Let's Start an Income Tax Revolt

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
So in other words your just moving the cost of income tax from one side to another? So at the end of the day it doesnt make any difference really, unless ofcourse you dont use fuel? And what happens if there isnt enough to pay for the roads due to less demand? What then? Too bad?

Do you think your taxes just pays for roads, for public schools, for the military? Theres a long list and yet you folks cant find the common sense to actually look it up.

Converting tax from one side to another is all of a sudden going to solve the issue. You fail to realize the influx of americans across the Canadian and mexican borders for fuel on a daily basis as well. Seriously now.

Your income taxes don't pay for roads or stuff like that

The fiscal year 2004 federal budget is about $2 trillion. The spending in percentages this year looks like this:
26.2%—military
22.6%—interest on the debt
19%—health care
5.5%—income security
3.4%—veterans’ benefits
3.3%—education
2.5%—nutrition spending
1.6%—housing
1.6%—environment
11.4%—everything else

Looking at it a different way, if you had $1,500 deducted from your paychecks as an “income” tax and your tax dollars were directly applied to government expenses, your contributions by category would be:
$393—military
$339—interest on national debt
$285—healthcare
$83—income security
$51—veterans’ benefits
$48—education
$38—nutrition spending
$24—housing
$24—environmental protection
$216—everything else

But, if the Grace Commission is correct, then not one penny of income tax money is actually being spent on services the American People expect their government to provide.

So what is funding government? Tax researcher Richard Standring believes the U.S. funds itself with loans from the International Monetary Fund (IMF).

truthintaxation.us...

Sales and other taxes pay for that stuff, not income tax

that is for the year 2004, before the situation we are now in

here's a generic breakdown:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b19a7ee57334.jpg[/atsimg]
www.cbpp.org...



other resources:
www.msnbc.msn.com...
www.warresisters.org...



[edit on 6-7-2009 by warrenb]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


You don't even know what you're talking about and you're jumping down the throats of others with your own misguided information. Every tax you stated comes from other places than the Federal Income tax. So are you ignorant, or are others?

Property tax, fuel tax, sales tax, inheritence tax, and death tax pays for a lot of what you're talking about.

The "FEDERAL INCOME TAX" goes to the Treasury, which makes payments to the Federal Reserve, for money that it created out of thin air.

Here's a pie chart I found that pretty cut and dry. Notice the 5% of "physical resources" and 11% "general government" and compare that to what we're paying on interest for the two wars.

You go, tiger.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
i think the only way to really send a message is through the banking and credit bureau systems. somehow.

but good luck trying to get the majority of americans to do anything.

Sending a clear message is easy to do:

Cut your credit cards in half. Do it now.

Less radical? Do not use your credit cards for a month and encourage others to do the same. That would be some message if some 10 million people would do this.

I opted for the more radical approach.

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues
Very little of the Federal Income tax goes towards anything except the interest of debt we "owe" to the federal reserve

Complete garbage, and for somebody who wanted to join the army where the heck do you think that $500 billion expenditure comes from? And what else exactly pays for roads? can you provide some evidence? Here let me list you the other taxes:

Retirement Taxes-are you retired?
Tariffs-are you importing any goods?
Tolls-how ofton do you go on 6hour drive? do you think this will be sufficient to pay your roads? Howmany tolls are in your state?
Inheritance Taxes- did you inherit millions?

In other words the only taxes your bound to are really income taxes, the rest apply seperately or together for a fraction of the population, this notion that fraction pays for the large demands of our nation is ignorant. Given our huge population, our large infastructure demands, are you really that naive to think without income taxes that fraction will pay for the rest of us? The entire myth about income taxes going to debt is outdated, seriously. I find it funny however that in the last 30years over 80% of our debt could be accounted for "fiscally conservative" anti-tax presidents.



[edit on 6-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by warrenb


You know what's weird about these pie charts. They say that very little is going towards debt, but I wonder how they determine what "debt" that is. Because we're broke and as our peace candidate and congress just passed some ungodly 106 Billion dollar SUPPLEMENTAL war bill, which of course was borrowed, how can everything not be borrowed? Every move we make it drawn up in contracts and 0's are transfered to the government tab. We still have wealth, but our capitol:debt ratio has to be insane.

Originally posted by warrenb

The fiscal year 2004 federal budget is about $2 trillion. The spending in percentages this year looks like this:
26.2%—military
22.6%—interest on the debt
19%—health care
5.5%—income security
3.4%—veterans’ benefits
3.3%—education
2.5%—nutrition spending
1.6%—housing
1.6%—environment
11.4%—everything else

Looking at it a different way, if you had $1,500 deducted from your paychecks as an “income” tax and your tax dollars were directly applied to government expenses, your contributions by category would be:
$393—military
$339—interest on national debt
$285—healthcare
$83—income security
$51—veterans’ benefits
$48—education
$38—nutrition spending
$24—housing
$24—environmental protection
$216—everything else

So in reality your saying lets not pay anymore income taxes, so lets not have a military anymore, who cares about our debt, everyman for himself, who cares about the men and woman who served our nation, lets cut education, who cares about our national part, the nation is free right?

