How Dare The French Forget!

Originally posted by Bout Time

1) Nope, nada no way. We are recruiting Jihadist by the truckload in what will be perceived, rightfully so, as theft of resources and Iraqi birthright. Want an historical reference? Look at post World War I Germany and how the vultures used that countries output to offset costs and usurp wealth; who came out of THAT environment!?!

2) That region is unstable now with stability around the corner post "war"? You mean that? You think that an occupying force and military governor will do that?

1) I know. The WW1 allies are all responsible for what happened in Germany, just after the WW1. We acted bad, and I understand why it was so easy for Hitler to gain power in Germany. But we learned our lesson, and we will not do it again. Look,after the WW2, we didn't do the same mistake another time. It willbe the same with Irak. A democratic gov and no more fanatics with a so-called good reason to have a revenge to take.

2) Yep, I mean that. And yes, I think that this region will be ( more) stable and democratic after.

You're a good man in your intentions, just confused to think that, with 50 years left of oil for the world, Bush & Co. shares your perspective or anything remotely resembling good natured.

Democratic? To a part of the world that has NEVER had that form of government?

Don't be thrown off that it's intended to be a game, just look at the outcomes! This is exactly what I believe will happen:
www.idleworm.com...

I have to agree with lupe (again!! will this become a habit?) What the heck does WW2 have to do with this.

Why should this emotional tie be bought up everytime some country exercises its right to disagree with the USA?

You want a hackeneyed kneejerk, tearjerked, emotional post then MM's fits the bill. It implies that France, and all western nations, are eternally in the debt of America and must slavishly follow its will.

Get over it....

Originally posted by Bout Time

1) You're a good man in your intentions, just confused to think that, with 50 years left of oil for the world, Bush & Co. shares your perspective or anything remotely resembling good natured.

2) Democratic? To a part of the world that has NEVER had that form of government?

3) This is exactly what I believe will happen:
www.idleworm.com...

1) Eer, my wife think that I'm a good guy too. But I'm NOT confused.

2) Sure, why not ? In germany, democratia was also new.And it worked. So, why not with Irak ? Are you telling that they are not able to have a democratic behaviour and that they still have to grow up a little bit ?

3) And me, I don't believe that it will happen. Anyway, if it have to happen, I don't understand why you are so afraid. You know perfectly that these guys just want to kill us all. It will give us a good occasion to wipe out all these fanatic and we will set up democratic gov everywhere in the M.E.

I just hope that they will not use any nukes. Because I know that we'll have to retaliate, and in this case....

But it's the worse scenario ! We are not going to nuke the whole world.It didn't happen before and it will not happen now. The Chicom wll not sacrifice Peking for Baghdad and the Russian will not sacrifice Moscow for Baghdad.

I don't believe in your scenario.

People wonder why most of the US is war crazed, its because we don't feel like having a 9/11 on our hands. Most of you Anti-American's just don't realize the seriousness of terrorism and take it for granted. We bring up WW2 and France to gain war support, and whether you like it or not, we, the US did save the French. 10,000 US soldiers died for them and here they are today trying to stop us from going in Iraq to get ride of an evil Tyrant. We're not going to wait for another 9/11 to occur before you finally agree with us. We are helping the world by fighting the war on terrorism and disarming a madman with WMD. If they want to block Turkey, well all I have to say on that is, we saved em� we can also destroy them.

Of course you don't; but you believe Bush is a great improvement over Clinton too! THAT should tell you something!
The choice to kick over the first domino is the US's, that we are going to, is obvious.

Originally posted by Midnight Mutilator

If they want to block Turkey, well all I have to say on that is, we saved em� we can also destroy them.

STOOOOOOOOOOOOOP !!! Did you forget where I live MM ? I would be really sorry if I was seeing a US ICBM heading toward my country.

It wouldn't be usefull for me who's allways explaining to everybody here, why the USA have right and why we have to help them.

Originally posted by Bout Time
Of course you don't; but you believe Bush is a great improvement over Clinton too! THAT should tell you something!

Yeah, sure. It tell me that I right. Clinton....beurk ! Each time I think about him and what he did, I'm sick.

There is something with clinton that I hate. He's NOT a US patriot ! I don't like unpatriotic peoples. Unpatriotics peoples will sold their country to his worst ennemy.

And our democracy are all full of these traitors !

Ah sorry UP, I forgot about that You don't have to worry though in my opinion if that happens, I don't think the French would have the "guts" to stand up to American Forces. I think they will eventually join our side anyways

Truely MM, its posts and viewpoints like yours that turn people agaisnt americans...

Yet NetChicken it is views such as MM's that currently dominate US politics and Public opinion.MM is not in a minority.
The majority of Americans(Not members here)only started paying atention to the outside world since 9/11.Many rely on TV "Experts"to educate them and all that remains in there memory after the TV is switched off are sound bites.They have been indoctrinated into saluting a flag every morning and are conditioned into thinking that any questioning of their Governments actions is unpatriotic,being unpatriotic is a crime.

Originally posted by Netchicken
Truely MM, its posts and viewpoints like yours that turn people agaisnt americans...

American's are individuals; we don't have labels on our foreheads. If a post like mine is going to turn "people" against American's then those people are no better then racists

Originally posted by John bull 1

1)They have been indoctrinated into saluting a flag every morning

2) and are conditioned into thinking that any questioning of their Governments actions is unpatriotic,being unpatriotic is a crime.

1) What's wrong with saluting your flag every morning ?

2) Questioning your gov is not unpatriotic. But being unpatriotic, yes, it's a crime. Of course, we have to know what's patriotic and what is unpatriotic.

