Actually, we owe $29 Trillion!

Take the debt clock, and double it. The actual amount financed in this country last quarter, was $29 Trillion. And what's insane, even with this recession, people keep borrowing at staggering rates, like there's no tomorrow.

Who knows, maybe their (I'm) right.

I found the info on the Federal Reserves website.
The report is called G.19 Release Consumer Credit.

The amounts are listed in billions of dollars, and if you
look at the line listed Amount Financed (Dollars) you
will see a number of 29,133 for last quarter.
www.federalreserve.gov...

Current M2 supply is a little over $8 trillion, which we owe, because
they are Federal Notes. Hence your social security #. This is to securitize
their investment, which is you, and me.

National debt reads around $12 trillion.

And last night on Kudlow, I heard one of his guests say the the Fed has stopped printing money for the last couple of months. I tried to find a source, but to no avail.

You'll probably know that they are following in the footsteps of the 1933 depression, but on a grander scale. The fed contracted the money supply back then, and that is what actually fueled the depression. Bernanke knows this, as he has studied the Great Depression in great detail.

We have been trapped, enslaved by easy money (credit), and there seems no end to the madness.

www.federalreserve.gov...
www.nber.org...

[edit on 11-7-2009 by Udontknowme]

What happens if Americans can't or don't pay up this figure of 29 Trillion?

Are the PTB going to try convince them that they're slaves who deserve this, who have to give up their land to foreign investors and have to work for free, live in prison camps or 'communes' as the PTB will call them, or be jailed for not paying off their 'share' of the debts?

reply to post by star in a jar


I believe it is a progression towards harder and harder work and less and less pay, until, eventually, we work for the government/banks for basic necessities.

First, a culling of the herd though.

reply to post by Udontknowme


With such an astounding debt, perhaps it would be cheaper to just kill the people we own money to (the Fed) and call it even =)

In all seriousness, the actual debt owed by the United States is north of 57 trillion dollars.

The reason people undercut the amount owed by so much is because Medicare and Social Security are not accounted for in the public deficit. That would be the National Debt clock we all hear so much about.

The United States keeps several balance sheets, only one is drummed up for all to see. Accounting for all borrowed money, the United States literally owes more money, than the combined GDP of every country on the planet. Think about that, we have so much debt, that even if the rest of the world committed 100% of their wealth to pay it off, they still couldn't do it.

Irony...... nothing in the world is worth 57 trillion dollars, it is impossible to pay back. So who do we owe it too? Simple, we owe it to a bunch bunch of loan sharks smoking cigars and laughing thier asses off. They Hang out in a marble building, inside of which they have a printing press..... can you guess which building it is?

[edit on 11-7-2009 by aravoth]

reply to post by aravoth


Isnt GDP just the annual revenue generated by a country... Not the total value of wealth in a country? Just curious.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by grapesofraft]

It's a frightful scenairo. The colonization of this country was made up of many people who were parolled from "Debtors prisions" Now our whole country is becomming a "Debtors prision".
I tend to agree with an earlier post. The way things are shaping up,we could be slaving for sustianance from the government. Moving from citizens to subjects.

Why Should we repay $29 Trillion in fake money? Its fake and if its not backed by anything then we dont owe anything.

So go out and get as many credit cards as you can and use them to purchase silver and gold so you have some real money!!!!

57 Trillion dollars? How are people going to pay that off, even if they work 3 jobs a day and night? Why are people even paying them?

America is totally indebted to the wealthy power players, because they have no choice. Americans are being held ransom and the experiment is to see if Americans will pay up I believe.

I mean... What happened to the Homestead act, Why can't I claim 1, 0.1 or 0.05 % of a strip acre of land that I can build on and live on for free as my birthright?

If you go back to the 1700-1800's or so around Canada you can see old maps of homestead organic family/farm thin plots arranged in strips sharing water from the rivers.

Now we have big agri farms on these lands producing garbage crops and leaching chemicals into the river supply.

What the hell happened to those days? Slavery is not a good fact during that time BUT... Where's my damn homestead strip of land?

The Government/Fed/Elite families want you and me to pay a right-to-life ransom to them in exchange for not nuking the world and/or pulling the plug on our entire monetary commerce system and plunging us into delivery system/credit/ purchasing chaos by removing the biggest weapon they have on us: Food and easy living.

Without good food, we will die or be too weak to fight them off if they try to take people into camps and if they pull the rug from under us then we'll have to work harder to survive, but hey if it gives us a reason to kill the PTB, then so be it.

They'll be living in the underground bunkers they built using our money anyway with tanks flanking their lairs but... You get the idea.

They have a gun to our heads and if we lash out they will pull the trigger to punish us for not bowing down to them and blocking them from conquering the whole planet.

Stop watching American Idol or Dancing with the Stars... Learn how to grow food, make weapons, make body armor...

But MOST of all, never be afraid or angry- be strong and aware.

2012 will be a time of transformation and the collective emotions of 2012 will manifest itself beyond 2012.

