American pie a funeral hymn for America?

Short and easiest interpretation is that American Pie is a lament to the sudden death of youthful innocence, personified by the untimely deaths of Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, and J.P. Richardson in 1959. The lengthier interpretation addresses the slow death of innocence, an observation on the corruption of Rock & Roll music from its simple roots in the 50s to its sex-&-drug-driven incarnation by the late 60s.

Truth be told, songwriter Don McLean still can't tell you what the song is about, because he never understood it himself. Perhaps because he didn't write it.

Many, many, many people have written comprehensive interpretations of the song over the decades, including Rock & Roll historian Bill Griggs. I've known Bill for a little over 10 years, and he is one of the most critical critical thinkers you could ever want to meet — he has written a number of biographical pieces about various Rock & Roll legends, but with special focus on Buddy Holly. A longtime friend of the Holley family, Griggs has access to a wealth of first-hand data on Buddy Holly, so much so that he has even written a factual day-by-day biography of the late musician from west Texas.

With such an expansive knowledge of the evolution of Rock & Roll (and of Buddy Holly in particular), Bill Griggs was uniquely qualified to write a definitive interpretation of American Pie, which he did a couple of decades ago. Thereafter, Griggs approached Don McLean in person and presented him with his interpretation, asking McLean to confirm or refute a number of points long debated by rock historians.

According to Griggs, McLean accepted the composition, flipped through the pages rather mechanically, then smiled and nodded. Didn't say a word. Puzzled, Griggs reiterated his inquiries about specific points of the song's content. McLean looked genuinely blank and would not (could not) answer Bill's questions, which was astounding to the Rock historian.

When Bill told me this story, I too was baffled. How could the author of one of the most iconic pieces of American Rock & Roll music not know the meaning of his own lyrics? I asked Bill point-blank: "Do you think Don McLean is not the author of American Pie?"

Heresy. To even suggest that McLean wasn't the author was heresy, and Bill wouldn't commit to it. Still, nobody over the years has been able to elicit a comprehensive, point-by-point explanation of the lyrics from Don McLean. Ever.


— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Well, I often right things I don't full understand in an expressive capacity. At least don't fully understand at first and sometimes I don't bother to try to. Like perhaps Mr McLean. I am not saying that is the truth about him but I am merely saying.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity


that is really bitchen

I don't think we need to over psycoanalyze a good song.

You listen to it and interpet however you want, thats one of the great things about a good rock and roll song.

For instance. Everytime I hear this song I picture a guy who has just graduated High School and he realizes that the days of innocence and play is gone and he has to face the real world.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Man thats a great story Doc,thanks so much for sharing that.

The song is timeless,a true piece of art.

I was born in 67,every time I hear it I think of JFK and it fits so well to me.

reply to post by nickoli


man that is great story doc

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Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Well, I often right things I don't full understand in an expressive capacity... Like perhaps Mr McLean.

Well, of course, when I go into one of my intellectual spasms and churn out page upon page of "brilliant" prose or poetry, then come back to it a couple of months later, I'm often dumbfounded with how sappy and incoherent the writing actually is. Yeah, I'll often ask myself, Who in the hell wrote this crap, and what exactly does it mean?

That could be due to the fact that the portion of the brain that writes is not the same portion of the brain that speaks or even thinks. That's why it's much more challenging, in my opinion, to write a compelling argument than it is to scribble out a ream of lofty song lyrics. I mean, there are millions upon millions of songwriters in the world today, but only a comparative handful of successful songwriters. Those who are truly successful have refined their writing to a high art, they imbue each verse with meaning, they have developed a formula for their success. The remainder of the songwriters in the world are simply cranking out colorful but pointless metaphor for which they won't be held accountable...because nobody cares.

But here comes Don McLean in the early 70s and drops a commercial bombshell on the music scene, American Pie. It was globally successful at its debut, and has remained in play on radio stations right up to the present. As is evident from this very thread, people are still talking about it.

Now, if I had written a No.1 song that catapulted me to stardom and endeared me to several subsequent generations of listeners, I think I would be prepared to answer a few questions about the song's meaning from Day One, particularly a song as cryptic and evocative as American Pie. Fans, music historians, up-and-coming songwriters and the like clamor for explanations from those who reach the top — even if I didn't understand my own lyrics, I would quickly invent an in-depth and comprehensive explanation of my work.

But McLean, songwriter extraordinnaire, has never been able to account for his euphemism-riddled lyrics in American Pie. His stock answer is "It's poetry. Each listener has to figure it out for himself."

Well, excuuuuuse me.

If we take McLean's flippant answer at face value, then, sure, the song can be about anything the listener wishes. It can be a "funeral hymn for America," or it can be a pie recipe set to rhythm guitar, or it can be a Russian folk dance celebrating the death of Rasputin, for godsake. As long as there is no stated meaning to the song, then we're free to make random associations and apply it as we see fit.

