US rejects victory claim by Iran's Ahmadinejad

Thank you for your answer, Mike.

Yes, there is a lot of confusion, it's difficult to understand what is exactly going on.
I can't figure the regime overtaken like that without being prepared. Moussavi arrested, what a joke ! I was implying the riots were tacitly allowed. I see you don't think so. I hope you are right, it would be the worst case if not. I fear for Iranians.

Reminiscent of students riots in Paris ? I don't know. Workers rioted too and a general strike lasted weeks.
In 1999, students protest in Tehran University. They were infiltrated by a 'students' organisation, the BCU, French acronyme, I don't how they are called in english. It stands for something like University Consolidation Bureau. Students leaders were killed, emasculated, thrown out of the window. BCU took the milicians to each of the students leaders room. BCU still exists. Ahmadinejad in his youth was in the BCU.
The rioters have no choice now and they know it. I hope the leaders have prepared for an uprising and have good connections outside Tehran. Unfortunately, it's not a likely scenario.

This election is a complete fraud. The REAL conspiracy is trying to deny the youth their voice.

I for one support this revolt 100%.

Censorship, beatings, house arrest, a vote that was totaled by hand less than two hours after the closing of the polls?

Complete SHAM! This election is a mockery of Liberty and Freedom.

This regime is an oppressive anti women, anti freedom, forced religious dictatorship. About TIME the people rise up and revolt to over throw the chains of oppression.

Ahmadinejad election victory sparks violence in Iran

His rival, the reformist Mir Hossein Moussavi, polled just over 32%, but he refuses to accept the result.

President Ahmadinejad spoke on national television following his re-election for another four years.

He attacked foreign media and elements inside Iran for waging a propaganda campaign against the country.

www.flickr.com...

Enjoy your right to put down people making their last stand for freedom.

This woman has more courage than any of us Arm Chair warriors could ever hope for.

Originally posted by mmiichael

Originally posted by ergoli

With a voter Turnout of 85% the great Iranian democracy dwarfs the US regime on its own grounds: legitimacy. The only western country to allow for a similar level of democracy is France. I think Iran would be a great place to live in.

Except they don't elect their leaders. The country is a theocracy. The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces with has sole power to declare war or peace. He's there as long as he chooses and decides who can run in elections.

His powers are tantamount to being King. The majority of people wanting to run for positions are eliminated at his discretion.

Democracy is gauged by an awful lot more than a voter turn-out.


Mike

This is a two-sided point of argument. There are things you just can't change, even in a democracy. Western democracies have their tares too, like capitalist economic policies that can't really be challenged because of the omnipotence of capitalist lobby groups.

In conclusion, if you call Iran "undemocratic" you must call the United States a "capitalist dictatorship", in order to remain even-handed.

But the U.S.IS a capitalist dictatorship!With military/industrialism added for flavor!

It would make absolutely no sense that the U.S. would want Ahmadinejad to win. Having him remain in power just increases the likelihood of nuclear war between Iran and Israel, into which the U.S. would be drawn. Not to mention that Iran has been providing weapons to the Shia militias in Iraq, as well as spreading nuclear technology to other potential enemies.

The elections in Iran are an unavoidable concern to the U.S.

I've little doubt that the election was fixed, but certainly not by the U.S. in favor of the status quo.

I'd be very heartened and enthusiastic about the demonstrations, except there's not much evidence that Mousavi (sp.?) would have been any better.

reply to post by Sestias


www.flickr.com...

Oh Hi there! Is this the the "proof" you were referring to? Not sure if women being treated like dogs was what you referring to or not? Could you be more specific when you refer to "better"?

To investigate the alleged fraudulent activity during the Iranian elections, the United States has hired election fraud experts ACORN, Diebold Inc, Karl Rove, and select officials from the states of Ohio and Florida. If these entities are unable to come to a consensus, the United States Supreme Court will weigh in with the final decision.

I think it would be wise of the US to have all questionable ballots in this Iranian election sent to Florida for a recount.

Democracy sucks sometimes.

reply to post by HunkaHunka



Of course my skepticism is one sided , it is to denote doubt towards the idea that is being put forward. To denote skeptism towards one nomination does not signify an adherance to another . If the question that this video was of americans coming out of a mettalica concert , I would still still appear one sided in my opinion to say that I am not convinced , it does not mean I am purporting or supporting , nor necessarily opposing another suggestion of what otherwise they may be doing . Skeptism , unless denoted otherwise or subject to mutual exclusivity , is relevant to the subject matter , not it's counterpart(s).


