*WHY* do you believe (or not believe) in a certain religion?

Well i think religion gives me a lot of answers that science will never be able to give me. The way i see it is that science is great for explaining the mechanics of the physical universe. Science cannot however explain anything supernatural or spiritual because of they are outside the area of science.
Some people have a hard time grasping that concept. The best way to look at it is that the subject of Astronomy cannot teach you how to write a book. They are not opposites just different areas of knowledge.

reply to post by Divinorumus


I COMPLETELY agree with you my friend. Perhaps the word "Deprogram" you used is the most proper term to describe all closed mindedness and society. I would also give you 50 stars if I could. Very well said indeed!

reply to post by max.is.awake


The anti-christ movement huh? Perhaps the anti-christ movement is a good thing. Freedom from religion for once maybe? Freedom to not be plagued by endless false logic and conversion tactics. Maybe the only reason the anti-christ is so despised and awful to those religious is because it inflicts upon their lack of logic. Believe me its better than religion inflicting me. As a matter of fact religion is my anti- christ since your anti-christ seems like something freeing to me.

How about the truth and freedom movement. It is pointless to try to argue my point with you and I will simply say regardless of logic and facts, the mind sees what it wants to...

reply to post by max.is.awake


If such an event did occur which I do not doubt - you have enough proof for yourself.

I just feel that there are many out there who do not even bother to question the religion, and life itself.


reply to post by TheMythLives


Yes, but people do those actions in the name of religion. All I am saying is that it is a tool to separate people more than to join people, on a global scale at least.

Just like saying nukes don't kill, people kill people! Then why are nukes frowned upon...

While it is true, religion has its implications in the scheme of things as well.

Regardless of that, there will ALWAYS be something that joins one group of people and separates another, and when one disappears, another one pops up. To me though, that is human nature to battle one problem that is rising, and then battle the next. Never a permanent solution.

About physics and logic. My personal opinion is that while all of the current questions will be answered (except the "big" one), new ones will always arise. It will just take time for us to learn how gravity and other puzzles operate.

I have always had religious tolerance, but just questions. It seems that it really does not matter. All of our opinions on how everything was created hold just as much weight as another (the papa smurf one might be one of the crazier ones though ).

Not here to argue my point is more valid over yours, because that never gets far.

One more thing. I agree with you that it would be pointless for us to know why we are here (how could very well be answered though). To me, there isn't a reason, and that is what gives us free will.

Since there is not a reason, it just means we get to play in a giant playground. No consequences besides that of which we give each other. No heaven, no hell.

Wow, OP, you have a religiously-themed thread that is so far civil. Congratulations, and I hope it remains such.

And since it is civil, I will answer the question (in a civil manner, of course):

I was raised in a Southern Baptist household, though not as fervent as one might expect from the Southern Baptists in general. We were in church pretty much every Sunday morning, although Sunday and Wednesday afternoons were rare. I attended two churches during my youth with my family, and both were beset by anger and prejudice and personal greed, three things that were preached against from the pulpit. So, like many people do, I decided this Christianity thing had to be full of holes and tore out on my own to find the 'truth'.

I tried sex. It was fun, but there was this looming specter of disease (I was in my prime when genital herpes and AIDS were discovered). There was also this thing called 'jealousy' that tended to get people into some pretty rough conflicts, up to and including shootings and stabbings. Ironically, these usually happened over a girl (or in a couple occasions, a guy) who simply went on with their lives and dumped both combatants for someone new. There was also this problem with unwanted pregnancies (don't tell me about birth control; I personally know one woman with three children, the first while using condoms, the second while using the Pill, and the third after having a hysterectomy ) and the destroyed lives it produced. At least two lives were destroyed each time: both a child who didn't ask to be born into a bad situation and an unwed mother who was unable (or unwilling) to care for it.

I tried drugs. I wound up being unable to actually do anything of importance, and every penny I managed to make went for my 'hobby'. I was constantly harassed by law enforcement, and had the immense pleasure of dealing with some seriously shady characters.

I tried alcohol. Oh, the war stories I could tell about how drunk I got and how stupid I acted! To this day, despite doing it myself, I have yet to understand why immense stupidity would be something one would advertise so much...

