Planning for the big one

No. My middle name is James.

I'm not saying don't look both ways before crossing the road, I'm not suggesting you buy a KKK costume and go wander through Harlem, all I'm saying is relax.

The weapon they are using is terror. Realise that actually theres not really much point worrying and they are effectively disarmed.

LOL ... alright. I can respect that. You know quite a bit about the US ... I don't know anything about the UK ...

[Edited on 5/7/04 by xenophanes85]

Well done Simon, for showing some common sense at last. I live in east London, and I go about my business with the same calm demeanour that I always have. Benjj, you are worrying way too much. Maybe you could have taken second rate civil defence precautions in the mid eighties, when nuclear paranoia was rife (you might even get a copy of protect and survive on Ebay). Not now. If anything, the world is slowly sinking in a sea ignorance, stupidity, TXTS 4 UR M8S, bad manners, selfishness and celebrity obsession; it is good to be heartless and cruel, because all that matters is the next new car and mobile phone. We went to war to 'liberate' the people of Iraq, but I wonder how many people in the coalition countries actually care about the iraqis? I bet all those who crowed for this war must be really upset now that around 10,000 civilians have been killed!
But I'm straying from the point...


And no, I'm not having a go at you, just the way that fear is taking hold of people more than hope and compassion ever has.

This is the way the world ends..not with a bang, but a whimper.

I live in Central Phoenix and, right after 9/11, I was very scared about what we would do if the big "IT" got us. I couldn't live that way. One day, driving down the street, I noticed the wild drivers, the drunks, and the general criminal element was a bigger statistical threat to me than foreign terrorism.
When you live in a big city and, in the heart of town, you learn to take certain precautions that are sensible, but don't interfere with day-to-day living. I decided I HAD to take the same approach to terrorism.
Yes, we keep bottled water on hand, but it's a sensible precaution for desert living. Yes, we have canned goods and extra meds, but that's just for a feeling of being in control. We've discussed what we would do if something awful should happen and decided that there would really be no truly safe place. Should the big "IT" occur, criminal gangs, anarchy, lawlessness etc., but but a huge aftereffect. So, we have decided to take our chances and live our lives. And yes, we do always keep our cars filled with gas, but that's because we think ahead...not because we think that it will help us reach a place of safety. At 52, we've become somewhat fatalistic. Maybe if we had young children, we'd feel differently, but since it's just my husband and myself, we prefer to keep on living...always watchful, but not hysterical or full of scenarios for doomsday. Doomsday could just as easily take the shape of a drunken driver in the wrong lane (personal doomsday that is).
I'm not completely immune to the fear of terrorism. I hate flying now, but it's something that has to be done. Would I choose to go to Greece this summer? No way. In that sense, I think it's just a sensible precaution, much as locking the car immediately upon getting in.
With all that said, there are some times, late, late at night when I DO worry...but, don't we all?
joey

Benjj,

If I still lived in the UK, I would have prepared my own car in exactly the same was as you have. Except I would include lots of drink and head straight to the Highlands of Scotland.

I feel that people have lost sight of what we are and the �war against terrorism� has contributed to the general levels of paranoia because its so easy. Even though there�s pretty much nothing any of us could do to prevent being a victim of a terrorist attack if we were unfortunate enough to find our selves in one ( I wonder how many people in the WTC building had emergency rations at home and gas masks in the boots of their cars ) its more comforting to solidify our fears into a single Big bad. At present its �terrorists� in the past it was the W2K virus, before that the Russians, the Germans, the Vikings, the tyrannosaurus Rex.

Even friends who agree with me still insist �but we should still be vigilant� well ok, but vigilant of what ? That guy in a turban ? that empty suit case ? those planes flying overhead?
If you answered all three then you may as well go live in a bunker, It won�t protect you if someone decides to drop a nuke on you but what the hell, maybe you�ll feel better.

It staggers me that millions of people do wonderful lovely things for their fellow human beings every day but the predominant feeling in the world is that something bad is going to happen to you.

In my experience, humans actually go out of their way to help their fellow man, to improve their life yet I rarely hear people say �Oh I�m really looking forward to my trip to another country next week, I expect loads of people will be nice to me and I�ll have a great time, I�m especially looking forward to the flight, chances of anything bad happening on one of them is about 1000X less likely than it would be driving to my office�

Stress which leads to paranoia, heart attacks, alcoholism, Is one of the biggest killers in this country and yet all these �vigilant� people are pouring stress onto themselves with futile attempts to protect themselves from an amorphous threat. Its strange.

