Let's Play Make Believe

The title of this post refers to the request of me (WP) asking the avid reader of the Aliens and UFO forum to suspend their disbelief for a moment and imagine;

We got it all wrong. There are no aliens visiting. We are on our own to discover the wonders of the universe. We must seek out The Other, he will not come to us. For the varieties of creation have left us as the first to rise this far. I’m asking you for a moment to imagine the average universe of Clark, Asimov (Foundation) and Heinlein.

So, pretend we start fresh today. Pretend we start with the world we have as the MSM paints it. We have only the tools before us, no hidden alien tech, only human derived sweat and toil no matter how secret or black the project.

Where do we, the open minded thinkers take our society (and by society I mean Global, i.e. Earth) to arrive at the place where we are the true explorers? Where we are The Other’s aliens? Where WE are the ones that are kept secret from the masses and seen in the sky as a thousand portents of prophecy.

How do we make reality into fantasy and reach for the stars?

I challenge you to give me your top 10 steps to branching out into the infinite night.

It is a narrow and mean task. Who is up to it?

reply to post by whiskeypoet

and by society I mean Global, i.e. Earth

Redundant...?





On Topic:


Step 1 - Imagination


Step 2 thru 10 - See above...

reply to post by chapter29


I'm dissapointed. Show me YOUR imagination. Give me your 2 through ten. Pay the piper, then be cute.

Edit- It was redundant. You caught me, so I won’t change it. Star for you. But I want my two through ten cookie!



[edit on 13/6/2009 by whiskeypoet]

Seeing that "alternative theories" is to be discussed the thread was moved from BTS to skunk works. Let's keep it Scholarly, please.

Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: 1st and foremost I would restart Project: Orion and work out the spalling issues! [They worked out the sputter issues so I don't see this as an extreme engineering problem that can't be solved with current knowledge and resources.]
2nd I would Invest big time into actualizing several space elevators both here on earth and on the moon and mars.
3rdly I would have several large asteroids converted as mobile HQ's etc
4th I would then invest in a Dyson sphere and then we can unhook our solar system and motor it across the universe at will!
5th I would invest in doing the same with any other star systems that suit our needs and purposes.
6th I would mark my home turf with clear warning signs and sentinals around the whole perimeter of where ever we park the Terran empire.
7th I would upon domination of the galaxy would enshrine it in a massive Dyson sphere made out of its satellite galaxies and I would keep going until the entire Virgo super cluster is decoupled and under our control.
8th I would then seek out extreme instances of universal anomalies and try to get to grips with them up close and personal.
9th during this entire time the 2ndry focus will be functionalizing in all respects the case for human immortal/immorbid/invulnerability etc by whatever means available and collectively [2/3 majority rules] agreed upon.
10th Having finally dominated the entire known universe I would look out upon an ancient massive void contained somewhere within and would muse "Hmmmm? I wonder what it would look like if I put some light over there?" ....and Poof! so it was...Again!

Personal Disclosure: Starred and Flagged.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Excellent post. And thanks for taking the time to respond!

1- I always thought Orion was an excellent idea, and a wonderful way to use all those lonely nukes. Question, as far as spalling goes, are you referring to spalling of the kicker plate in regards to the Misznay–Schardin effect? Or Nuclear spalling in regards to Gamma damage to the ship and crew?

2- Agreed (assuming advances in carbon nano-tube manufacture)

3- Why a mobile HQ? I would think that mining them for raw materials and launching the usable slag in system for use at an L5 base would be more feasable. Time it right and you could use the assumed linear accelerator as a drive (the slag being reaction mass) and bring the shell to HEO for refit and colonization. Or I suppose you could convert the mass on scene and use the shell itself as a slowboat.

4- I'm not a big fan of Dyson Spheres for a couple reasons. One, the matter conversion of a whole system falls in the "God-Like Technologies branch". Too much has to be assumed. And how are you going to move Sol?

