Does man actually just enjoy killing?

reply to post by grapesofraft


Not that I support war, but I believe war is natural as well, isn't it?

Now, the extent to which we have taken war isn't natural, and we certainly could be a little wiser and humane with how we treat one another in war (torturing prisoners of war, etc.), but war itself, in it's most basic form, is natural. I could be wrong but I don't think we're the only species that engages in war.

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I actually take the view that there should be no rules in war. To be honest, I do not even understand why we ever thought we should put rules on war. It is to be played to win. It is not about who can be nicest or kindest.

I think a leaders job is to define the enemy clearly and then unleash everything in his aresenal to defeat that enemy as quickly as possible with the least loss of life on his side of the war.. no if, ands, or butts.

Trying to put rules on war is just the fantasy of people who do not want to face the ugliness of war. It is a weakness IMO.

You can pray for the other side and hope they change their mind or give up or whatever, but until that moment it is war.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by grapesofraft]

reply to post by jd140

Thanks for that JD.
You are correct. I feel lucky to have never had to deal with that.
All I can say is thanks for your service and for doing the dirty work.

Originally posted by grapesofraft
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

 

I actually take the view that there should be no rules in war. To be honest, I do not even understand why we ever thought we should put rules on war. It is to be played to win. It is not about who can be nicest or kindest.

I think a leaders job is to define the enemy clearly and then unleash everything in his aresenal to defeat that enemy as quickly as possible with the least loss of life on his side of the war.. no if, ands, or butts.

Trying to put rules on war is just the fantasy of people who do not want to face the ugliness of war. It is a weakness IMO.

You must be a baptist preacher, they are the only ones who stay connected to the way the world really is.

reply to post by jd140


Guilty as charged.

I hate the suffering of war as much as anyone else, but I also would rather see my side avoid that at any cost to the enemy. I just dont see how it can be any other way.

We can make all the rules we want, but it doesnt mean the other side is going to follow them. Everybody "cheats" in war, because the cost of loosing is too great.

reply to post by grapesofraft

Thanks and you are right.
As much as I hate it war is neccessary in this world.
Its too bad, but it is the way it is.
That doesnt mean we have to enjoy it.
Only appreciate it far more than we apparently do.
So maybe we would work harder at not starting them
or being sucked in under false pretense.
Seems war is always about pretenses. Just sayin'



[edit on 12-6-2009 by dodadoom]

The off topic commentary stops now...

If the topic cannot be discussed like mature adults, don't bother...

...and the topic is, since many of you seem to have forgotten, as follows: Does man actually just enjoy killing?

Back to it.

reply to post by grapesofraft


It would be the best way to wage war, but as long as there are people out there who have never suffered war crying about human rights we will continue to lose thousands of lives. Then they have the gall to complain that to many of our troops are dying.

Oh well, I get to play in the sandbox again in a few months and wait around for the new set of rules that gets handed down to us because of the bleeding hearts.

Can't wait.

I have shot pests in the past and yes, I senselessly did kill a bird/squirrel/frog when I was a kid with a pellet gun and do now hunt on occasion but the treatment of these creatures is brutal and hopefully the kids will gain the sense that I did myself of the delicate nature of life and respect it.

I will ALWAYS hunt when I feel like it but I won't feel like it if I have no desire to hunt. Have I bought game? Yep! I eat more vegetation than meat but I love game and seafood.

I also respect a simple potato that I pull out of the ground that sustains me another day as it has equal right to life or be hunted and nobody has the ability to know whether or not vegetation has feelings. Marine life too.

Even vegans kill. We cannot conceive the face or the pain of a vegetable or fruit.

That kid in the orange/red shirt is going to be a tyrant! As for the limp wrists firing .22s at the pigeons, get a REAL GUN and kill properly!

reply to post by jd140

Dont forget why you are there and who sent you.
It wasnt the "bleeding hearts".
It was the conservative war mongers bent on securing oil contracts.
You said bleeding! OMG!

Originally posted by dodadoom
reply to post by jd140

 

Dont forget why you are there and who sent you.
It wasnt the "bleeding hearts".
It was the conservative war mongers bent on securing oil contracts.
You said bleeding! OMG!

I blame many for the war. I blame the bleeding hearts for the way we have to fight it.

I hold more resentment to those that make fighting harder then it needs to be. As stated before war is always going to be around for one reason or another. No sense in getting upset with it.

Good point JD! Thanks!

AMERICA WAS FOUNDED ON GENOCIDE AND THEFT

www.lakotaperspectives.com...

