Who controls the government, & how they have taken it from the people.

Please feel free to verify material and sources. I have and if you don't agree with said material or sources, I insist others be presented.

The government of the United States of America was set up to have a peaceful revolution every four years (It's called an election). Now while this is true to an extent with the "President", other officials have not been able to restrain their selfish control.

Now before going into who, I must insist on the why. They may feel no one else can do the job, ie no one else is good enough. (ego)

They were bought, and put into position much like a mole has been. (money)

As part of a larger organisation/s these people are members of many committees and select groups. Being active unwittingly or knowingly they have delved into the global arena of politics. (power)

Now, exept for a few chosen positions in the Local, State and Federal government systems, all officials were intended to be replaced after a set number of years. This encouraged the people to participate and be active in their local, state and or federal seats.

When the idea of a goverment for the people, by the people came into reality, and was drafted and accepted. The authors emplaced a key that would aways keep the people in power. They never could have foreseen later generations ignorance and taking in vain of those glorious proclamations.

So how is it the government has been hijacked and corrupted by the wrong people?

Plain ignorance and simple laziness. The truth hurts, but not as much as what happens when it is concealed, distorted and lied about. We each do that to ourselves, worse each other...

Acknowledging such and correcting it the only acceptable action. We are responsible and held accountable for our actions. Are we not?

Then how is it people same as you and I, are not?

The same people who have been inside our government for almost half a century!?


Who could that be you wonder, how about Donald Rumsfeld or his ole buddy Richard Bruce "Dick" Cheney and that George Herbert Walker Bush, you getting the idea?

ATS first openly looked into the idea of others who also stayed in government as a career or otherwise. It is called the Government Revolving Door Research Project and what is covered there only begins to scratch the surface.

Why do I feel this is important, and why you should too. Because these are the same people who have been in government since our grandparents were our age.

Because these are the same people who have been doing the wrong things over and over again. The debt, foreign relations, the wars and "conflicts" since then.

Because, they are still doing it and have brought in others who are apart of their agenda. Obviously it is not in the peoples favor, or do you honestly think it is?

Why do I feel this is important, and why you should too. Because these are the same people our forefather warned us about, revolted against and re-established a place for the people, by the people, we the people.

Still the same excuses and questions, what can we do about it, they have all the power and are the government...

Ignorance and laziness!!

All of it, there are no excuses for either and we all know that much.
The people are the government, hence why and how States can seperate from the federal. It is only allowed the authority the people give. The Charters of Freedom are preserved history of the peoples gift from the Founding Fathers. They gave the people what we were meant to preserve and protect, support and defend.

The America which was handed to us, has been stolen and abused by those who are willing to betray the original precept of the American ideals layed as a cornerstone by Washington and others.

The fall of the USofA will not come from outside, but destroyed from within.
We will have been complacent, ignorance and laziness. The choice is up to each of us, we can deny the ignorance and challenge each other while working together. Or argue, hinder and not.

The future can be made better for our children, and theirs. That canbe ensured by learning from our mistakes as a Nation and not allowingit to recoccur, to th best of our abilities. And the best is not ignorance or laziness.

Self induced or not, both ignorance and laziness has brought what we are living through to fruitation. Instead of seeing the national debt and saying, "My that's not looking good, screw it some one else can fix it.", we should have had the stance to say " $#!T that's not cool, how can I reverse this asap!".

Instead of selling out and out sourceing the economy and industry, it should have been left alone when it worked as a free trade market. Not privateized and commercialised.

Instead of poking our political noses into others foreign affairs, we should have minded our f'n business. If they needed us they would ask.

If the state of affairs doesn't concern you, then I can not help those who refuse to help themselves.

If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.
~Sam Adams

This thread/discussion is for those who feel the higher calling to action, via denying the ignorance and laziness. To that lot my hat is off, and I implore such to join together and perhaps we can sort it out and find a mutual solution.

I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every
form of tyranny over the mind of man.
~Thomas Jefferson

How soon we forget history ... government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
~George Washington

Founding Fathers Quotes

We have the option to do nothing, or some thing because of them. Let it not go in vain, make a better future. For the people, by the people, we the people, owe it to our childrens future.

Together we will.

United We Stand, The Rest Is, Not An Option!

Peaceful revolution every four years, you say.

