of context and run with it, while ignoring so many more that go against ones beliefs.

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by suomichris

 

Yes, the God of the Bible has a horrifyingly high body count. I hardly see how the Bible and its believers are a good model for peaceful behaviour.

are you sure, maybe it's high time for another crusade.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
The Bible is chock full of references to government - and prophecies involving those governments. Israel, as a country, plays the crucial role in prophecy which one could say that politics would be involved in that coming to pass.

Is that what you were asking about?

Honestly, I am baffled that you can not understand what I am saying. Let me lay it out.

Of the features of our system of government, absolutely zero come from the Bible. Period. There is no precedent in the Bible for trials, or human rights, or "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." There is no mention in the Bible of a separation of powers, or two houses of congress, or a balance between direct and proportional representation, etc., etc., etc. If we were a "Christian Nation," we would have a system of government based on Christianity. But we don't. We have a nation which is founded on a modified version of the Roman republic (created by pagans, by the way).

Just because some of our founding fathers were Christians (although certainly no all) does not mean we are a Christian nation. It means that some of the founding fathers were Christians. If I am an atheist and I make a sandwich, I didn't just make an atheist sandwich. It's just a sandwich...

The founding fathers were diests and athiests and Masons who pretty much despised Christianity as a failed tyranical religion that turned Europe into a cesspool of war and ignorance.

Thanks for wishing that hypocritical, vague, self serving instanity on us...but no thanks.

I suggest you get a puppy instead of trying to turn all of humanity into sick ones!

And that is the key to this conversation; understanding the word and concept of Deism.

Deism is a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without a need for either faith or organized religion. Deists generally reject the notion of divine interventions in human affairs - such as by miracles and revelations.

...

Critical elements of deist thought included:

Rejection of all religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
Rejection of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious "mysteries".
Rejection of the Genesis account of creation and the doctrine of original sin, along with all similar beliefs.
Rejection of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other religious beliefs.
Rejection of belief in the Trinity and/or the divinity of Jesus.

en.wikipedia.org...

Sp yes, they believed in God, but they were nothing like the 'religious right' of today. To the world of that day, Deism was the parallel of Atheism of today. Deism was blasphemous to many.

But, also, these men were the movers and the shakers, and not Joe Farmer the common man. There were plenty of evangelistic folks among the later.

But the common theme that held them together was escaping the tyrants of Theocracy to seek religious freedom.

Originally posted by rubbertramp

Originally posted by DaisyAnne
reply to post by suomichris

 

Yes, the God of the Bible has a horrifyingly high body count. I hardly see how the Bible and its believers are a good model for peaceful behaviour.

are you sure, maybe it's high time for another crusade.

Ah yes!
It was Charles Mackay in "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" that estimated the European death toll from the crusades to have been around 2,000,000. And Aletheia in The Rationalist's Manual estimated about 5,000,000 total.

Very peaceful indeed.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

I wish Christian minded people were the only ones in Congress - this planet wouldn't be in the mess it's in now if that were true.

Sigh.

Going to have to call BS on this one, nomorecruelty. most people in congress ARE christian minded, as nearly all of them claim christianity as their primary religion of choice, and it's been that way FOR MANY YEARS

So, you are absolutely lying when you claim this world wouldn't be in the mess it's in if they were. This country is in the mess it's in BECAUSE they have been in congress.

To use your own logic.

Sigh.


P.S. you probably already KNEW that, and are just trying to flame-bait by your statement. That's okay. I expect it from you by now.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by CRB86

 

That was not the intent of what 'was' written either. I attribute that 'rumor' to orgs like the ACLU - and it worked as most of society goes around like zombies mumbling over and over ....... 'separation of church and state....... separation of church and state..........."

If you do your research, the phrase "seperation of church and state" was in a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a baptist preacher.

Not the ACLU

Nope, it's not in the constitution, nor the bill of rights. It was, however, stated by one of the founding fathers, who DID write the constitution and bill of rights, and follows the spirit of what those documents entail.

Actually, if the title of the thread is strictly conformed to, the America's Christian foundation begins with the Mayflower Compact.

I don't think anyone can argue that the country wasn't founded in God.

There is only one other country existing that can lay the same claim.

I'll give you a hint: It's in the middle east.

Incidentally, it can't be argued likewise that our founding documents are based primarily in natural law.

Where y'all think the origins of natural law are found?

That said, the Constitution of the United States conveys the unalienable right (where does that specific term find it's origin?) to freedom of religion.

In other words... Natural law was the primary inspiration for the founding documents.

EDIT:clarity


[edit on 14/7/09 by cbianchi513]

reply to post by Jomina


I still disagree - I believe there are people in Congress who 'claim' to be Christians - but certainly aren't following a Christian doctrine with the choices/bills they are passing.

Maybe someone somewhere has conducted a poll on Christians on the hill, I don't know but it would be interesting to know the tally.

reply to post by Jomina


The phrase still isn't in the Constitution as most people have been brainwashed to believe - and it's the ACLU, and orgs such as them, that have worked overtime to try to push that lie onto the general public and media.

The same as they are trying to do with the gay propaganda - they work on the notion that if they say it enough, eventually people will believe it. And they count on people not checking their facts and sources.

reply to post by cbianchi513


Freedom OF, yes, not freedom FROM - as the ACLU and other orgs have tried to convince people of.

People go around misquoting that entire issue and never even check the Constitution to see what it actually says.

Those are the people that the nwo are going to love.

Originally posted by nomorecruelty
reply to post by Jomina

 

I still disagree - I believe there are people in Congress who 'claim' to be Christians - but certainly aren't following a Christian doctrine with the choices/bills they are passing.

Maybe someone somewhere has conducted a poll on Christians on the hill, I don't know but it would be interesting to know the tally.

For the current Congress....

en.wikipedia.org...

"Protestant denominations have held a large majority throughout congressional history, reflecting American's traditional demographics. 58.0% of seats are currently held by members of Protestant denominations. One member of the current Congress belongs to the Quakers, Representative Rush Holt.

A record 45 Jews currently serve in Congress."

reply to post by nomorecruelty


I agree... and I'm right there with you. In fact, star for you!

I'm also aligned with your belief about how the media and the "civil rights" groups are constantly attempting to push agendas down our throats via repetition.

Seems we're on the same page.

The Constitution of the United States must be upheld, as it is written, not as some kangaroo court interprets. It is not a static document.

The simple FACT is, the Constitution is based in natural law.