I tried a 'gang'. Yep, sure did. That went bye-bye rather quickly when I wouldn't go along with every new heinous idea the guys I ran around with wanted to try. The last time I saw them, I stood in front of the lot and told them if they wanted to beat up that old woman, they would go through me to do it. They didn't, I left, and at last report every single one of them is either dead or in the State Penitentiary. I am the only one of that bunch that still walks about freely.

I tried hot-rodding. The feel of 600 horses loping along under that hood, and I am in control... it is exhilarating! One was a 1969 Dodge Coronet 500, with that 383 Magnum powerplant, personally tuned out and spec'd out by me and assembled by a guy I knew who was an ace mechanic. It would eat 440 Magnums for breakfast when we got through with it, and at the risk of bragging, I could handle the monster. But it wouldn't fix itself every time something broke; it took money to repair it, and a lot of money at that. And it made it so easy for me to take chances.... beating that train across the tracks, seeing just how fast I could take that winding mountain road... and although I survived, I remember a lot of the guys who didn't. I remember the ones who lost a race for pinkslips, and ended their hot-rodding career right there... at least they were still alive, and with all of their faculties.

I tried money. Yeah, that's right, at one time I was the guy with all the little 'toys', the nice clothes, the new house, the I-1 credit rating, the manicured front yard with a picket fence around it.... OK, maybe I pushed it on the fence thing. But I could have had anything I wanted materially back then, and did for a while. Then I began to realize what a trap it was; the more I got, the more I wanted. It never satisfied me for long. The more I had, the less important I felt people were. And there was finally that toy that I didn't have the cash for, so I borrowed the money. And the next toy, I borrowed for again. And again, since now my income goes to pay those bills. And so on and so forth, until that day I was laid off from "the most secure job in this area" (quote by one of the corporate execs a month before the layoff). Suddenly, my 'friends' were nowhere to be found, the bank acted like I was some sort of felon, and I couldn't afford my lifestyle any more.

I guess you could say I tried it all. None of it satisfied me for long. All of it had it's darker side. So when someone tells me how great things are in one of those areas, I simply smile and realize that they are really trying to convince themselves, not me. I already traveled that road. I know where it leads.

I never did return to the Southern Baptist ways of my youth; I already knew that road as well, and I considered it hypocritical. But I did return to Christianity, thanks in no small part to a few select TV evangelists who happened to say what I needed to hear when I needed to hear it. So I drug out that old worn Bible from my younger days and started reading it again, this time with a bit of hindsight into a full life of adventure. This time it seemed to make more sense to me, so I kept reading. And one night, I decided to give Jesus another shot.

Since that night, I have seen miracles happen to me. I have seen prayers answered in ways that astonished me. I have discovered that God will answer every prayer I ask of Him; sometimes, the answer is "no", but that is an answer too, right? I have watched as the lessons and warnings contained in that little book are played out in front of my eyes, yet wondered why others seem oblivious to the fact. I have looked at those 'contradictions', and realized that they are based on a lack of understanding... which is understandable, since the Bible is a very deep book, and some sections are based on Jewish custom and therefore easily misunderstood by a non-Jewish person (like me ).

I always was a bit of a science nerd, so I was always curious about how the world worked. And every time I read up on something, I was amazed at how perfectly things seem to work. No one can ever convince me that nature is a mistake or a chance happening; there is too much there that shows the hand of a Great Designer. The symbiance between plant and animal life, the cleansing cycle that works so well that when we dump waste, we call it a landfill and avoid it; when nature does it, we call it a beach and flock there in droves. The moon is the perfect distance form the Earth to maintain it's cycles, some of which are necessary the balance of nature. The Earth is the perfect distance from the Sun to maintain an atmospheric and biospheric system that nurtures life. The whole thing is just too complex and too intricate to have been created by anything short of an intelligence. Each time someone tries t tell me it is all just some big coincidence, I tend to reach down and pluck a nlade of grass and show it to them. "You know what this is?" I will ask. The I will tell them:

"This is the most sophisticated chemical laboratory on the face of the planet. It de-oxides carbon to produce free oxygen and glucose, which it then uses automatically to repair itself and create more copies of itself. It is 100% maintenance free and self-repairing, never requiring a tune-up or an adjustment. And it does this based on only solar radiation as an energy source. Never has man been able to even dream of a machine which works so efficiently and so reliably, much less one that accomplishes so great a feat. And yet, you just stepped on several of these chemical factories, and not a one of them suffered irreparable damage.

