The End of Accountability?

At first I thought it was just a local thing at fast food restaurants until I started seeing it in the corporate environment I worked in. I then started seeing it in both local and federal government. No one seems to want to get anything done correctly or have any pride when it comes to a job well done. Everyone just seems like that want to milk the “system” for all it's worth without actually doing anything. To top it off, management never wants to hold any employees accountable for the work they are supposed to be doing for their wages either.

It starts at the bottom when you go to a fast food joint and ask for a cheese burger with no ketchup. When you get home, the burger has ketchup on it. You complain about it and you must make an extra trip to get it right. You try different restaurants but the same thing keeps happening no matter where you go. Sure it is not the ketchup this time, but something is always wrong with the order or you will always have to wait for something that just isn't ready right now.

Then you go to work and there is an employee that refuses to do their job. You complain about it and the manager refuses to do anything about it. “It's no big deal.” They say. But the individual is costing the company money, customers and everyone in the office hates them because everyone else has to do extra work because of it. Management hates confrontation. You also see employees who have no business working their due to lack of the required skill set. Rather than management actually hire skilled employees, they have everyone else make the system become idiot proof. There is no such thing. It translates into a few people doing most of the work while others slack off. It is more like idiot enabling.

Then you look at your local government and attend the council meetings. You see the exact same thing there. People not doing their jobs and milking the system. A small clique of people making decisions for the rest of us. These same people can barely make decisions for themselves much less decisions for the populace. Local scandal one after the other, but the big fish causing the problems always stay.

You then look at the federal government and you see the exact same thing. It must be contagious.

You complain about it to everyone and you are just seen and a trouble maker or you are seen as having a negative attitude. You are marginalized and you have no voice. You are expected to “just deal with it.”

You try to escape but it is everywhere. Law enforcement, the media, medical industries, auto industries, insurance industries, banking industries, construction industries, you name it, it is there. Sure there are exceptions with individuals, but the rule has become a system of incompetence.

What are your thoughts about this? Do you see this in your neck of the woods? Is this just in the US or is it global?

Is the the beginning of the end for the United States? Can it recover?

I was talking to a friend of mine this weekend, He is a guy who manages a 1million square foot facility. Someone complained about the paring lot being dusty. They complained to OSHA. So now instead of an obvious fix of giving the whiner a dust mask, he said he has to spend a huge amount of money to put a plan to pave the parking lot together. This is an example of how the system is used/abused. We have taken political correctness, and fuzzy warm feelings to an extreme and now we will watch society crumble around us as we marvel at how good a system we have built. If people actually thought about the repercussions of their actions, this might not be such a flucked up place. (IMHO)

The end of the merit based society began with affirmative action programs. It is a sad and tragic thing that shall of course lead to a downfall in westernized standards.We have simply tried to strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.


And this is where it has gotten us.

You are not alone!

At my university, I see the same thing. I have professors who just have no right to be there, as department chairs, heads of colleges, or deans. And they are some of the most incompetant, arrogant, and mean bunch of (expletive deleted) I have ever seen. Now I have some professors that are stellar in their teaching methods, knowledge, and attitude. They get the worst treatment by these far underqualified persons. One professor is the department head for geography and environmental studies. The only degree he has is a doctorate in GIS, however, this guy has no clue when it comes to actual teaching or knowledge on geography or environmental studies! And he has the nerve to tell professors, that have nearly 20-30 years of actual experience in these fields over him, how to "run things". Hes practically ruining the education of students. And NOTHING can be done.
Another professor is a real (expletive deleted). I had the "Pleasure" to be on the recieving end of hims intimidation whenI dared question his friend on how he runs the geography department. I filed a complaint to the University and they pretty much buried it and found no instance of intimidation. So I went to the headof security (who is a state trooper) and told him about it, and he said that professor has a list of complaints agianst him by a LOT of people including admins and others in the university. And as it turns out the university he came from (which is a VERY exclusive university in northern IL) didnt come here on good terms, but got KICKED out from that university for "unknown reasons". OUr head of security surmises he got booted for the same thing. Unfortuantly NOBODY can do an damn thing about it and kick him out. They all stick together and cover up as much as they can. And in the end they are hurting the students by this nonsense. Sorry for the long winded story, but I had to get this off my chest, as I am sick of people not taking responsibility and doing the right thing.