What we essentially end up with are minor taxes that take care of our streets. Its all good.

[edit on 6-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

reply to post by Southern Guardian


That's not true at all. Warren and I have showed you where your money goes. Do you not listen?

Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax

Weird... I found all these taxes that cover everything you're talking about that have nothing to do with the federal income tax or even the federal government with the exception of a few.

You've been demanding everybody else to "learn," I suggest you catch up some learning yourself there, guy.

reply to post by DeadFlagBlues


Your buddy here just showed me how many things actually depended on income tax, including the military, defense, housing and schools. Essentially ending income tax will be cutting those services off. What more, you folks have never seen this system place... but yes its some conspiracy right? or maybe the majority of folks are smart enough to realize it doesnt work.

Essentially your talking with nothing to support it but "speculation". Lets cut off all these services above and all would be dandy.

Im done here, its really a dead end arguing with you folks. Hey, 2010 and 2012 is on the way, why dont you set up a party and see whether folks will agree.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
Complete garbage, and for somebody who wanted to join the army where the heck do you think that $500 billion expenditure comes from? And what else exactly pays for roads? can you provide some evidence? Here let me list you the other taxes:

Retirement Taxes-are you retired?
Tariffs-are you importing any goods?
Tolls-how ofton do you go on 6hour drive? do you think this will be sufficient to pay your roads? Howmany tolls are in your state?
Inheritance Taxes- did you inherit millions?

In other words the only taxes your bound to are really income taxes, the rest apply seperately or together for a fraction of the population, this notion that fraction pays for the large demands of our nation is ignorant. Given our huge population, our large infastructure demands, are you really that naive to think without income taxes that fraction will pay for the rest of us? The entire myth about income taxes going to debt is outdated, seriously. I find it funny however that in the last 30years over 80% of our debt could be accounted for "fiscally conservative" anti-tax presidents.
[edit on 6-7-2009 by Southern Guardian]

here's an article from the government itself:

Washington State County Engineers Article – Number 24 of a Series in 2004
File Name: Article 24-04 Who Pays.Doc
Page 1 of 2 July 4, 2004

Who pays for County Roads? The simple answer is “The User Does.” Let’s look at county road fund sources. From 1996 thru 2001, County Road Departments received about 11% from the federal government. 28% came from the state. Federal and state dollars are mostly fuel taxes. 61% came from county taxes. Most federal funds, 70%, come from the federal fuel tax. These dollars are for specific projects. The other 30% comes from the federal forest tax, and other miscellaneous grants. Federal funds can vary a lot from year to year. Nearly all state funds come from the state motor vehicle fuel tax. 63% is sent directly to each county. Additional state fuel tax funds are distributed for specific projects. They come through the County Road Administration Board at 17% and Transportation Improvement Board at 11%. The remaining 9% is from other state grants.

www.crab.wa.gov...

and as for what percentage goes to pay the national debt, how about the Washington State Law School as a source:

The amount collected from income tax greatly exceeds the amount spent on interest on the national debt every year. For example, in 2006, the individual income tax raised $1.04 trillion. The government’s net interest expense in 2006 was $226 billion. That’s about 20% of individual income tax revenues, not 100%.
Twenty percent of all income taxes is a lot of money. Interest on the national debt is a big amount and the national debt is a legitimate concern. But it’s not remotely true to say that all income taxes go to pay interest. Net interest is only about 1/5 of annual income tax revenue.

docs.law.gwu.edu...

mkay

[edit on 6-7-2009 by warrenb]

"100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt ... all
individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services
taxpayers expect from government."
-Grace Commission report submitted to President Ronald Reagan - January 15, 1984


Perhaps youll rethink your position, SG?

Originally posted by Southern Guardian
reply to post by DeadFlagBlues

 

Your buddy here just showed me how many things actually depended on income tax, including the military, defense, housing and schools. Essentially ending income tax will be cutting those services off. What more, you folks have never seen this system place... but yes its some conspiracy right? or maybe the majority of folks are smart enough to realize it doesnt work.

Essentially your talking with nothing to support it but "speculation". Lets cut off all these services above and all would be dandy.

Im done here, its really a dead end arguing with you folks. Hey, 2010 and 2012 is on the way, why dont you set up a party and see whether folks will agree.

The only person that mentioned conspiracy in the thread was you.

Government and university websites are nothing but speculative sources?

You're creating the arguments with yourself. We give you evidence from multiple sources and you continue to deny it all. We aren't trying to convince you, just show you that you may want to verify your own sources or at least do a google search.

yes 2010 and 2012 are coming. they are years coming in the future as time passes by. usually people party on new years eve. it's quite common in countries around the world. maybe google it?

look at the big baby begging for attention.

look at me look at me! everyone listen to what i have to say, it's so important that i'm not goign to provide any links or facts whatsoever and then claim no one else is even though they are! and then i'll just yell louder and louder until someone pops a nipple into my mouth.

gj southern gaurdian, ats is now your new family.

i'm setting your bedtime at 7pm. go to sleep.