I don�t know, I guess my message to everyone is relax a bit, the world is not an evil dangerous place, its a place where billions of people love and laugh and live and try to be happy and help their fellow man. That�s the presiding aspect of humanity. There are arse holes out there who want to hurt you but for every one of them, there�s 100 people who want to help.


[Edited on 9-5-2004 by Simon]

Simon, i am just wondering, if you feel like you should be relaxing and not worrying at all about anything, why join Above Top Secret?

I mean, a site with such a name and with the images it normally has on the top of the page about terrorism, yet you joined it.

I am not trying to diss you or anything, but joining a site like this, is "one big step to being informed about terrorism among other topics" on what is happening in the world, yet you are saying you are not worrying and people shouldn't be either....

[Edited on 9-5-2004 by Muaddib]

I guess I joined for exactly the same reason the people with fears joined. To communicate how we feel about the various situations going on in the world today and educate others using our own information and beliefs whilst at the same time hopefully gaining perspectives from people with views different to our own so we can get a more rounded understanding of how this crazy ass ride called life works.

I'm the flip side.

There�s a couple of dozen people here saying "be scared, the world in dangerous, feel afraid" And now there's me, saying "relax, chill, its not all that bad"

Originally posted by Simon
I guess I joined for exactly the same reason the people with fears joined. To communicate how we feel about the various situations going on in the world today and educate others using our own information and beliefs whilst at the same time hopefully gaining perspectives from people with views different to our own so we can get a more rounded understanding of how this crazy ass ride called life works.

I'm the flip side.

There�s a couple of dozen people here saying "be scared, the world in dangerous, feel afraid" And now there's me, saying "relax, chill, its not all that bad"

O.K you're the flip side thats cool but dont tell me your here to preach it sounds like it i'm not saying you cant but others will see it differently.

If you mean do I intend to push a theology, no, I�m an atheist
I�m simply interested in this �war on terror� specifically from the perspective of what that represents psychologically, I mean, a �war on terror� doesn�t that strike you as a strange thing for humanity as a whole to engage in, Its like our collective leaders sat down and said �y�know, I�m sick of that closet monster scaring our kids at night, Lets blow up the closet�

Strikes me as a little weird. I don�t have an agenda, simply after having read some of the posts here I feel some of you need a different perspective and I hope I can add that.


[Edited on 9-5-2004 by Simon]

O.K thats cool Simon but the whole point of ATS is to get people aware of what they arent aware of.

ah I see, would you like me to tell you what the loch Ness monster really is or would you like information regarding reptoids from the reticulus system living in New York sewers having grown to monstrous size ?

Becoming informed about a situation isn't all about "information" There�s plenty of "information" on this site and if I were to listen to all of it frankly I suspect I'd probably go insane.

Understanding the psychology of paranoia, conspiracy's and world politics is also a valid part of becoming "informed" about the world. That�s my area of expertise so I guess that�s what I'll try and contribute.

This site is all about peoples theories and what they've read o.k tell me about the Loch ness and dont forget solid proof or links

I don't know anything about the loch ness monster other than in the abstract.
If you want to discuss the psychology of such myths feel free to PM me however I feel that continuing this discussion here will derail the actual thread. This thread concerns suitcase bombs. I've said my piece on them. I don't feel I have anything else to add to the actual thread.

And I totally agree with you.

I don't get worried about the War on Terror. The whole point of it is that you are meant to be afraid and if you can see through that, you basically have an understanding that, whatever the media or government says, your chances of being killed by terrorists or rogue governments are no more than they have been for decades.

I don't believe that Western governments can run their countries' without the use of fear, any more than the states in the Middle East or elsewhere can run theirs without. It's just that the form of fear used against us is more subtle - mental rather than physical. We don't need to be beaten or tortured. We are far more suseptible to subliminal coercion through TV, movies, newspapers and a lot of other different mediums.

Once you learn not to fear your supposed enemy you can take a deeper look at those who claim that they are protecting you.
My belief is that, although there is some threat from terrorism, the War on Terrorism has been used as a means to subjugate the masses in the short term and to change the political face of the world in the long term.

This wasn't really what I had in mind when I posted this, but here we go anyway.