5-10. Hey! You tricked me! And you ripped off Asimov’s “The Last Question!!! Shame! hahaha.

Thanks for making me think, and making me laugh!

Edit for spelling

[edit on 13/6/2009 by whiskeypoet]

reply to post by whiskeypoet
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: 1stly in regards to your 1st question I am referring to spalling in the sense of the kicker plate in regards to the Misznay–Schardin effect! The 2nd type of spalling that you refer to I believe was worked out by focusing on the level of opacity that the shielding would require and even with Orion being 4000 metric tons in mass they still had a special lead lined room with cots for the crew to stay in when the ship was to get underway or slow down/stop.

2ndly As to my reason for "disguised" mobile HQ's. Ooops I just gave the game away.

3rdly Opening a single or several orifice/s of the Dyson sphere allows the solar wind to escape in an asymmetrical fashion RE: Thrust. BaddaBing BaddaBoom you got yourself a mobile solar system!

4th and Finally It was an opportunity I just couldn't miss so thank you for providing that!

Personal Disclosure: Your idea of of hollowing the asteroids out and linear mass ejecting them into a HEO for retrofit has lots of merit and I welcome your insight into this matter. I think parking them at a lagrangian point of convenience would be wise. What say you?

Edited to fix grammar.

[edit on 13-6-2009 by OmegaLogos]

Cool. Going into armchair space empire building mod in 3... 2... 1...
1) Re-ignite interest for space exploration in general public by education/mass media/movies. Make it cool again.
2) Draw as many nations as possible into this by ensuring that anyone participating could gain technologically/economically.
3) Making as many $ available as possible (uniting militaries, new tax here and there with promisses for future dividents, drawing in rich corporations by promising rocks to mine.
4) Invest a lot, and i mean a lot , into all educational fields related (astrophysics, physics, space biology? and ctr) , create research centers. Create space scouts kids movements.
5) Make launches cheaper and more practical (space elevator as noted above or similar project). Using it:
6) Create 24/7/365 operational base on Moon capable to maintain itself and construct heavy space platforms. Using it:
7) Create 24/7/365 operational space station capable to maintain itself and construct heavier space platforms needed to travel in Solar System.
8) Create colony on Mars.
9) Study Solar system to the limits.
10) "Our scientists just discovered technology for extremely fast space travel. Sadly only robots can survive the stress, sir."
"Very well. Prepare mission to Alpha centauri. Order super-dooper-computer not to reveal itself during the mission to any intelligent life encountered."

I have no issue with allowing someone else to pull my leg a little in the name of intellectual stimulation. Well played.

Are far as using the leftovers of asteroid mining as habitats, I can take no more credit for that than for utilizing the mass driver as delivery means of product and habitat it's self. It's a conglomeration of numerous other more successful literary speculators, not the least of which, Niven, Card, Pournelle etc.

I suppose stabilizing them at a LaGrange point as opposed to HEO makes more sense. At some point in the future we will need to clean up LEO and HEO due to already present and expanding navigational hazards. Not to mention that once something is in orbit delta v is only as expensive as your time.

I would like to add a couple of early game caveats. I run on the assumption that it will be quite a while before we develop energy sources or containment fields efficient enough to keep a wormhole open so it'll be a slow boat to Centauri there for a while. That stated you have two real choices:

Generation Ships (our hollowed out asteroids) Or Hibernation. I don’t believe hibernation is very viable as there are too many factors for malfunction and loss of crew unless you leave someone awake to tend them and that breeds jealousy (and no, I would not trust my life over hundreds of years to a purely automatic system).

Of course colonization is incumbent upon valid evidence of a habitable (if not unoccupied) planet at the destination.

I would still invest in hibernation tech though. But I think generation ships are the way to go.

