Richard C. Hoagland, Lunar 'Smoking Gun' ??

The standard cliche regarding evidence is the so-called "smoking gun"; that one crucial piece which, by itself, clearly "proves the case."

Well, in terms of NASA -- and what they've been hiding on the Moon for over 40 years -- we finally seem to have that piece--

Our long-awaited Smoking Gun.

To understand the true dimensions of this startling and very recent development, we have to begin "at the beginning"; we have to start with the launch of NASA's first unmanned return mission to the Moon in over ten years ....

www.enterprisemission.com...

Apparently, it is this image on the right that is causing all the fuss,
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6afdeb0aaaac.jpg[/atsimg]

This is an infrared image of the Moon, taken by one of the two "mid-IR" LCROSS cameras during the initial swing-by. This is exactly as this IR image initially appeared on the official NASA LCROSS website, in the early hours of June 23rd.

Study it carefully--

For it contains essential clues to, not only a tumultuous "inside NASA" revolt apparently now on-going within the LCROSS mission itself ... but, extraordinary visual evidence confirming the existence of our Enterprise model of "a set of ancient lunar domes" ....

Behold, our "smoking gun."

How, I'm not entirely sure myself.. I'm no expert when it comes to spacial bodies showing examples of being a smoking gun. All I can see is an IR image of what I presume to be heat and radiation emitting from the surface.

Why this area is important is a bit of a mystery to me seeing as the crater these craft are going to crash into is in the 'always dark' side of the moon.

I'm sure there will be someone here who can see something in this image that others seem to be seeing in the linked report.. I'd love to know what's going on.. They are yet to give their full explanation so we must all wait for 'part 2' unless someone here on ATS can answer before they do

I have no idea what on earth he's talking about (get it?). But the image he's using to see whatever it is he's seeing (other some color bleed) is this:

A preliminary mosaic of images from the far-side of the moon taken by the LCROSS the mid-infrared camera. These are the first thermal images of the far-side of the moon. The colors represent measured lunar surface temperatures, with reds being the hottest (+158 F or +70 C) and the bluish-purple being the coldest (-148 F or -100 C). Temperatures are effected by several factors including shadows, like those cast by crater central peaks and walls, and by surface properties, such as reflectivity. The images were taken during the mission's lunar swingby on June 23, 2009 as the spacecraft flew from the south pole north.

www.nasa.gov...

Here's the version he used. Still don't see anything.


[edit on 7/8/2009 by Phage]

I really think there is something on the moon and it's very weard that
wms.selene.jaxa.jp...
www.isro.gov.in...
have not been releasing any new images i mean kaguya allready crashed into moon after finishing mission why are we still wating for new images.

I'm a little confused as to what exactly is being presented here but I think that the idea is that the 'dome' (crater) is hot in the thermal image so is therefore not natural, If I've totally missed the point here then let me know!

If that is the case however, My interpretation would be that the crater in question has possibly absorbed slightly more thermal energy than the surrounding terrain because of the smaller particle size and therefore larger surface area of the lunar dust within the crater. Just a thought, but a logical one.

reply to post by mars1


I heard that both JAXA and the ISRO plan release the data from there probes later this year. I think they just want to give time to allow there scientists to study all the data first before releasing it.

As for Hoagland... I have no idea what he's going on about here.

reply to post by jra


Why do they need all this time to study them they could Release them and still study them unless they are just making sure there is nothing in them.

Isn't the rainbow one of the gay pride symbols? Is the moon gay or are the aliens on it gay? Maybe that's why we're not getting disclosure, all the speculation on people not being able to "handle it" might be true - what would all the religious/homophobic types do?

If this photo from Hoagland is supposed to be some sort of a smoking gun, why doesn't he explain EXACTLY why? why not describe in detail how or why he feels this way or how has come to his conclusion of this being a "smoking gun"?

I dont see anything out of the ordinary in his photo, but its early here and Im tired.

Originally posted by mars1
Why do they need all this time to study them they could Release them and still study them unless they are just making sure there is nothing in them.

I see it as them just wanting "first dibs" on there own data, so to speak. If there are any interesting scientific discoveries to be made. I think they'd like to be the ones that make it. I don't believe there is any devious reason behind it.

Anyway I'm going off topic, sorry.

Looking again and Hoagland's stuff. Is he thinking the whole red area in the mid-ir photo is a giant dome? I really don't get it. I guess I'll have to wait for "part 2" which will contain the, "technical details and the fascinating political intrigue"!

[edit on 8-7-2009 by jra]

Originally posted by Extralien
...I'm no expert when it comes to spacial bodies showing examples of being a smoking gun. All I can see is an IR image of what I presume to be heat and radiation emitting from the surface.

Yes -- that was in IR thermal camera. The parts of the Moon shown in red are the parts getting the most direct sunlight -- thus they will be warmer. as the moon curves away from the Sunlight, the light is less direct and it will be colder.