One need not look further than Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinney, John F. Kennedy, and the six attempts on other Presidents to know that when the people use the method of the vote,

The same kind, as you mention in OP, do not wait for a vote.
Whether controlling Washington or not, they attack and cheat We The People at every turn.

This is why TPTB, are relentless. They cheat, lie, and steal using any means neccessary to achieve their agendas and goal, concern of the serfs opinions, notwithstanding.

[edit on 14-7-2009 by imd12c4funn]

Mt thread was not about that, and you now it. The nation was set to have a new leader every so often. I never said it worked, and continued to show how it doesn't work.

I think your are bang on and hit the nail on the head.
I see it as they created their own pyramid scheme with We The People being the very bottom of the pyramid...therefore we get the least rewards.
Star and flag from me!!

I think the first move in starting to fix this mess we are in is to use our right to jury nullification. We can then keep the laws that are beneficial to everybody.

With using our right to jury nullification then we can cut out the federal reserve and leave the people you are talking about in the OP with the full responsibility of the debt that they created. By using our own common currency. We could literally usurp the federal government by just refusing to play by their rules.

Same goes with local businesses, start a business when they come to arrest somebody because they don't have the proper government approved licenses nullify the law. So on and so forth, with what ever else we as a free people think is wrong.

The ignorance and laziness you speak of is what dictates policy these days, the entitlements that we have been forced to pay into to that serve no benefit to anybody and continues the death grip they have around our necks. Instead what is supposed to help people actually makes it harder for people to be independent.

That is a strategy I know can work, as long as everybody is on the same page and realize that people will not agree with everything and peoples principles and morals are different and that in order to be free people have to be educated and the set of laws have to be minute.

People have to be realize that you can be intolerant of habits you do not approve of, but also know that you do not have to tolerate it by not associating with those people etc.

So after all this and thinking through this I feel that the best way to go about it is to start an education campaign. Educate people of the rights that they do not know they have. One of the most important is the right to jury nullification. If congress shoves a law down our throats that we do not approve of. Simple nullify it in court when somebody is brought up on those charges.

So my idea is education and the reassertion of our rights. The problem would be getting everybody on the same page to get to that point. Although in the court of law a guilty verdict must be unanimous, so one person has the ability to change the course we are plotting.

The issue of foreign policy is a whole other issue. That would require people being educated and electing people that will throw these people out.

That is my .02 dollars.

BUMP. Good thread and I might be about to continue a conversation here. Hopefully this alleviates some of ADVISORs concerns over the good threads he authors that no one pays attention to.

Originally posted by RSF77

Nothing is funnier to me than reading westerners complain about the west taking action against other nationalities. It's like going to a sports event and seeing a guy rooting for the away team, because he thinks hes smarter than everyone else on his side of the stands.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Why are the people spending money we dont have on wars we dont need "the home team?"

And maybe some of us DO think we are smarter than many in the stands. Because maybe some of us can do math. And "spend more + cut revenue (taxes) while already heavily in debt and having just had your credit downgraded to a C = stupid. "

Originally posted by RSF77

Because the "home team" is the culture and society our grand/fathers and mothers created (in my case anyways), it is up to us to fix it.

I'm not prepared to give up on my ancestors legacy and civilization because of conflict and death in another part of the world, in another society that someone else's people already screwed up. I could care less about them, I know typical ignorant American right?

To me, America means a lot more than the arrogant, untrustworthy faces of our politicians. It hurts me deep seeing it thrown away and the citizens of this country turning their backs instead of trying to right the wrongs. I confess though, I am insignificant in the grand scheme as well, I can't figure out what to do to help.

I believed I was smarter than everyone else once too, but it is what it is and we all have our ups and downs. You may be a pretty smart person, congratulations.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

We dont disagree on our love for America. And I strongly resent the implication that we do.

We disagree in that we think "America and Americans" are the driver of what is happening over there, and here. I believe that our politicians are no longer serving the interests of our nation, or her people in any real way, and instead are allowing themselves to be used to promote an international agenda that serves some few multinational banks and corporations. Our entire democracy is being subverted by corporate influence, and our economy as well.

I can be patriotic and not want my nation acting in ways that are detrimental to my nation and to the benefit of some few who in some cases, are not even American at all.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

I dont think I AM criticizing the "home team" when I am criticizing the drivers behind this war, and speaking out against it. Those people are ruining my home team as well as Libyas.