We’d have plenty of time to prepare, send probes, and await their slow light speed constrained response before launched. Though given the time involved I suppose that by the time we launched the first wave living space would be at a premium.

reply to post by whiskeypoet
Disclaimer: I'm a theist but not of the Abrahamic faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I am not a scientific/legal or medical expert in any field. Beware of my Contagious Memes! & watch out that you don't get cut on my Occams razor.All of this is my personal conjecture and should not be considered the absolute or most definitive state of things as they really are. Use this information at your own risk! I accept no liability if your ideology comes crashing down around you with accompanying consequences!

Explanation: Maybe a huge particularly sticky asteroid could be accurately navigated through HEO and as low as we dare?, so as to sweep away all the old space junk and leave LEO to HEO relatively debris free!

Personal Disclosure: that sure would be a sight and it might look like this but bigger!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7f2b95215df4.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by whiskeypoet


I do not even attempt to show that i know what would be used to travel in Solar system, not to mention Alpha centauri. It is a tribute to civ series.
As for generations ship - it is a great idea. I would sign up right now. However my grand-grand-grand son might be pissed off when they would arrive after century plus and see that incredibly faster space travel type was evolved couple of years ago and those guys beat them to it.
Not to mention that my grand-grand-grand son , born and razed in space ship, would be almost as alien to me as those guys in Alpha centauri.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


That WOULD be a sight. Although I hope it wouldn’t get low enough to ablate and create a visible tail!!! That means someone did their math wrong.

Perhaps a better solution might be to tow some quantum singularities around and eat all the matter. When you're done your baby black hole is fractionally bigger and you tow it out to L5 and build your main habitat/dry dock around it and use it as your power source by feeding it matter and siphoning off the waste heat of it's destruction.

After all, almost all energy is derived from boiling water.

Or if we used your asteroid we could always find one especially rich in iron and magnetize it. Then if we wanted we could drop it in the Pacific to reverse global warming... Hmmm... nope. Too many cities to evacuate. I would say drop it on the north pole, but then the ensuing deluge would be worse. I'll have to think on it.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Well, the solution to the slow boaters is to make sure you are either prepared to refit her in route or offload the colonists to one of your sleeker C+ models :-)

But it should come as no surprise to the slow boaters that you are coming. You were communicating with them via laser for the whole trip right? Updating their cultural and entertainment database? Sending new advances in hydroponics and medicine etc?

************

So, new question; Militarize Space? Global Co-op Navy? Or privatize it?

How do you incentivize financial backing from nations who opt out of the Co-op? Withhold tech developed for the program?

What would be the point?

In response to FlyingCupPlate,

For a moment I thought you actually had a valid question, or were at least trying to learn something. Then I jumped over to your profile and saw that you are trolling. Congrats on being my first ignore!



[edit on 15/6/2009 by whiskeypoet]

Ok, I'll have a go for ya!
Firstly we need that space station finished.
Then, an idea that I just adore!, we begin building roads from planet to planet, Or rather bridges. That way special trains can run along them, transporting people to the worlds beyond.
We need to bring technology and English to any primitive creatures dwelling on any of our neighbouring planets (not religion, that's the worst thing that we could bring).
That's all I've got, I'm sorry that I couldn't be of more use.

This is a serious post, checkout my profile if you doubt this. This is exactly how it would play out.

0) *EDITED IN, FORGOT* Build a super secret space colony for me & my homies.
1) Recruit the guys from 'Star Trek'.
2) Build a galactic empire.
3) Imprison & Enslave any alien races who stand in my way with my leet laz0r beams and elite Star Trek crew.
4) Make Kim Kardashian my personal butt slave.
5) Kill off anybody of my own race who stands in my way. Genocide is mandatory or this would be no fun.
6) Stock up on cigarettes before any of this would have ever begun, should have labeled this as number 1.
7) Re-paint the 'USS Enterprise' to pink & lime green for major lulz.
8) Laugh at the paint job.
9) Blow something up with nuclear bombs which would be in the shape of penises.
10) Grow some super strong space weed.





[edit on 2-7-2009 by h1satsu]

[edit on 2-7-2009 by h1satsu]

[edit on 2-7-2009 by h1satsu]