An Atheist's God

This boils down to the difference between atheist and antitheist. An antitheist outright rejects the existence of a god in any sense. An atheist, while usually siding with this sentiment, is also capable of being a person who believes in a god outside the sense of traditional theism.

Theism in the broadest sense is the belief in at least one deity. In a more specific sense, theism refers to a particular doctrine concerning the nature of God and his relationship to the universe. Theism, in this specific sense, conceives of God as personal and active in the governance and organization of the world and the universe.

Theism

I am an atheist in that I believe in the possibility of a grand consciousness manifesting at a much higher level than any other but, I don't believe that this manifestation of consciousness is all-powerful. It is a creation of the universe instead of the other way around. In this sense, it is no more powerful than you or I and is just an execution of the one big system that is the universe. While it may or may not have power over the objects and forces it can govern at a high level, there are certain things beyond its ability.

This thought process in deeply rooted in the ever present argument "Well if god/the creator created the universe, what created god/the creator?" This might also tend to favor a holographic universe model but doesn't necessarily have to. My belief on this isn't fixed as I'm always looking for a better answer to increasingly difficult questions. This is the best I've come up with to date.

So it is impersonal and just functions without emotion. God is not a person. But it can create people who do have emotions. So why would this program not create a person who appears to exercise the powers of the program, and call himself God?

I would consider you to be agnostic. Meaning, without knowledge of god, and I don't consider that to be atheism. I think many who say they are atheist actually fall into the agnostic category.

But on the "all powerful" part. Just remember that part of having free will is the ability to give it away. Only if that wasn't allowed would the father not be "all powerful".

This goes to the riddle - can god create a rock he can not lift. And the answer is yes, because it is simply a choice. He can choose to create a rock that has the rule that he can not lift it. If he wants to lift it, then he would just change the rule and the "riddle" would be over at that point.

Now, it might seem a bit silly at first glance to give away free will, but we as humans do it all the time subconsciously for certain experiences.

Take a poker game. Nothing physical stops you from looking at or knowing all the cards. But you agree to give away that in order to have the experience of the game. If everyone knew what all the cards were, then the game couldn't really exist, nobody would ever bet except on the hands they would know they would win. So we agree to the rules of the game, just as in the riddle.

There is a higher consciousness as you mention, and it is "you", "me" and "us", past, present and future, on this world and many others. Consciousness is eternal, it just "is". Consciousness creates logic, and that logic are the "rules" of this creation/universe and a giving up of free will for the experience of life. If you knew all, it would be no different than knowing all the cards of the poker game, the experience itself would be lost.

Originally posted by Eitimzevinten

I am an atheist in that I believe in the possibility of a grand consciousness manifesting at a much higher level than any other but, I don't believe that this manifestation of consciousness is all-powerful.

Then you are not an atheist It may seem this entity isn't all-powerful because it's not trying to exercise its power in every possible situation - maybe not.....

Like you said, it's operating at a much higher level - than us. There are actually things that don't make sense at a certain perspective, but starts to make sense at the higher perspective!

Think of humanity like a butterfly in pupa stage. If we humans helped every single butterfly out of its cocoon, no butterfly would ever fly... We have the power to help the butterfly, but we don't exercise that power because we know, it will ruin it....

I'm not saying that that is the same case going on in our world, but hope that gets the idea delivered

reply to post by badmedia


Agnostics don't care to know so they don't pursue it. They say its too complicated to understand and they wash their hands of it. That isn't me. As I said, this isn't my concrete belief system, this is just what I've come up with at the moment and as such, it is subject to change. I searched to find a term that encompasses this kind of belief and atheism was the best match as I saw it.

Atheism sounds better than Antitheism which is what a good bit of athiests actually practice (the stern belief of no god(s)). Atheism the opposite of theism which can be interpreted many ways to mean a couple different things. I see where you could get agnostic out of that but, to my understanding, agnostics don't try to look into the matter further. Overall I may very well be an Agnostic that actively pursues an answer (if there is room in its definition for such a thing) but at this current point, I believe the belief leans toward atheism in that it allows the existence of a god but is different from that of traditional theistic views. Its different in that there are things beyond its control and not by its own choosing.