Simon, I do not live my daily life in terror of being exploded/imploded/impaled/gassed etc. I posted my question for two reasons:

1) With the exception of many people here on ATS, the general public can be a fickle beast at best. Panic would be rife during the 'aftershock' of a 9/11 style attack in the UK. I would be looking to either take or send my wife away from the capital, I simply thought that an adequately equipped mode of transport would do the job.

2) I also though that others might be interested to either a) give their own thoughts on what would be sensible to prepare, or b) say what they have done (or plan to do).

I am in complete agreement with you on not over-egging the situation and living your life. I don't know what line of work you are in Simon, but mine, as an employee of the British Government, has me at what some might refer to as the 'sharp end' of the daily threat to London.

I do stand by my earlier comments though; that you need to take a long look at how you approach a forum such as this and adjust your caustic language and demeanor accordingly.

B

Sorry, I'm perfectly happy with my demeanour and will post anything I like in any way I wish to. Thanks.

Personally I do see a society in panic. That people don't perceive the way we as a society are dealing with this "war on terror" as panic is more than a little worrying.

If you have the intelligence to prepare a survival "kit" for a terrorist attack then you are almost certainly intelligent enough to realise that such a kit is useless as the "threat" is too amorphous.

There are things that we try to prepare for. Quite sensibly. If it looks like it might rain, I take an umbrella to work. I purchase travel insurance when I go abroad. It is good to take precautions.

However taking precautions when the threat cannot be distinguished is not a rational action. Its demonstrative of a panicked mind that try's to find a solution simply because it needs reassurance even though it knows there's nothing it can really do.

Its like the old "duck and cover" routine. Useless, but serving to reduce psychological panic.

In this case however we are not in the shadow of an imminent A-Bomb attack. Media is simply encouraging us to think we are. If you are taking "terrorism" into account in your every day life then, like it or not, you are experiencing Paranoia facilitating panicked actions.

I'm not trying to get at you ( your imediate implied assumption that I was somehow belitteling your actions through my stance being a perfect example of someone who has developed a paranoid complex ) I'm simply providing another perspective on the situation, one that suggests that preparing for ambiguos threats is not a rational way for a society to behave and may be indicative of collective paranoia we should maybe tackle before it becomes consuming.

Simon,

I did not feel belittled or gotten at, that's the beauty of the internet as you are nothing more than name on a screen (as I am to you).

Paranoia aside, and I am not going to argue this point with you, preparing in advance for a potentially immediate evacuation of your current location is a logical and sensible precaution to take. I am not going to try and convice others that it is a prerequisite, but put simply it makes me feel 'comfortable.'

I am not scared, worried or even, dare I say it, paranoid. There is a threat, we live with it every day, and the contents of this post were aimed at like minded people. My post was/is clear and articulate, and rather than skip over it as something you didn't think was relevant you decided to add your comments.

Let's just leave it here shall we.

B

What would be the point of discussing a topic with like minded people ?

Sorry but I feel my take is puissant. You invited people to discuss a hypothetical "big one" and what would be needed in order to flee the capital.

I suspect the fact that you don't specify what "the big one" is probably explains why very few people have done that. I mean, what do you need to flee the capital ? er... legs. Well I guess that's my survival kit right there in my trousers.

You don't suggest an invading force, a chemical attack on the water supply, A nuke going off on Canary Warf, Giant flying robotic sharks, all these would require different survival kits. You don't say whether you intend to go to the hills to live a self sufficient life style for a couple of generations to protect yourself from a country gone mad, or whether you're just escaping the blast radius for a couple of days till the authorities clear up the mess.

So on that level, the invitation in your initial post is an impossible one to effectively answer.

For my part, because of this ambiguous threat I chose to discuss whether a survival kit was a rational thing to create in the first place. Others seem to agree that its an issue so I would humbly suggest that I am both on topic and contributing to the discussion.

If you want to argue about that feel free to PM me. If you want to discuss survival kits please detail the actual scenario. I think people will contribute to your initial post more readily if they had a few more details.

[Edited on 10-5-2004 by Simon]

I'll take the liberty of quoting myself on this one I think.

Originally posted by benjj
Let's just leave it here shall we.

B

As a footnote, I've never had a problem with getting people to reply to my posts. I notice, however, that your ten or so posts on ATS thus far have been either negative, p*ss-taking, or both.