[edit on 6/15/2009 by GenRadek]

The lack of accountability stems from the top: look at how many economists, brkers, bankers, and politicians royally and regualarly screw things up without any repercussions whatsoever.

A banker steals/loses a few billion and it's "well, yeah, it's shady, but too complicated to prosecute" or "ah, well, do better tomorrow". The corporate/political class lie, cheat, steal and murder with impunity, then complain about the lack of accountability among the poor.

If you don't want ketchup on your .99 cent hamburger try paying more than minimum wage to the worker who's making it. If you argue it isn't worth it to pay him or her more, why would you think it was worth it to them to cater to your wishes? You got what you paid for...a cheap hamburger. Eat it and shut up. If you want to be catered to, pay for it. If you're paying$15.00 for a burger, then you can send it back and complain, and rightfully so. If you're paying cheap, be accountable yourself, and , here's a thought, check it yourself before you leave the place. For minimum wage you're lucky it edible at all.

Ah, but that puts the burden on you, and you shoudln't be held accountable for what happens in your life right?

Look in the mirror and tell me again about how and why things are the way they are.

Originally posted by apacheman
If you don't want ketchup on your .99 cent hamburger try paying more than minimum wage to the worker who's making it. If you argue it isn't worth it to pay him or her more, why would you think it was worth it to them to cater to your wishes? You got what you paid for...a cheap hamburger. Eat it and shut up.

I do check it before I leave. One must because as Joe Pesci said they always screw you in the drive thru. I used the reference as a beginning point. It was where I first noticed it. Then I realized that it flows through everything. The same attitude everywhere no matter what industry you look into. It is funny because anymore as you say it is almost expected in fast food. This wasn't always so.

Ah, but that puts the burden on you, and you shoudln't be held accountable for what happens in your life right?

Look in the mirror and tell me again about how and why things are the way they are.

I appreciate your comments, but I am curious as to how you gather that I am not taking responsibility in my life? You suggest that I look into a mirror as ask why things are the way they are. What am I supposed to see?

What do you see when you look in your mirror?

reply to post by apacheman


NOW THAT is what I call accountability! It starts with YOU folks!

Dont complain about a screwed up order if you didn't have the brains to check it out before driving home.

I have long believed that we need to have a renaissance of accountability within our culture.

to the OP, i don't think i could have said it better myself and i feel the exact same way. i was stunned, dumb founded, maybe even awe-struck, when i came to this realization upon entering the 'real world' post college. and i am surrounded by people that absolutely refuse to take personal responsibility for anything and are never held accountable. here's my dumba## doing all the work and getting paid the same as the lazy sh*ts that couldn't tell the difference between a thought and wet fart.

in today's world, everyone is conditioned and raised to be winners. like those little intramural tee-ball leagues, where there are no losers and everyone wins, and everyone gets a trophy. as nice as this all sounds, someone has to lose. when there are no losers, no one learns anything.

when everyone wins all the time, no one works harder to get any better. instead, we have people making excuses and placing blame, rather than just accepting the fact that they failed to achieve or reach a goal or task.

just speaking from personal experience, i have always learned more from failures than success. nowadays, less and less people want to learn from their mistakes or failures and they'd much rather have someone else take care of it for them.

reply to post by bismarcksea and apacheman


I also appreciate your thoughts, but I am not sure sure that is the point. That would suggest that everyone needs a babysitter. I understand the concept of caveat emptor, but I am suggesting that this infects beyond the drive thru.

I think that those who just "deal with it" are the ones who should admit some responsibility here. How can it improve when no one does anything about it?

"Eat it and shut up" is the problem not the solution.

If you are working overtime and your team mate leaves early every day and you just "eat it and shut up" you are just as complicit to the problem.

Those who do horrible work are rewarded the same as those who do great work. I refuse to let it go. I must say something and stand up for myself and others. How about you? Do you only stand up while you are in the drive thru and then let it go afterwards?

I don't wish you to think I am being hostile because that is not my intention. I wish to flesh this argument out because it seems to be murky.