This was not an empty land, America. It was inhabited with millions of Indians. By 1890, there were only 250,000 Indians left!! As an American, what do you think happened to all those Indians? Never in the whole history of the world was there ever a bigger genocide or one more vicious. But what is most astounding about this, is the fact that Americans know nothing about this. The late, great Tony Black Feather used to always tell me, "Americans enjoy killing. They kill for fun. They even kill each other."
This is a first hand account as given to Dahr Jamail from a man who was actually in the Mosque when the US soldiers opened fire:.......
Americans were always God fearing Christian capitalists. They let nothing stand in the way of making a profit. How did they get by with it? Just don’t report it, don’t talk about it, and if you do, just lie about it. That’s the American way.

Respect for life and that of truly magnificent wild game is what hunting is all about. Not the killing. Even trophy hunters do not enjoy the killing part. Man hunts, has hunted for ages, in order to hunt game must be killed.

www.helium.com...
More bleeding heart stuff...

As long as we keep treating animals as insentient objects that were put on this planet to serve our desires, we will continue to oppress them, continue to hurt them, and continue to torture them. This causes us to be plagued by the guilt that lies like a blanket of anguish over the collective conscience of humanity. All over the world, animals are imprisoned, enslaved, tortured and killed violently, and all over the world, people go on as if this is just fine with them. Everyone is complicit in this crime, except for those who reject the products of the animal holocaust, embrace the vegan ideal, and choose a life where harming others is not an option.

www.care2.com...

The diligent hunter takes his game for food (roasting) and considers it a precious possession, as he has food for his family's table. Today men are slaughtering animals for wicked reasons. Many elephants and rhinos are killed for their tusks and horns and their bodies are left to rot. Other animals are slain for just the sport of it and their heads and bodies are stuffed to hang on a wall for a trophy of man's prowess, while the meat was discarded. Bulls are slain for men just to watch the sport of bull fighting. Cock fighting is another sport where the cocks are put together to see which one will kill the other. Gambling is usually associated with this sport. We could name other atrocities of killing animals which take place with evil motives.

www.bible.com...

Humans kill other humans for pleasure and profit and killing on a large scale represents the intelligent and systematic application of knowledge, skills and discipline.Humans have choices. Killing is a complex of behaviors that can involve many layers of motivation and preparation and diverse goals and purposes.... The innate tendencies to kill are rooted in hunting, stealing, competition for mates, defence of social status, and ownership of territory.Humans have choices. Killing is a complex of behaviors that can involve many layers of motivation and preparation and diverse goals and purposes. The innate tendencies to kill are rooted in hunting, stealing, competition for mates, defence of social status, and ownership of territory.Humans have choices. Killing is a complex of behaviors that can involve many layers of motivation and preparation and diverse goals and purposes. The innate tendencies to kill are rooted in hunting, stealing, competition for mates, defence of social status, and ownership of territory.

www.alphastore.org...

[edit on 12-6-2009 by dodadoom]

reply to post by jd140

Why not just blame cheney/bush like you should, and admit your
over there still fighting a war that was stumbled into and bungled
up in the first place? Why are you blaming the bleeding hearts now?
Why not blame the ones who make you fight it AT ALL?
If you do the research, cheney was the one pushing
for it all along and he's STILL trying to justify it!
Sorry to seemingly go off topic. But war is killing.
And killing for the worst reason of all. Just because we think we need to.
Ya, we enjoy it alright, seems to give our lives meaning
and a sense of purpose.


[edit on 12-6-2009 by dodadoom]

There's nothing wrong with hunting. Every hunter I know is a conservationist and respects and protects the resource. Hunting is a part of our heritage. Shooting pests and nuisance animals is sometimes a necessity, to protect crops, property, whatever.

However, that pigeon shoot is disgusting. What possible satisfaction does one get from such an act? Raising birds just to slaughter them? To me, this is right up there with dog fighting. Those guys should go to jail.

[edit on 12-6-2009 by TheComte]

Well, many humons do love the taste of flame broiled flesh and blood (a.k.a. MEAT), and that goes hand in hand with murder, so yeah, sure, many humons defiantly do get their rocks off killing ... AND eating their victims afterwards. The proof is in their diet!

reply to post by TheComte

Thank you for that post! Indeed what is up with that?
It must be a deep seated need to feel all powerfull.
An ego trip that never ends.....even throughout adulthood.
I actually have a pet pigeon.
No one will ever know the joy he has brought me and
I have had many pets throughout my life so I know
what a good pet is.
I could start a whole thread on him and I just might,
but after the way this one went I think I'll shoot myself instead,
so these guys will be satisfied and can drink their beers
together and talk about more killin' and cool stuff like that.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Um, wrong. Not murder. Murder basically killing with malicious intent. If you kill an animal simply to eat that is not with malice. Life feeds on life. Or do you feel that we should lock up *gasp* murder them* or wipe out every predator on the planet?

[edit on 12-6-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Divinorumus

You are sooooo right! The proof is in our pants size!
Anyone who can trudge up and down freakin' mountains
packin a big a** gun looking for their food deserves to
find some. Just hope we're not on the menu one day too!