Originally posted by Eitimzevinten
reply to post by badmedia

 

Agnostics don't care to know so they don't pursue it. They say its too complicated to understand and they wash their hands of it. That isn't me. As I said, this isn't my concrete belief system, this is just what I've come up with at the moment and as such, it is subject to change. I searched to find a term that encompasses this kind of belief and atheism was the best match as I saw it.

Atheism sounds better than Antitheism which is what a good bit of athiests actually practice (the stern belief of no god(s)). Atheism the opposite of theism which can be interpreted many ways to mean a couple different things. I see where you could get agnostic out of that but, to my understanding, agnostics don't try to look into the matter further. Overall I may very well be an Agnostic that actively pursues an answer (if there is room in its definition for such a thing) but at this current point, I believe the belief leans toward atheism in that it allows the existence of a god but is different from that of traditional theistic views. Its different in that there are things beyond its control and not by its own choosing.

I was once an atheist. I came to realize who arrogant of me it was to say that because something hadn't crossed my small perspective of even the tiny universe doesn't exist. So I then changed from atheist to agnostic.

When I was agnostic, I just said - I don't know, but I doubt anyone else does either. Since I realized I didn't know, I started to seek the truth. And after doing that seeking, I became gnostic, or with understanding and knowledge.

When I went from atheist to agnostic, I was really just humbling myself. When I went from agnostic to gnostic, it was because I was searching for truth, understand, wisdom and the way. I wasn't agnostic because I didn't care, or because I didn't want to know. It was just the honest truth of my situation for the time, I simply did not know.

There are things that Jesus and the bible describes that are actual things/events which will happen to you. Such as being born of the spirit. The day that happened was the day I went from agnostic to gnostic. You know what I was doing at that exact moment? I was looking for "the way". I didn't know it was "the way", but I looked out at society and was looking at how people must act towards one another. And as I started to think about it, it became clear to me. And then bam, just like that I have a vision and meet the father, and know John 14:20 for myself. This was followed by a period of about 1 month where I gained understanding of many other things. Basically everything I asked I could find understanding for. I still get that now, but I don't have the questions I did during that month etc.

These changes didn't happen overnight. I think this is a bit of a natural progression. I don't think any of those positions are "bad" in themselves, except should one just accept and no longer search for understanding. I've seriously been through all these view points before the one I have now.

However, I do not consider myself to be a Christian. I think Christianity as a whole/organized religion is a false religion. Which may not make much sense, as I am a huge fan of Jesus and the bible, but it's a topic in itself.

So as far as agnostic vs atheist, I'm just going off my own experience and what I thought during the times when my viewpoints and such were changing.

[edit on 7/9/2009 by badmedia]

I was raised religious and as such, always helped people when I could growing up. I never bothered to question it because the whole karmic sentiment of "treat others how you would like to be treated" made sense. As I grew older though, I became aware that for one reason or another, that karma train would never make its way back to me. People who cheated and stole were never held accountable for their actions yet they received plenty of awards.

I am simply trying to find out exactly what a god would be in the context of the universe just out of sheer curiosity with no intention of ever worshipping or acknowledging said god's standing in the universe. I am not seeking enlightenment, just information. Its a scientific endeavor, nothing more.

reply to post by Eitimzevinten


It says seek and you will find. You said yourself you asked no questions. Now, did you seek at that time, or did you accept?

How else does one seek except to ask questions? This is why I am not a Christian, they are based mostly on acceptance, rather than understanding. That is not what Jesus was about. He spoke in parables to give understanding. The disciples questioned him over and over, and he gave them understanding in return.

As for what people do and cheat and steal etc, you need to understand where you are, and why. Genesis stuff really. It doesn't really matter what you believe, we certainly do live among evil and can understand the difference between good and evil, and gain the wisdom to choose correctly. It's a topic in itself.