[edit on 15-6-2009 by xman_in_blackx]

reply to post by xman_in_blackx


Meant that more as a generic than specific "you", but my point is that accountability seems to be for other folk and not for oneself among a lot of people.

What I meant by looking in the mirror was this: when was the last time you held someone above you economically, politically, or socially accountable for their behavior? Or does accountability apply only to those beneath you? Demanding accountability from those beneath is easy rhetoric, but holding the wealthy and powerful accountable and ceasing to excuse their behavior is much more difficult because it might effect you personally, not rhetorically. When was the last time you held a cop accountable? Lord knows there's enough bad cop videos on here that no matter where you live, you're certain to have a few.

And if they aren't held accountable, why should anyone else be?

Originally posted by xman_in_blackx

You try to escape but it is everywhere. Law enforcement, the media, medical industries, auto industries, insurance industries, banking industries, construction industries, you name it, it is there. Sure there are exceptions with individuals, but the rule has become a system of incompetence.

What are your thoughts about this? Do you see this in your neck of the woods? Is this just in the US or is it global?

Is the the beginning of the end for the United States? Can it recover?

TRUST ME IT IS EVERYWHERE.

I'm currently in Singapore, in SOUTHEAST ASIA.

Lack of accountability's here in this country, too.

Everyone is grossly incompetent, unlistening and downright unapologetically rude in some cases.

Originally posted by GenRadek
You are not alone!

At my university, I see the same thing. I have professors who just have no right to be there, as department chairs, heads of colleges, or deans. And they are some of the most incompetant, arrogant, and mean bunch of (expletive deleted) I have ever seen. Now I have some professors that are stellar in their teaching methods, knowledge, and attitude. They get the worst treatment by these far underqualified persons. One professor is the department head for geography and environmental studies. The only degree he has is a doctorate in GIS, however, this guy has no clue when it comes to actual teaching or knowledge on geography or environmental studies! And he has the nerve to tell professors, that have nearly 20-30 years of actual experience in these fields over him, how to "run things". Hes practically ruining the education of students. And NOTHING can be done.
Another professor is a real (expletive deleted). I had the "Pleasure" to be on the recieving end of hims intimidation whenI dared question his friend on how he runs the geography department. I filed a complaint to the University and they pretty much buried it and found no instance of intimidation. So I went to the headof security (who is a state trooper) and told him about it, and he said that professor has a list of complaints agianst him by a LOT of people including admins and others in the university. And as it turns out the university he came from (which is a VERY exclusive university in northern IL) didnt come here on good terms, but got KICKED out from that university for "unknown reasons". OUr head of security surmises he got booted for the same thing. Unfortuantly NOBODY can do an damn thing about it and kick him out. They all stick together and cover up as much as they can. And in the end they are hurting the students by this nonsense. Sorry for the long winded story, but I had to get this off my chest, as I am sick of people not taking responsibility and doing the right thing.

[edit on 6/15/2009 by GenRadek]

YES! You wonder how some people got to be professors.

Some high school teachers are bad - thankfully not all - but you wonder how they got hired in the first place?

And college... WTF?

Some professors are unknowledgeable, unskilled, unexperienced and absolutely horrible to enquiring minds, both figuratively and literally.

While I think it's shallow to comment on ketchup on a .99 burger - it is, isn't it? if you don't want the ketchup scrape it off yourself... what's the big deal? - bigger things like education, governmental responsibility, occupational competence... WHOA.

I'm so shocked.

AIG crashed for a reason, folks.


[edit on 15-6-2009 by KarlG]

Originally posted by apacheman
If you don't want ketchup on your .99 cent hamburger try paying more than minimum wage to the worker who's making it.
Ah, but that puts the burden on you, and you shoudln't be held accountable for what happens in your life right?

You take a job knowing that you will be asked to perform at a certain level and be compensated at a specific rate for your labor.

If minimum wage is too little an incentive to get the burger order correct, don't take the job, nobody is holding a gun to your head.

If you accept the paycheck then do the work.

Bad Employee-"Why should I try when I only make minimum wage?"
Employer- "Why should I pay you more when you're not doing the job correctly?"