What I mean is, according to my understanding, TPTB cult/religion dictates that when the solar cycle popularized by the Mayan Calendar 'ends' there must be a global emotional environment that is tilted towards 'Negative' (war, debt, worry,hunger, abuse, fear, every negative crap you can think of) so humanity will be 'tilted' to steer or evolve into that direction of evil for the next cycle, instead of an emotionally positive world entering the next cycle and thus heading on a path of continued happiness and true security.

Hopefully the PTB goes under soon because technology is making leaps and bounds and there might come a time (soon!) when the PTB can flick a switch and the entire world becomes blissfully ignorant and servile.










[edit on 11-7-2009 by star in a jar]

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by aravoth

 

Isnt GDP just the annual revenue generated by a country... Not the total value of wealth in a country? Just curious.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by grapesofraft]

Yes, you are correct. The net worth of all Americans is approximately 50 trillion dollars. Most people don't know what they are talking about when they spit out numbers concerning GDP, deficit, debt, etc.

As for the OP's comment suggesting the true national debt is 57 trillion...that is ABSURD. Udontknowme says "Take the debt clock, and double it. The actual amount financed in this country last quarter, was $29 Trillion."

The number on the chart reads 29,133. That is NOT in billions of dollars. The chart even says it is in DOLLARS, not billions. When a number does happen to be in billions of dollars, it is specified like this:

Amount: billions of dollars

or

CONSUMER CREDIT OUTSTANDING
(Billions of dollars)


This is what the chart says in regards to that number of 29,133:

Amount financed (dollars)

That figure is with respect to auto financing. It represents the average of amount of dollars that is financed on new loans. That means this: for people who take out loans on cars they bought during the month of May, the average price value of that car is 29,133. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW MUCH DEBT AMERICANS HAVE ACCRUED DURING THE MONTH OF MAY. I repeat, Udontknowme has MISINTERPRETED this number. See footnote number four that states:

Finance company data are from the subsidiaries of the three major U.S. automobile manufacturers and are volume-weighted averages covering all loans of each type purchased during the month.


Maybe you guys should have actually taken a look at the chart and try to determine the true amount of outstanding credit Americans have. That table shows the total figure (as of May) of 2502.2 (in billions of dollars) which is the equivalent of 2.5 trillion dollars.

[edit on 11-7-2009 by 1 4M 7H3 1]

Well, the thought of this debt fries my brain. I am majoring in accounting.

I so far don't understand how the heck companies and countries can still run when they are in the red?

I seriously would love to try the I owe you technique with best buy.

I don't understand how GM gets out of bankruptcy. The only thing I see is that GM is under a new owner/partnerships of U.S CANADA, and many more. That is how they are out of bankruptcy. I doubt they will stay that way.

The U.S government done many illegal things. Yet they got away with it. I mean for me I get weirded out seeing the U.S government not following any laws.

I mean it shows that laws don't mean anything. Its only for the middle class and the poor.

So the U.S is in the red. From what I heard we are broke by june 25th of this year.

That means we can't pay back loans from other countries. So we will start a ponzi scheme. Where we borrow others money use half of it and the other half we pay off someone else and then ask for another loan and do another cycle of it.

reply to post by computerwiz32


That ponzi scheme you speak of has existed for a while now. It's known as purchasing treasury bonds and bills...

reply to post by 1 4M 7H3 1


It's not absurd, it's what happens when you have a nation of consumers.

57 trillion is not a number I conjured up, the comptroller general of the United States did. That would be the guy that actually puts his hand on all of the balance sheets.

you can watch him actually say it here www.youtube.com...

And read his article here. money.cnn.com...

The only absudity here is denial of the obvious.

Originally posted by aravoth
reply to post by 1 4M 7H3 1

 

It's not absurd, it's what happens when you have a nation of consumers.

57 trillion is not a number I conjured up, the comptroller general of the United States did. That would be the guy that actually puts his hand on all of the balance sheets.

you can watch him actually say it here www.youtube.com...

And read his article here. money.cnn.com...

The only absudity here is denial of the obvious.

You are misconstruing data. Walker points out that 57 trillion figure is "equivalent to $352,000 per U.S. household, is the present-value shortfall between the growing cost of entitlements and the dedicated revenues intended to pay for them over the next 75 years." That does not mean we currently owe that much...It is how much we will owe 75 years from now if the US does not curb its spending and contribution towards programs like Social Security and Medicare. You are completely right when you say we are a nation of consumers. Obama is advocating a "new era of responsibility." If he is true to his word, then he should make an attempt to educate Americans about personal finance, of which most Americans are illiterate. Poor personal financial responsibility leads to a sole dependence on government to sustain people financially after they retire. The implementation of a mandatory economics/personal finance course during senior of high school could assist in the elimination of our dependence of social security, effectively saving the country trillions of dollars. Social Security was only enacted because we were in a time of great depression. There was no need to continue funding the program after World War II. I cannot stress enough the significance of financial literacy. If we want to save ourselves from national economic meltdown, then we must first purge the necessity of government intervention in our retirement plans.

But I know for a fact I am not wrong about the supposed 29 trillion dollars the OP believes we owe.

Originally posted by 1 4M 7H3 1
But I know for a fact I am not wrong about the supposed 29 trillion dollars the OP believes we owe.