Now you say , "I happen to know the video is what is most likely what is occurring" , and it was all cut and dried facts beyond question only the post before . 'Most likely' leaves room for any old video to be submitted that could feasibly be taken for the event in question, 'most likely' leads us to all manner of maybe's and a whole new definition of your position . You can't say it is accurate , for sure , can you ? You , that calls me self righteous for saying I cannot vouch for it's veracity especially when coming from a source of such diaphanous credentials.


But you judge the integrity of this video on it similarity to other videos of so called unreproaced authenticity. Do you think they would have instead perhaps posted a video of say anti globalization riots in germany or anti bush demonstrations in denver to purport to be Iranian Riots ? , the whole point of forwarding such material that purports to be authentic is that it at least looks credible .

See, thats where the likes of you are easily bamboozled , those pictures of Tskhinvali that purported to be a bombed out Gori all fitted in too , didnt they , russian troops guns toting and caucasian civilians crawling through the wreckage and all . I can imagine you all full of vexation at such an image and denouncing anybody that did not believe in it with the same unquestioning faith in it's integrity as you do, or lacking the obviously not so perspicacious deliberations as you have endeavoured to invest on the matter as self righteous and should hold their tounge for daring to question such overwealming evidence .

Could you be duped ? , I'd say it was a certainty .

[edit on 15-6-2009 by Drexl]

Anything that is world news relating to nations like Iran reported in the western media or posted by unknown 'sources' on youtube has to be treated as alleged or suspect . Even things that may seem the undeniable truth . If you have not learned that lesson from the farce that was the reporting on the Russ / Georgian war and the blatant mis representation of events via media distortion and forgery of evidence to lie and to incriminate one party (Russians) falsely to the public for the expedience of mere agenda , then you have learned nothing .

btw , I am also not averse to the sight of such apparent riots in Iran . It may be a double edged sword for the agencies that helped them along . How many americans will see these alleged freedom loving individuals take to the street against a government and a system they apparently do not wish to have . Then look upon themselves for the lack of that same conviction and action , how many will develop an empathy .. especially in contrast to the international law defying murdering Israeli's . . How many americans want to bomb Iran now ?

[edit on 15-6-2009 by Drexl]

The BBC has again been caught engaging in mass public deception by using photographs of pro-Ahmadinejad rallies in Iran and claiming they represent anti-government protests in favor of Hossein Mousavi.

An image used by the L.A. Times on the front page of its website Tuesday showed Iranian President Ahmadinejad waving to a crowd of supporters at a public event.

In a story covering the election protests yesterday, the BBC News website used a closer shot of the same scene, but with Ahmadinejad cut out of the frame. The caption under the photograph read, 'Supporters of Mir Hossein Mousavi again defied a ban on protests'.

The BBC photograph is clearly a similar shot of the same pro-Ahmadinejad rally featured in the L.A. Times image, yet the caption erroneously claims it represents anti-Ahmadinejad protesters.

See the screenshots below (click to enlarge).







During the fall of Baghdad in April 2003, the BBC and other mainstream news outlets broadcast closely framed footage of the "mass uprising" during which Iraqis, aided by U.S. troops, toppled the Saddam Hussein statue in Fardus Square.

The closely framed footage was used to imply that hundreds or thousands of Iraqis were involved in a Berlin Wall-style "historic" liberation, yet when wide angle shots were later published on the Internet, footage that was never broadcast on live television, the reality of the "mass uprising" became clear. The crowd around the statue was sparse and consisted mostly of U.S. troops and journalists. The BBC later had to admit that only "dozens" of Iraqis had participated in toppling the statue. The entire scene was a manufactured farce yet the propaganda technique of blocking wide-angle shots from being broadcast convinced the world that the event represented a triumphant and historic mass popular uprising on behalf of the Iraqi people.

www.propagandamatrix.com...

Originally posted by Drexl
The BBC has again been caught engaging in mass public deception by using photographs of pro-Ahmadinejad rallies in Iran and claiming they represent anti-government protests in favor of Hossein Mousavi.

While I have little respect for the present day BBC, I expect a lot can be attributed to their attempts at magnifying stories for sensation value and sheer incompetence as much as agenda.

Media has a habit of creating stories when there isn't much of one. People think it's malice, I see it more as commercialism.


Mike


[edit on 20-6-2009 by mmiichael]

Well the people are sure not backing down.

Riot police clash with demonstrators in Iran

Iran was rocked by violent clashes today as demonstrators defied their Supreme Leader’s warnings of ‘bloodshed’ to take to the streets.

Police in Tehran used teargas, metal batons and water cannons on protesters who continue to challenge the recent presidential elections.

In the south of the city supporters of defeated candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi torched a building used by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s backers.

I don't see how the U.S. can say anything critical about Ahmadinejad with all the love the left, who are currently in charge, showed him when he spoke at Columbia University 2 years ago.