"When someone creates a factory that works one tenth as efficiently or as reliably as this blade of grass, then I will consider that the blade of grass is a mistake. Until then, I will consider what we as humans have done and thought as more likely to be a mistake."

Today, I am trying the faith thing. I live in a modest home, barely inhabitable by some standards. I drive older vehicles, and fix them as they need repair. I work at whatever job provides the things I need. My home is in the side of a mountain, surrounded by virgin forest. I have precious little, as far as material things go. But I seem to always have what I need, and more importantly to me, I don't seem to have much that I don't need. We have plenty to eat. We have beauty all around us. I have two wonderful children, neither of whom is messing with drugs or making/having babies too early in life. I can sleep well at nights, knowing that I owe no one anything. I can look my boss in the face and state my mind, because if he does the worst he can possibly do to me, fires me, I will still have food and will lose nothing important. And best of all, for those hard knocks that life throws at everyone, i no longer worry. I know, based on past experiences and answers to my sincere searching, that I have Someone to call on when things get too hard for me.

(continued)

(continued)

Christianity is not a crutch for me; it is a lifestyle, and the one I finally found that truly makes me happy. When a storm blows up, I don't pray that it will go around me; I instead make sure the roofs are in good shape and nothing is left lying in the rain. I then pray that God's will be done and relax. I know that that prayer will get a "yes" answer, and since I believe his will is for me to be happy, I get what I want out of that "yes". When I invite someone to church, I simply ask; if they say "no", then they say "no". When I disagree with a position, I voice my opinion; the same as other people voicing their opinions. My faith does not change who I am, it simply allows me to spend more time learning and creating and enjoying life instead of worrying about what is going to happen tomorrow. I still read scientific papers and study the latest technological advances. I like to spend time with my friends (regardless of religion). I like good food, a good smoke, sitting outside and watching the sunset, or just watching a good movie or TV show. What I am trying to say here is that Christianity has not changed me, it has enabled me. And yet, I am sure that someone here will point out that I am simply someone who is unable to separate fantasy from reality, someone who has been brainwashed, or something similar. Those accusations would not have been leveled if I were a drunk, or a criminal, or materialistic. Yet, the person inside me has not changed throughout all those journeys.

I am no longer Southern Baptist. I am a Christian, i.e. a "follower of the Christ". As such, I try fervently to live my life the way Jesus lived His. I do not always succeed, but I do try. A part of that life is being unashamed of who I am and what I know. So the next time someone invites you to church and you are about to give them a piece of your mind for trampling on your 'freedoms', think about it this way: If your car was broken, needing a part you had not been able to find, would you similarly treat someone who gave you directions to a salvage yard where you could get the part? I think not, even if when you got there, they were out of stock.

"He who despises directions, is truly lost."

TheRedneck

Yes, but people do those actions in the name of religion. All I am saying is that it is a tool to separate people more than to join people, on a global scale at least.

But people... exactley people. They use religion to justify what they are doing, that does not mean the religion is bad. It means that those people are crazy. For instance Al-Quda or whatever, they say that the Koran states that anyone who does not convert to Allah is an enemy and needs to be killed. That is a false translation, while it may seem like that it actually means: If the person does not convert to Allah he eventually dies and it also states near that paragraph that you shall not take anothers life. All through the Koran ittalks about how life is sacred, yet these terrorists warp the views of others and gain control as teachers and politics. Look at what Hitler did when he had control. He burned bibles and created an Aryan "bible" or an Aryan text.

the papa smurf one might be one of the crazier ones though

lol, I personally thought that was pretty reasonable actually joking of course.

Since there is not a reason, it just means we get to play in a giant playground. No consequences besides that of which we give each other. No heaven, no hell.

That just does not make sense to me, not saying your wrong, because I have no proof. But I think their is a reason, but that reason is unknown until a later date.

I like your questions at least you asking valid questions that make others, like myself think.

reply to post by TheMythLives


I find most followers of a particular religion, a bit like the supportes of a football team, or political faction for that matter: My idea of God is better than yours.
This I find outrageously hypocritical, from doctrines that are supposed to represent the most up-right qualities of human behaviour. generally it shows fundamental intolerence.
My belief is that no one religion can have the claim to being more correct than the next; after-all they are only mans interpretation of the divine, and thus, can never be wholey divine.
I like to pick and choose the parts of reliogions that work for me, and discard the concepts that I don't think are logical.
This has been labelled as Chaoism.