Around 1 in 6 americans do not pay taxes

With Only 1% of Individual Returns Being Audited and 16% of People Simply Not Paying Their Taxes, Will Even More People Stop Paying Too?

According to an IRS spokesperson in an article about anti-war tax resistance, 16.3% of Americans are in non-compliance with their taxes according to the Associated Press. That isn't fudging the numbers or coming up with creative tax deductions;
Around 1 in 6 Americans Do Not Pay Their Taxes
it's simply evading taxes outright. While the story about the anti-war movement calling on people to not pay taxes to protest the war is interesting, the fact that a growing number of Americans are simply evading taxes is startling.

As fewer and fewer people get prosecuted for tax evasion, more and more individuals will likely feel safe in either "embellishing" details to reduce their taxes or simply not pay them all together.

Sounds more like you missed the train, it's already happening. 1 in 6, thats like all the cool kids are doing it already.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

Business and non-business entities fund education primarily through tax payments to local and state governments. This analysis identifies the state and local tax revenues that provide education funding, and apportions that revenue between business and nonbusiness taxpayers.

Under "CONCLUSIONS."

The analysis of “Who Pays for Education?” indicates that non-business taxpayers pay nearly three quarters of the total education-bound tax dollars. Below the aggregate level the ratios vary, but in few cases do the business taxpayers contribute a greater portion than the non-business taxpayers. For example:

At the state level, business pays slightly more than a third of taxes; non-business payers contribute nearly two-thirds.

Local property tax is the greatest revenue source for education, providing nearly 40 percent of these funds. No other single tax source approaches that level of revenue production.

State and local taxes on income produce 22 percent of education-bound tax revenue.

Sales taxes provide more than 17 percent of tax revenue going to education.

State corporation taxes produce 10 percent of education-bound tax revenue.

The relationships described above can be used to provide some insight into a variety of existing proposals for school finance reform. For example, the property tax, the largest single revenue source for education, is the most frequent target of reform proposals.

Source

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Around 1 in 6 americans do not pay taxes

interesting read

You think that's interesting? Check this...

Brief history of the IRS(actual .gov site)

Here are some of the best parts for those who hate reading a link

Origin The roots of IRS go back to the Civil War when President Lincoln and Congress, in 1862, created the position of commissioner of Internal Revenue and enacted an income tax to pay war expenses. The income tax was repealed 10 years later. Congress revived the income tax in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional the following year.

Just know this....They ONLY audit FILED RETURNS. And 1% of those that ARE FILED!!


[edit on 6-7-2009 by LordBaskettIV]

reply to post by LordBaskettIV


I knew that bit

it's why the US is in a permanent state of war with someone or something

it allows the fraud to perpetuate

I had no idea that so many people were already not filing income tax returns. When one of Obama's cabinet picks was revealed to have not paid taxes for several years, one of the talking heads on the tube announced that over 100,000 federal employees don't file income tax returns and I remember thinking whether the entire federal beaurocracy already knows that the income tax is illegal.

The question of how the federal government will be funded without income tax is not as absurd as it sounds. How did the federal government fund it's operation before the income tax amendment was implimented? Excise taxes, import duties, and charging fees for services is that answer but in these modern times, there are other sources that weren't available in the 19th century. If every financial transaction incurred a 1% tax, that would generate a huge amount of revenue. Trillions of $ change hands every year in foreign exchange, stocks, bonds and commodities markets, etc. My personal favourite is an estate tax that allows the first 1 or 2 million $ passed on free of tax and then a hefty 50% tax on the rest. It's the multi-generational accumulation of wealth that allows families like the Rockerfellers to get so rich, they think they can rule the world.

One more comment. No income tax means no tax on salaries and wages. The constitution does NOT prohibit taxes on profits as in capital gains from making a profit on land, stocks, real and intangible property.

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by DeadFlagBlues

In other words the only taxes your bound to are really income taxes, the rest apply seperately or together for a fraction of the population, this notion that fraction pays for the large demands of our nation is ignorant.

Are you saying people have a choice not to be taxed by not purchasing items or driving?

Just like homeless make the choice to be hungry because they are lazy and need to take a shower.

Reply to post by Studenofhistory

ummm, i'm already revolting if that's your idea of revolt. I haven't paid taxes in 3 years. I started a new job and wrote exempt on the w-2. Haven't had any problems yet. But if i happen to get audited, I got money to hire a Private Investigator to dig up dirt to blackmail the auditor, thats my backup plan.
Not really for revolting or nothing, I just don't think it's fair 25% of my income went to the govt while people above a million could claim all kinds of write offs and only pay 10% or less while they're well-fed and taken care of and I was struggling.
But I agree, if more people did this things might change


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