I believe you are right! Why wouldn't they specify it is an average.

However, look at the third link I posted. That is using the M3 supply to calculate debt. It 2000, it was $17 trillion. Since the FED stopped posting the M3 report, we can't tell what it currently is.

I will point you to the increase in difference between M1 and M2 supply, suggesting the banks are pumping more and more fiat money into the system, consistently decreasing the value of the dollar.

And, no one has mentioned anything about the FED stopping printing money. I was going to originally focus on this topic, but I couldn't find verification.

At the end of the day,

It's just a bunch of numbers on a computer screen!

If humanity is stupid enough to become a slave of debt, then we deserve to be slaves.






[edit on 12-7-2009 by tim1989]

Originally posted by Udontknowme


I believe you are right! Why wouldn't they specify it is an average.

However, look at the third link I posted. That is using the M3 supply to calculate debt. It 2000, it was $17 trillion. Since the FED stopped posting the M3 report, we can't tell what it currently is.

I will point you to the increase in difference between M1 and M2 supply, suggesting the banks are pumping more and more fiat money into the system, consistently decreasing the value of the dollar.

And, no one has mentioned anything about the FED stopping printing money. I was going to originally focus on this topic, but I couldn't find verification.

Uhm are you 100% positive that M3, M2, M1, etc are representative of debt figures? I honestly have never heard of them until now...I just did a quick search on Wikipedia and this is what it says:

The different types of money are typically classified as Ms. The number of Ms usually range from M0 (narrowest) to M3 (broadest) but which Ms are actually used depends on the system. The typical layout for each of the Ms is as follows: * M0: Notes and coins (currency) in circulation and in bank vaults, plus reserves which commercial banks hold in their accounts with the central bank (minimum reserves and excess reserves). This is the base from which other forms of money (like checking deposits, listed below) are created and is traditionally the most liquid measure of the money supply. M0 is usually called the monetary base. The designation M0 may lead to confusion because it seems to imply that M0 is part of M1, which is not strictly the case. [8] * M1: M1 includes funds that are readily accessible for spending. M1 consists of: (1) currency outside the U.S. Treasury, Federal Reserve Banks, and the vaults of depository institutions; (2) traveler's checks of nonbank issuers; (3) demand deposits; and (4) other checkable deposits (OCDs), which consist primarily of negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts at depository institutions and credit union share draft accounts. [9] * M2: Equals M1 + savings deposits, time deposits less than $100,000 and money market deposit accounts for individuals. M2 represents money and "close substitutes" for money.[10] M2 is a broader classification of money than M1. Economists use M2 when looking to quantify the amount of money in circulation and trying to explain different economic monetary conditions. M2 is a key economic indicator used to forecast inflation.[11] * M3: Equals M2 + large time deposits, institutional money-market funds, short-term repurchase agreements, along with other larger liquid assets.[12] M3 is no longer published or revealed to the public by the US central bank.[13] However it is estimated by a web site called Shadow Government Statistics. [14]

It appears to me that these M's are simply a form of determining the total value of a certain type of asset, not necessarily determining the amount of consumer debt. And according to wikipedia, as you can see, the M2 figure does not include any treasury bonds or bills; therefore, we do not owe any of this. Again, there is a chance that I can be completely wrong about this, and if I am, please let me know.

reply to post by Udontknowme

Originally posted by Udontknowme

However, look at the third link I posted. That is using the M3 supply to calculate debt. It 2000, it was $17 trillion. Since the FED stopped posting the M3 report, we can't tell what it currently is.

Ok I think I figured out what that debt figure represents in that third link you told me to visit. Because that link was very specific as to the components of that calculation, I visited the Federal Reserve website (the source of that site).
This is what is says: (Link: www.federalreserve.gov...)

Debt: The debt aggregate is the outstanding credit market debt of the domestic nonfinancial sectors--the federal sector (U.S. government, not including government-sponsored enterprises or federally related mortgage pools) and the nonfederal sectors (state and local governments, households and nonprofit organizations, nonfinancial corporate and nonfarm noncorporate businesses, and farms). Nonfederal debt consists of mortgages, tax-exempt and corporate bonds, consumer credit, bank loans, commercial paper, and other loans. The data, which are derived from the Federal Reserve Board's flow of funds accounts, are break-adjusted (that is, discontinuities in the data have been smoothed into the series) and month-averaged(that is, the data have been derived by averaging adjacent month-end levels). The presentation of the debt data in this release
differ, therefore, from the quarterly flow of funds statistics contained in the Federal Reserve release Z.1.
In that release, published levels of credit market debt are measured on a quarter-end basis and contain discontinuities.


As far as I can tell, that 18 trillion figure represents our recognize national debt at the time (around 5 trillion?) plus every single loan American citizens and businesses have outstanding at that time. Please keep in mind that includes mortgages, money citizens owe banks, and money businesses owe each other. That does not mean we are not able to repay all of those loans; it simply means that is how much we owe. But generally, we as a nation are not obligated to pay that 18 trillion dollars. That is up to to the borrowers to return that money.