Multinational bankers and corporatists are buying (or bombing into place,) political control of nations all over the world, including my own, which I love dearly and would do anything to protect. Including facing ridicule on ATS for having the gall to point out that what is going on over there is NOT in America, the nation, or American (the people) best interests.

I have never and WILL never give up on America, we just seem to disagree in that fighting for America means you have to shut up and support whatever the foreign interests who are taking over my country have us do.

You might be misunderstanding me. I was saying that in order to make the changes that the majority of Americans obviously want (like and end to these wars), we probably have to start here in our country with us as citizens, not concern over what is happening in Libya. Libya has already happened and so has Iraq, there is nothing we can do about that, but we can try to make the future better.

So what can we do as citizens? I think about this over and over again, but I don't have much pull and I can't figure a way to accomplish a betterment of this country myself. The only thing I can think of is something that catalyzes interest and unity in the American people, perhaps a better educational system would be a good place to begin?

Well how to we do this, these processes are wrought with trouble and opposition from all angles?

Perhaps internet memes may work in our favor, practically everyone in America uses the internet? Kind of radical and far fetched ideas I know.

Like OP says, we are lazy and we don't know what to do. We need a REAL leader, not a political robot.

reply to post by ADVISOR


Here here!!!!!!!!!!!!
Great thread. S&F.

Originally posted by RSF77
I was saying that in order to make the changes that the majority of Americans obviously want (like and end to these wars), we probably have to start here in our country with us as citizens, not concern over what is happening in Libya. Libya has already happened and so has Iraq, there is nothing we can do about that, but we can try to make the future better.

No. Libya is "happening." Not happened. Its not over. We need to make it known that we want it to stop. That includes everything from talking to friends, neighbors, posting argument on ATS, Facebook, to letters, protests, strikes, boycotts, whatever.

We need to start where we ARE. In the middle of yet another unjust war. But this time, we havent yet killed the leader who can rebuild the country.

Originally posted by RSF77
So what can we do as citizens? I think about this over and over again, but I don't have much pull and I can't figure a way to accomplish a betterment of this country myself.

We need to become active at every level of government. We need to sit outside our local politicians offices with signs on our day off. We need to make our opinion known and demonstrate to others what needs to be done, by doing it ourselves. In addition to the educating other, speaking out, etc. I mentioned above.

Originally posted by RSF77
The only thing I can think of is something that catalyzes interest and unity in the American people, perhaps a better educational system would be a good place to begin?

We do not have time for that. Nor the money. We need campaign finance reform that effectively eliminates corporate money from campaigns. We need to regulate lobbyists and PACs. We need, in short, to prevent the further corporatization of the US first. Stop the flow of blood first. Its triage. No doctor educates a man on diet and exercise while he is having a heart attack. First, you stabilize the patient.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
No. Libya is "happening." Not happened. Its not over. We need to make it known that we want it to stop. That includes everything from talking to friends, neighbors, posting argument on ATS, Facebook, to letters, protests, strikes, boycotts, whatever.

We need to start where we ARE. In the middle of yet another unjust war. But this time, we havent yet killed the leader who can rebuild the country.

I don't think anyone wants our boys over there, no one I have met anyways. So, do you think "Vietnam style" protesting should be done so our officials get the point? How do we make this a louder concern, the MSM seems to care more about homosexuals and Obama's birth certificate. This is why I say maybe internet memes could work in our favor, I wouldn't know how to get an idea rolling on the internet though, perhaps Anonymous could? This is right on line with a lot of their goals, freedom of information.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
We need to become active at every level of government. We need to sit outside our local politicians offices with signs on our day off. We need to make our opinion known and demonstrate to others what needs to be done, by doing it ourselves. In addition to the educating other, speaking out, etc. I mentioned above.

We do not have time for that. Nor the money. We need campaign finance reform that effectively eliminates corporate money from campaigns. We need to regulate lobbyists and PACs. We need, in short, to prevent the further corporatization of the US first. Stop the flow of blood first. Its triage. No doctor educates a man on diet and exercise while he is having a heart attack. First, you stabilize the patient.