[edit on 15-6-2009 by GuyverUnit I]

I really appreciate everyone's responses in this thread. I am sad to hear that it even goes beyond the US but I had seen it in college before so I am not really surprised. There are some great teachers out there but they aren't always rewarded for their hard work. We are lucky that they continue to do the job to make a difference in the world. The students that are inspired and whose lives are changed by their hard work IS their reward.

Originally posted by apacheman
Demanding accountability from those beneath is easy rhetoric, but holding the wealthy and powerful accountable and ceasing to excuse their behavior is much more difficult because it might effect you personally, not rhetorically. When was the last time you held a cop accountable? Lord knows there's enough bad cop videos on here that no matter where you live, you're certain to have a few.

And if they aren't held accountable, why should anyone else be?

I think that everyone should be held accountable. Those below and above including myself. That is the way it should be. I am reminded of a college class that a friend told me about where the professor asked the students if they wanted him to grade using the communism scale. He explained that the entire class would get the average of entire class score. The majority of the class agreed.

After the first test, the whole class got a C and the A students complained. All the other students were happy because they didn't study as much if at all and they passed. Eventually, however, the A students stopped working harder than the rest of the class and eventually the entire class received a failing grade because the A students didn't raise the average. The entire class learned a lesson about rewarding hard work.

I am starting to wonder if this is where we are headed.

[edit on 16-6-2009 by xman_in_blackx]

reply to post by xman_in_blackx


I agree with much what apacheman on this.

You have to look at the big picture on a macro level, not the individual micro level. The corporate system is so big now that employees have become just numbers and are not human beings any more. Why do you think you can still buy that "hamburger" for .99 cents? Because profits are the only thing that matters now in the corporate world. Everything else, ethics, laws, etc., are just obstacles and inconveniences to manuever around.

We all have to work to make money so we can live. The vast majority of us don't have the luxury to work where we want to. A lot of people go to a job to just pick up a pay check while they try and figure out what they really what to be doing. If these people aren't doing their job correctly or not doing it at all, they should be reprimanded or fired. This is the accountability of management.

Try and see the big picture. It's not your fellow lazy employee working right next to you, it's the system itself and it goes all the way to the top. Why do you think no one yet has been held accountable for the crimes committed by the previous administration?






[edit on 16-6-2009 by truthtothemasses]

Originally posted by truthtothemasses
If these people aren't doing their job correctly or not doing it at all, they should be reprimanded or fired. This is the accountability of management.

I fear that this will get even worse in the very near future in corporate America. My reason is this:

Many corporations now have in place hiring freezes due to the downturned economy. This makes them even more reluctant to let anyone go because if they do, they may not be able to hire new employees to replace them.

That would be bad for everyone involved. Less people equals more work for everyone.

What an evil double edged sword indeed. This only suggests that they systematic growth of incompetence of our country, if not the world, will spread even further.

There were a lot of good replies in this thread. I appreciate your thoughts on the slide downward.

Remindes me of Harrison Bergeron (sp?). Handicapper General? hahahaha.

I recieved this paper during intensive therapy from our local government.

Tactics Twisted Thinkers use to Avoid Accountability

1. They will continualy point out others inadequacies
2. They will build themselves up by putting otheres down
3. They will tell others what they want ot hear and not the truth
4. They will lie by omission or distorting the truth
5. They will be vague by using words like: "someone","maybe",if I feel like it"
6. They will divert attention away from themselves by introducing irrelevant things
7. They will attempt to confuse others and play mind games
8. They will minimize the situation
9. They will agree or say "yes" without realy meaning it
10. They will use silence to avoid others
11. They will pay attention only to what suits them
12. They will make a big scene about a minor point
13. They will put off doing something by saying "I forgot"
14. They will put others on the defensive by degrading them, arguing over words, embarrassing them, or using anger as a weapon
15. They will be totaly inatentive
16. They will accuse others of misunderstanding
17. They will claim they have changed because they did something right once

It is my belief that we have all used one or more of these "tactics" in our day to day lives. However, I also believe that the "twisted thinkers" that we all know and love are the ones who use each and every one of these tactics as much as possible every day of their lives.

reply to post by Tyler 720


Tyler,

Thanks for the list. It is awesome. You are right. We all know people/government employees/city managers/mayors/corporate officers/doctors/managers/police officers/etc who do these things.