There is nothing wrong with saluting a flag but Unblinking Patriotism+Ignorance=Moral Blindness.

The recent US newspaper reports concerning France remind me of 1984 once again.

"France is our Enemy,France has always been our Enemy,There has never been a time when France was not our Enemy."

And the Blind ignorant masses follow meekly behind spitting yet another name out in their 10 minutes hate.

Originally posted by John bull 1
There is nothing wrong with saluting a flag but Unblinking Patriotism+Ignorance=Moral Blindness.

The recent US newspaper reports concerning France remind me of 1984 once again.

"France is our Enemy,France has always been our Enemy,There has never been a time when France was not our Enemy."

And the Blind ignorant masses follow meekly behind spitting yet another name out in their 10 minutes hate.

I have got news for you. FRANCE GOV HATE THE USA AND FRENCH PEOPLES HATES THE USA ( peoples or gov ) TOO !

If you think that the frenchie are seeing the USA like an ally, you do a deadly mistake.

They don't like the usa, they don't like the americans, they don't like the us way of live, they don't like the us constitution, they don't like your language...

What do you need to understand that they don't like you ? A french nuke detonating in central park, NYC ?

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by triplesod
Ahhh, so America went to war (after a good few thousand deaths already, why didnt you join earlier?) To help and to save lives did you? Right, so it had nothing to do with being attacked by teh Japanese then?

Learn something new everyday when America changes history.

Yes, America did join the war after being attacked by the Japanese. However that didn't mean they had to commit forces to Europe, especially as it would prolong the war in the Pacific. I believe as well the US made VE the no.1 priority not the Pacific War. They could have just as easily supplied the material of war without losing hundreds of thousands of US lives. Especially as Germany wasn't in a position to attack the US.
Get a clue, think about that ridiculous statement you just made.

[Edited on 11-2-2003 by mad scientist]

Erm, get a clue? Ridiculous statement? My statement is as important and due the same amount of respect as yours or anyone elses. Seems typically obnoxious to reply in such a way.
FDR did make a generous decision when he put the defeat of Hitler before the Pacific war in his list of priorities... he was a President who genuinely cared about Europe as the cradle of American democracy. It's true that a day has to come when the Yanks stop harking back to it, but the fact is that they made the difference between defeat and victory, and they did take very heavy casualties.

I think I'm more enraged about the American "we won the war" talk by the fact that most of them (a vocal minority?) spout it without knowing # all about World War 2 apart from there were Nazis run aby a dictator (most don't seem to know he was democratically elected), the French Surrendered, and the US helped out towards the end and "saved our ass". (see FARK.com for details). Its an argument often employed by those who know nothing about the situation and want to avoid actual debate, and it #s me off.
Really and there was me thinking history was set in stone. It is very dubious to assume that the war in Europe would have been lossed had they not stepped in. Of course it would have dragged on for a lot longer, but to say with certainty that the Allies would have lost is plain wrong. Do you really think that US citizens would have been happy joining the war had pearl harbour not happened? The US acted in self interest in the way that any other country does. They were not ridding the world of evil anymore than they are trying to do now, else they would have taken part in the first place.

Every countires opinion of American involvement in WWII and their gain in the upcoming war will vary significantly but that does not mean that they should be fobbed off as easily and as arrogantly as you have done to me. Learn how to debate properly and maybe we can all learn from each other.

ps. yes, i do contradict myself in teh previous post but I am doing so to show the many different thoughts and histories.

Propaganda!

Originally posted by Midnight MutilatorI don't think the French would have the "guts" to stand up to American Forces.

Originally posted by Midnight Mutilator
If a post like mine is going to turn "people" against American's then those people are no better then racists

Does he genuinely not get the irony?

You can't beat the French when it comes to food, fashion, wine or perfume, but they lost their license to have an opinion on world affairs years ago. They may even be selling stuff to Iraq and don't want to hurt business.

The French are simply not reliable partners in a world where the good people in it ought to be working together. Americans may come off as international jerks sometimes but we're usually trying to do the right thing.

The French lost WW II to the Germans in about 20 minutes. Along with the British, we got into the war and had about 150,000 guys killed getting their country back for them. We fought all across France, and the Germans finally surrendered in a French schoolhouse.

You'd think that school building in Reims would be a great tourist attraction but it isn't. The French seem embarrassed by it. They don't want to call attention to the fact that we freed them from German occupation.

I've heard Steven Spielberg say the French wouldn't even let him film the D-Day scenes in �Saving Private Ryan� on the Normandy beaches. They want people to forget the price we paid getting their country back for them.

Americans have a right to protest going to war with Iraq. The French do not. They owe us the independence they flaunt in our face at the U.N.

I went into Paris with American troops the day we liberated it, Aug. 25, 1944. It was one of the great days in the history of the world.

French women showered American soldiers with kisses, at the very least. The next day, the pompous Charles de Gaulle marched down the mile long Champs Elysee to the Place de la Concorde as if he had liberated France himself. I was there, squeezed in among a hundred tanks we'd given the Free French Army that we brought in with us.

Suddenly there were sniper shots from the top of a building. Thousands of Frenchmen who had come to see de Gaulle scrambled to get under something. I got under an Army truck myself. The tank gunners opened fire on the building where the shots had come from, firing mindlessly at nothing. It was a wild scene that lasted, maybe, 10 minutes.

When we go to Paris every couple of years now, I rent a car. I drive around the Place de la Concorde and when some French driver blows his horn for me to get out of his way, I just smile and say to myself, "Go ahead, Pierre. Be my guest. I know something about this very place you'll never know."

The French have not earned their right to oppose President Bush's plans to attack Iraq.

Link - www.cbsnews.com...