The same thing happens on Earth...the parts of the earth in the direct mid-day sun are warmer than the parts in the less-direct sunlit areas of morning and evening.

Why this area is important is a bit of a mystery to me seeing as the crater these craft are going to crash into is in the 'always dark' side of the moon.

You may be a little confused...

...Yes, they are crashing a part of the LCROSS probe into a permanently dark part of the Moon, but it isn't the "always dark side" of the Moon, because there is no "dark side" of the Moon. There is a "far side" of the Moon that is always facing away from Earth -- but the far side gets lit by the Sun just as equally as the near side (the side that DOES always face Earth). At the times of the Moon's cycle when all we see is a little sliver of the moon from Earth, that's when the "far side" is lit by the Sun.

The place that the LCROSS is crashing is in a crater near the Moon's south pole. It IS true that this crater is in permanent darkness, but the crater isn't dark because it's on the [non-existent] "dark side" of the Moon, but rather for two other reasons:

1. It's in a crater
2. It's on the south pole, so the sunlight is not direct, but "sideways"

Think about it -- since the sun's rays are more "sideways" at the poles, some deep craters there will be always in darkness, because the sides of the craters permanently block the sideways rays of the Sun.


[edit on 7/8/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Originally posted by Chonx
I'm a little confused as to what exactly is being presented here but I think that the idea is that the 'dome' (crater) is hot in the thermal image so is therefore not natural, If I've totally missed the point here then let me know!

If that is the case however, My interpretation would be that the crater in question has possibly absorbed slightly more thermal energy than the surrounding terrain because of the smaller particle size and therefore larger surface area of the lunar dust within the crater. Just a thought, but a logical one.

The crater probably isn't any warmer that the other parts of the moon in the most direct sunlight (the red parts) -- so it's not a "hot spot".

Yes -- it's true that the areas immediately surrounding the crater are orange (and therefore cooler), but that's most likely because the area of crater ejecta forms a "hill" around the crater, thus the Sun's rays will not be as direct on the sloping sides of the crater as it would in the flat center.


[edit on 7/8/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

How the hell can they say that thry have found a set of Lunar Domes???

Its this sort of stuff that really hacks me off. Now, i do believe the moon has many secrets to reveal but this kind of stuff is just laughed at and makes us "believers" look like a bunch of lunatics.

If you want to see somethinga little more impressive then you can look at this...

Source = www.lpi.usra.edu...

This can be found at the bottom right of the picture.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4cf00b08ca28.jpg[/atsimg]



[edit on 10-7-2009 by stevecc]

No one is touching on Hoagland's point here. This is NOT about the crater. There are several important aspects to this.

One would expect a uniform color band from cold to hot running from the terminator line to the pole facing the sun. This is seen in the photo running from blue to red. Beyond the crater near the edge of the photo there is a yellow band right next to open space. This should be red. What he claims your are seeing is the dome.

The angle of the photo is what allows this to be seen. The dome extends out beyond the moon from that angle. Since the dome is damaged the camera is seeing hot from the dome surface and cold from space in the holes of the damaged dome. Thus the mid range yellow band. The length of the band is gigantic, thus if it is a dome it is huuuge. I think more is to come from him on this but he claims this is expected and reasonable considering the gravity and technology of ancient astronauts.

Lastly, the photo was apparently sneaked out of NASA so this information could be seen. A mole or conflict on the LCROSS team....


Not sure I believe the photo shows this but this is what he is claiming to be the "smoking gun".

First post by the way!

reply to post by austra

"Sneaked out"? I don't think so. This is from a NASA website.
www.nasa.gov...

There is nothing there. What Hoagland is talking about is pixelation. It is not a high resolution image.

Phage,

You seem to be a rational guy and i enjoy reading your posts. Do you have any views on the image i have presented in the previous post.

some people are saying its a dust speck or an image artifact, however the object does appear to be there nestled amongst the rock.

Regards
Steve

reply to post by austra

I've already explained what the yellow and orange is surrounding the crater:

The walls around the crater (i.e. a "ridge") are sloped, and the sloped walls of the ridge do not get direct sunlight because they are not perpendicular to the sun's rays, like the "red" portions are. THEREFORE they are cooler (yellow and orange).

So, the floor of that crater (what you call a "dome") is warm (red) because it's flat and roughly perpendicular to the Sun's rays. The flat surface to the "right" of the crater is warm (red) because it, too, is perpendicular to the Sun's rays. HOWEVER, the sloped walls of the crater are yellow and orange because they are not perpendicular to the Sun's rays.

-----------------------------

And I feel I need to reiterate what Phage said because it's important, and I don't want people to miss Phage's response...
...that photo was openly released to the public by NASA, and is in fact still on NASA's LCROSS website here:

NASA LCROSS

...it was not "sneaked out by a mole".


[edit on 7/17/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]

Give Hoagland some time folks!


If he says it's "THE" smoking gun, I will give him time to present his case. Consider this the "teaser".

HA my first double post!



[edit on 17-7-2009 by bismarcksea]