4 killed, 32 wounded as 6 Baghdad churches bombed

4 killed, 32 wounded as 6 Baghdad churches bombed

www.cnn.com

Many of Iraq's estimated 1 million Christians have fled the country after targeted attacks by extremists. In October, more than a thousand Iraqi families fled the northern city of Mosul after they were reportedly frightened by a series of killings and threats by Muslim extremists, who apparently ordered them to convert to Islam or face possible death.

(visit the link for the full news article)

For a quick background, my parents came to America from Baghdad in the 1970s, before I was born. They were smart enough to run away when Saddam Hussein was only just beginning to gain power. Things in Baghdad were difficult under Saddam Hussein, but one thing must be mentioned about pre-2003 Baghdad: The Christians were safe. Saddam Hussein was what the country needed. He was secular, tough on crime, and ruthless against any threat to stability.

Now, in post-2003 Baghdad (and Mosul), Christians are often persecuted or killed. They are an endangered people. Most Christians have fled the country, and many others are literally hiding in the caves of Kurdistan. Luckily the Kurds are not Muslim extremists, but the Kurds also don't want the Christians in the country for political reasons.

It's a bad time for Christians in the Muslim world.

www.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yes, I agree with you that there are dark days ahead for the Iragi Christian minority. I am aware that the Iraqi Christian where protected under the Saddam Hussein regime as well. Being a minority with a long history of living side by side with Muslims in Iraq I find it hard for many of the the Christians to pick up and leave as a result of the violence.

However, now that the US troops have retreated to their bases and left security measures to the largely Muslim Iraqi police and military forces, could this be a precursor to brutal sectarian assaults against the Christians reminiscent of the sectarian violence from 2004 to 2006?

en.wikipedia.org...

As a result of the violence, will there be a mass migration to say Lebanon or Syria and a potential humanitarian crisis? I'm upset how the Christians in Iraq are being treated and hopefully the Iraqi government will take a hard-line against sectarian assaults against them. It is a sad time for the Christian in Iraq and with the US in the stages withdrawal; they are now sitting ducks.

[edit on 13-7-2009 by Jakes51]

Thank you for posting this! A star and a flag for you! I will pray for the Christians in Iraq. Christians are not safe in majority Muslim countries under Islamic rule. If they don't pay the jizya (protection money), they are persecuted until they either pay up, surrender their property, or die. I hope they will find refuge in countries not under Sharia law.

Here's the hilarious part of all this.


The oppressive muslims don't realize that they are further proving why religions are completely obsolete.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Now, I would disagree with you on the comment you said about religion here. You're probably bound to start a flamewar. I don't think religion causes wars. I know that many people will disagree with me here. I do however think people hijack religion to use it to their own agenda, and, those people need to be stopped.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


It's worse than that though Frank... Religions have people duped that the divinity is not within them, it's in some other supposed authority.

Be your own God... anything else is someone using you for an agenda.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


There is nothing wrong with thinking there is a God. It's that the kind of thinking that their way is the best way and that their way is adorned to them by God that needs to stop. I don't believe in God. I'm more of a spiritual type... but I think your assessment of religion is wrong here.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


I'll go back to my original observation that organized religions are obsolete.

I never said there was anything wrong with believing in a God. I said the time for believing that God is "out there" and not "right here" is obsolete.

Now granted, during the Axial age, many of the foundations were laid down for social philosophies of sorts which could lead to greater harmony with "the other". And there was a time when Religions were indicative of your larger tribe and gave you a sense of justification for whatever fighting you had to do. But even that time is long past.

To continue to believe in a God which exists separate from humans is tantamount to rape. God develops within me, through my finite existence I come to know all of that which previous people have referred to as God. I am ultimately responsible for my own existence, nothing else. Any divinity that exists, exists in me. Any commandment which comes forth, comes only through me. Any obedience that I shall have shall be toward me, as there shall be no other Gods before me.

And the same is also true for you. This is the philosophy of freedom. All suffering exists in me, and all joy exists in me. I am ultimately responsible for my world, and no one else. No one else is to blame, and I am infinitely finite.

Sorry... but I just wish more people would wake up to this, and stop giving their most powerful resource, their beliefs, over to someone else or some organic system. Our beliefs are our own, and should not be dictated by what any one else believes.

[Lightning just cracked over head, it's a beautiful rainy evening in Atlanta.]