This country works purely because of that capitalistic system though, the people who control this system do not have the best of morals or interests for anyone other than themselves though, this is fact. It is like a virus that roots itself into vital parts of an organism or operating system. If any kind of revolution in the morals of American policy making is to take place, it might have to be done covertly. If it is done overtly it would be stopped at every turn. I would bet my meager paycheck that the powers of the US government have invested a large sum into research on how to stop this kind of protest against them or their ideals, it is quite obvious watching the news.

This is how I come to the conclusion that this must be done under the table, and among us regular citizens. Unity... somehow. Here I am talking about being covert and nanny is probably watching my every keystroke.

I don't believe that capitalism is a unanimously bad thing, it's just that the people who are good at it end up being in power and are the most selfish. It could work if only it wasn't for human nature, I guess the same thing could be said for any form of government though really.

I know this isn't an easy or entertaining topic to talk about, but then that may be why we are here now.

Great Opener S&F


Using the MSM will never work because they own it. The movement would have to be viral, using the new media (Internet) They know this which is why they're fast tracking the regulation of it. We would have to come up with a list of facts and truths that are un debunkable and have no bias to them, no spin but when read would lead the average person towards the truth and let them see things for what they are. I think we take certain truths for granted as if everyone can see them, simply because we talk about them regularly with like minded people. I assure you most people are still asleep as most of you can attest, strike up a conversation with someone tomorrow about some of the things we talk of and you'll see how much work needs to be done.

reply to post by EyesWideShut


That is what I have though, it starts with the individual. Everywhere I go I try to influence people to help this country and its people, call me biased but some kind of unity needs to instilled in the American public. So many people dislike us now, and it is basically up to people like us to actually care about this country. Nobody else cares.

Our ancestors built this and we are letting it be mocked and sold out. What do we do? I wish I could come up with some great Idea. There are a lot of people smarter than me on ATS, I guess we have to wait for the right person or the right moment, if it comes. Look I am lazy too, what are we to do?

What do we do, we are the last remaining bastion of the American dream. Are we? What is with our country? They need a leader?

What do you think about an efficient job placement program? You think our society can manage that, it seems like it is what it needs right now. Does that sound too much like communism? Yea I'm a funny guy right.

reply to post by RSF77

Originally posted by RSF77
Look I am lazy too, what are we to do?

What do we do, we are the last remaining bastion of the American dream. Are we? What is with our country? They need a leader?

At least your honest, that's more than can be said about over half the people...

I have an idea, we can try. That is the start, a majority starts with one person.

There are many threads, and posts of my own which could be used to begin an answer for you.
A place I found to begin is here;

"Give Me Liberty A Handbook for American Revolutionaries"

I truley think and believe like you, but the problem goes much deeper.
It is most of the human race.
All of us have failed, we all lie, cheat and steal, some on a small scale others on a larger scale.
We all turn a blind eye to whats going on around us wether it's out of fear or apathy.
We all think bad behavior is acceptable because everybody else does it.
Taking a pen from the Dr.s office or bank is stealing.
Fudging on your tax return or excuses to your boss are lying.
Flirting with another other than your mate or partner or keeping change for a twenty when you gave the cashier a ten is cheating.
Those are small examples, which most will find acceptable and thats the problem, we don't know where to draw the line anymore.Where ever you draw the line someone else will find a reason to extend it.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


Ah yes, go ahead cross that line or extend it, while in my presence, one will get more than a hand slapped.

reply to post by ADVISOR


As a mod and the OP , it is your ball and you can take your ball and go home any time you choose.

reply to post by OLD HIPPY DUDE


LoL

I was meaning in general, not you specifically.



To those who would cross the line of decency, they will get more than a slapped hand.
Many of my friends and family, know not to talk about certain people and their actions around me, because I will be vigilant in making a wrong, right.

I was raised with morals and decency as a part of my families tradition. To be selfish and a cheat is not a value we hold, and those who would, are not welcome.

reply to post by ADVISOR


Thanks, I actually browsed through that thread before, I didn't get the book though it seems interesting. I will order it and maybe have some more to talk about besides asking hard questions.

reply to post by RSF77


Asking the hard questions is what we all should be doing.

Instead of taking the easy way out and passing the buck onto another.




History only repeats, because we let it.

And yet a couple of years later, it still repeats.

Pete and Repeat go fishing, Pete falls out of the boat, who is left?

Not sure enough people have read this and processed it.

There are times when lessons must be learned, but not repeated.

Is there any hope for the future, if we constantly fail to learn from the past. Especially the very recent past...