I don't really enjoy talking about religion on here as it is a very touchy subject,

I only follow the religion I do now because it's the religion I was raised with. I personally think specific religions are retarded, we all came from the same place/entity (just my opinion) so why not worship/study the same things?

I'm not trying to force my opinions on anyone. I'm not even sure if I really answered your question like you wanted, but I believe what I believe ha even if I can't say it right ... just my opinion.

reply to post by KRISKALI777

I find most followers of a particular religion, a bit like the supportes of a football team, or political faction for that matter: My idea of God is better than yours.

So have I, however, don't blame the religion for people's supreme ego regarding something. Like you said football is the same way I do not think my religion is better than others, I enjoy nearly all the religions, but I only follow one. Does that mean that my religion is better? No. Do I wave that infront of peoples faces? No. I just enjoy life and accept others for what they believe and hopefully they do the same and accept me.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Hi Myth, not sayin everyone is like that of coarse; beliefs are a very personal thing and I don't expect what works for me can work for the next person! we have to weigh our life experiences and then decide.
When certain individuals have bad personal experience of one sort or another, that can be a factor that shapes ones attitiudes to certain doctrines.
i have through-out my life had a number of 'questionable experiences' of this sort which has shaped my attitudes.
What dissapoints me the most is the pretensity of certain people to impress their views on another.
I am guilty of this when it comes to discussing reliogion in a historical context. When it comes to a spiritual context it can be as outlandish as the Raelians!

I can't give you anything on religion. I've tried to believe but just can't seem to do it. Maybe because if I were a god the day to day lives of people would see all so mundane and so I can't imagine that anyone is out there watching over me specifically. Then the whole universe is set up so great as to be self running, I like it I mean work smarter not harder right. But still, if God wanted to be that hands off and let everything run itself why would I assume that he really cares if I worship him or not?

The best I can say for religion is that it is for personal peace. If it give you peace at heart then good.

As for me I sort of like to think that the whole universe is nothing more then a daydream to who or whatever God is. He is aware of it, follows it, can even consiously alter it, but for the most part he just sits back and enjoys the show.

Galatians 6:14, "I But far be it from me to glory,save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world hath been crucified to me, and I unto the world."

It is difficult for us to understand the disgraceful idea of the cross that existed at that time. Today we put crosses around our necks, on top of churches, we sing about the cross and all, in all it is a glorious thing. But such was not the case in the time of the Apostles.

The cross was the electric chair of that day. It stirred the same feelings to think about the cross as it would if some member of your family had been hanged or electrocuted. Paul did not mince words. He did not say the death of Jesus, or the death of the Lord Jesus, or the death of the Lord Jesus Christ.

He said God forbid that I should glory save in the CROSS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. If it jars you, let it jar, if it offends you, let it offend. Some think the cross is a stumbling block, but I glory in it.

When Paul said be glorified in the cross, it was more than the actual wood of the cross, but what happened on the cross. He gloried in the blood of Jesus that was shed. He gloried in the plan of salvation - FAITH, REPENTANCE, CONFESSION AND IMMERSION FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS. '

There is plenty of reason for the Christian to glory in the cross. It is through the cross that death has been conquered.

Many things in the church can be duplicated by the world. If you want fellowship you can find it in the service club or lodge. If you want love, security. friendship. and many other things, you can find them in the world as well as the church.

'The one thing you cannot find in the world, that you find in the Church, is salvation, through the Blood of Jesus Christ. This is something the world cannot give-. We can say with Paul - God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Reply to post by N3krostatic

I do understand how religions have turned you and others away from the idea of God. I myself do not attend a church and do not dare watch tv evangelists for the simple fact Jesus said where 2 or more are gathered in His name He is there. I just cannot see anyones logic in trying to disprove God and if you or whoever despise God or religions sooooo much then why bother just let people believe in God or aliens or a crooked government. You say a believer is programed to believe in a false being and I say there is a difference in a non-believer and someone pushing the Anti-Christ movement by going after believers. A true non-believer simply does not believe and goes on with his or her life.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

I grew up around three different religions and I have had enough of it for several lifetimes. I have distanced myself from all of it.