It's amazing the power over you can have over your own reality when you are responsible for what you believe. No matter how mystical, or mundane... you are the author.

[Wow.. another sharp peal of thunder and blinding light!]

I'm not saying that religion is the cause for all of the worlds woes. I'm saying that relgion has morphed before at key points in human existence, and this last piece of fruit which was sour for those who first had it, sweet for those who had it while it was ripe, has now become rotten and will serve only as the muck from which the next seed finds it's earliest beginnings.

I do enjoy speaking with the older generations of people who grasped religion in a much different mode from those today. I recently heard an 80+ yo Moravian speak in Old Salem NC about their religious life. I admired it so much. And I would have loved to live in that village, even today, however it is also dying out. A religious settlement devoted to industry and artisans at it's core. The first place ever to celebrate the 4th of July.

Anyway, it's never going to be like it used to be again...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I'm going to disagree with this one on you again!

My father is Jewish. I don't consider myself belonging to any one single religion, and, I go to his synagogue, and, it's actually a really humane place. It's not like those crazy zealots that you have there in Christianity. I think religion is okay- just- only if it's done right. Organized religion is fine. Allow me to reply to a few of your posts.

I never said there was anything wrong with believing in a God. I said the time for believing that God is "out there" and not "right here" is obsolete.

You don't know that there isn't a God. Neither do I. I just don't think there is a supreme one.

And the same is also true for you. This is the philosophy of freedom. All suffering exists in me, and all joy exists in me. I am ultimately responsible for my world, and no one else. No one else is to blame, and I am infinitely finite.

Sorry... but I just wish more people would wake up to this, and stop giving their most powerful resource, their beliefs, over to someone else or some organic system. Our beliefs are our own, and should not be dictated by what any one else believes.

Does anyone really do this? If so they need help. I don't agree with your characterization of freedom. What makes you think this is really all there is to it? What if something is out there? Part of the philosophy of freedom is that you're allowed to believe what you want to believe.

It's amazing the power over you can have over your own reality when you are responsible for what you believe. No matter how mystical, or mundane... you are the author.

[Wow.. another sharp peal of thunder and blinding light!]

Anyone that lets religion take total control of their lives needs a lot of help. There isn't anything wrong with believing in beings in a higher order though.

I'm not saying that religion is the cause for all of the worlds woes. I'm saying that relgion has morphed before at key points in human existence, and this last piece of fruit which was sour for those who first had it, sweet for those who had it while it was ripe, has now become rotten and will serve only as the muck from which the next seed finds it's earliest beginnings.

Okay, so is that your argument against religion? That man is best, religion is bad? Are you going to tell a bunch of people that there is no God, that, you must stop believing in what you want to? I don't think people should make religion a way of living. I don't think religion is wrong per se, but, it just has to be done right. I disagree with you here.

whether "too much religion" is dangerous is not the point. a secular government can control best, even if the population is religious.

. . . although too secular is dangerous as well, with China as an example.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


You don't think religion is going through a transformation?

Historically it seems to have changed rather drastically every 1500 years or so.

I don't think man is best, which is why I don't follow any organized religion because, well, they are ran by humans other than myself.

I agree with your point that there are sane congregations... I even mentioned that.

I'm just ready for us monkeys to come to some realizations...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I apologize if I misconstrued any of your views.

I've been thinking to myself. It's kind of funny. You know how people say that we need a new era of enlightenment? I would tend to agree. People actually really changed the way things were and how people viewed religion back then. And it didn't totally destroy religion either. I think we need a new era of enlightenment and a new age of reason. That is how I feel religion can still coexist (for those that want to), and, so we won't have problems like this, and we can all live in a saner world.

I do believe a major historical shift with how people view religion is happening right now. I think many countries around the world are starting to shake loose of their dogmatism of their religion. I think they are starting to see how using religion can be very oppressive if it's done in certain ways. I think this is a natural progression. I think people are just realizing this now.

I think people will change over time. Humans are a funny creature. We make many mistakes and never seem to learn from them until many many years. I think that time is coming soon.

These Muslim extremists are not civilized people with this kind of behavior.
You know what the world does with uncivilized people?
They are cut off or assimilated by the dominant secular culture. That's what happened to the Native Americans.

This has all happened before and it will all happen again. -BSG
Resistance is futile! -Star Trek

[edit on 13-7-2009 by lostinspace]