I don't think that we can ever understand God nor are we supposed to.
We are limited, imperfect and as such cannot comprehend perfection.

The way I see it, God trying to comunicate with us is like a grown up physicist trying to explain quantum theory to a three-year-old. He can't. What he can do however is tell the kid to go to school, learn to read and write, study, educate themselves so that one day the kid can understand it all.
Religions are just different schools and all have forgotten why they exist in the first place. Nowdays we just bicker about which school is better, more accurate, we bully people from other schools, we destroy, we have forgotten the real goal.

I have decided that when it comes to religion I prefer to be home-schooled.

reply to post by TheRedneck


It is people like you who allow me to tolerate religion

Nice to know it all works for you.

There is a double edged sword in your analogy though, at the very least in society as a whole.

If an atheist tells someone about to go to church instead to "come with me to my house and enjoy life, have a beer (late night mass alright?!)" - the response would be offensive, or so I have seen.

My mother no longer goes to church, even when she used to be a full timer. It is because no one else wanted to go with her. Not that she doesn't believe anymore, but at the time she seemed offended that we would not support God...

To everyone else, it did not matter.

It is like she thinks you can not be a follower of Jesus Christ's (lessons) without being a Christian. As time past, this is not an issue anymore.

reply to post by max.is.awake


The problem with that it goes both ways.

Why does a believer try to convert? Or even participate in this thread?

Everyone cares. If someone tells you they don't care, chances are they do, even if it is the slightest bit.

One reason for this thread is because I care what others think. Instead of being an arrogant fool, it helps me become more open and tolerable. Not just from my own opinions and experiences, but from others as well.

It gives myself more credit and validity to my own opinion. I hope that it does others too just reading each others comments.

You do not have to agree, but some people like to see both sides to make themselves feel more right.

reply to post by KRISKALI777

What dissapoints me the most is the pretensity of certain people to impress their views on another.

Yeah that about says it all . But remember that is their views not the views of their religion. But I hear you on those issues, I too have seen them and they aggrivate me to no end. Star for you.

[edit on Jul 3rd 2009 by TheMythLives]

reply to post by FritosBBQTwist

It is people like you who allow me to tolerate religion

Thank you; you just made my day.

If an atheist tells someone about to go to church instead to "come with me to my house and enjoy life, have a beer (late night mass alright?!)" - the response would be offensive, or so I have seen.

I am sure that would be seen as offensive by some, to be sure. But I honestly have trouble seeing where it should be, just as I do not see where a simple invitation to church should be offensive. In both cases, someone is offering to open up a portion of their life to the other, presumably in order to allow them to enjoy the things the offerer enjoys. That is a good thing. In my case, since I sorta got tired of drinking many many moons ago, I would smile and say "No, but thanks for offering." Come to think of it, I can remember doing just that, as early as two nights ago. A friend who still drinks was having a beer and offered me one. I politely turned it down, thanked him, and kept drinking my Mountain Dew (yeah, I know, probably a hundred times worse for me, but that's a different thread). I was not offended, and come to find out, he offered out of politeness, knowing I would probably turn it down.

The problem comes when people begin to think that they should be able to tell others what to do. Perhaps that is why both religion and politics are such heated subjects; both seem to involve that sort of intrusion into a private life. Perhaps in politics it is a necessary component of the subject, but from my view, it is not so necessary in religion. If I may be permitted, allow me to make one quote from the very front of the book:

Genesis 1:27-28

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Allow me to use a bit of my knowledge of the Hebrew used in those verses. In essence it says man was given dominion (control) over swimming creatures, flying creatures, and land-based creatures (which traditionally does not include man himself). It specifies all three of those , but then stops short of giving man control over other men.

I have always found it strange that some religious folk seem to ignore this one simple statement while simultaneously crowing about how they have dominion over animals. We as Christians are not given dominion over other men, but are to live in peace and harmony with other men. So to tie this all back to your original point ( ), the problems with the Christian religion always seem to go back to the fact that some members of the religion do not follow the religion.

It is like she thinks you can not be a follower of Jesus Christ's (lessons) without being a Christian. As time past, this is not an issue anymore.

This is getting into some semantics, but the word Christian literally means one who follows the Christ. So by definition, the two are indeed one and the same. Of course, I realize you are referring to the religious rituals and not the spiritual following.

TheRedneck