— Doc Velocity

reply to post by Doc Velocity


I like his response. It encourages people to not just accept what he says it's supposed to mean largely because he won't tell them. But to actually think about it and come up with their own intrepretations. Which to me is the best sort of art. Where I am allowed to draw my own conclusions.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
hey doc man thanks for your posts people like you can make this a very interestig thread .but i mean it go to the site and check it out thouroughly you will trip seriously.
i tried to embed but it won't work but go there



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reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
i agree watcher here here but go there.



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reply to post by randyvs

WHO IS THE WIDOWED BRIDE

A long, long time ago, I can still remember how that music used to make me smile. I knew that if I had my chance that I could make those people dance, and maybe they'd be happy for a while. But February made me shiver, with every paper I'd deliver. Bad news on the doorstep, I couldn't take one more step, something touched me deep inside, the day the music died. I can't remember if I cried, when I read about his 'WIDOWED BRIDE' but something touched me deep inside the day the music died

We can first start off by assuming that, the 'widowed bride' is America, since the song is singing about America in the feminine sense, and notice also that America's title is 'Miss America' proclaiming her unmarried condition.

But February made me shiver, with every paper I'd deliver. 'BAD NEWS' on the door step, I couldn't take one more step."

These lyrics of the first verse say that he was delivering BAD NEWS about America who was ' HIS' 'Widowed Bride. This bad news was 'bad news being on her doorstep.' The same verse continues and says "I can't remember if I cried, when I read about 'HIS WIDOWED BRIDE." In later verses, as this prophecy unfolds, we will find out what this bad news on the doorstep is

WHO IS THE 'HIS' SPOKEN OF IN AMERICAN PIE?

TextAfter the boy read the bad news about 'HIS' widowed bride' he started singing about his own death, he then started to sing;

So, Bye Bye Miss American Pie. Drove my Chevy to the levee. But the levee was dry. Them good ole-boys were drinking, whiskey and rye singing, "This'll be the day that I die, this'll be the day that I die

According to this verses own admission we can now see that 'THE WIDOWED BRIDE IS AMERICA

reply to post by randyvs

The song refers to America as 'HIS widowed bride,' and says that her title is 'Miss' indicating that she is single, unmarried, and also that she is widowed. This first verse says also that she is to be married to someone since the lyrics of American Pie say that 'she is also a BRIDE

Then the question we then want to ask is; "Who is America to be married to?"

The only information we have is the word symbol 'HIS' from the lyric's in the first verse, where it says, 'HIS widowed bride.' So according to this first verse, America is 'HIS WIDOWED BRIDE.

I can't remember if I cried, when I read about 'HIS WIDOWED BRIDE' but something touched me deep inside the day the music died

To find out who the 'HIS' is, that Miss America is to marry, we will now go to the lyric's of the third verse of the song American Pie, and that verse will tell us who he is, it says

Now for ten years, we've been on our own, and moss grows fat on a rolling' stone. But that's not how it used to be, when the jester sang for the king and queen, in a coat be borrowed from James Dean, in a voice that came from you and me. Oh! And while the 'KING' was looking down, the jester stole 'HIS THORNY CROWN.' The courtroom was adjourned, no verdict was returned. And while Lenin read a book on Marx, the quartet practiced in the park. And we sang dirges in the dark, the day the music died. We were singing

Since we have no other information that will tell us who the 'HIS' of the first verse is, we will have to go to the song American Pie for an explanation. We can find out through the song's own interpretation that the 'HIS' in this song wore a 'crown of thorns' (NOTE-thorny crown), and also that he was a King. The third verse says

And while the 'KING' was looking down the jester stole HIS THORNY CROWN

According to the Christian Bible, 'the King who wore a crown of thorns was, Jesus Christ.' The Bible says that Jesus wore a crown of thorns

29: And when they had platted a 'CROWN OF THORNS', they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

Most of the word symbols used in 'American Pie' come directly or indirectly from, 'the Christian Bible.' So then, according to Matthew 27:27-29 the King (NOTE-the 'HIS') who wore a crown of thorns was none other than Jesus. The word symbol "HIS" in verse one, and in verse three, can be none other than the 'Jesus of the Bible

AMERICAN PIE SAYS THAT JESUS IS A KING, THE BIBLE ALSO SAYS THAT JESUS IS A KING

VERSE ONE OF AMERICAN PIE SAYS THAT AMERICA IS THE FUTURE BRIDE OF JESUS, THE BIBLE SAYS THIS ALSO

[edit on 12-6-2009 by randyvs]

Well... Being a lifelong fan of the music of Buddy Holly, I've always accepted the early verses of the song for what they are, a rather straight-on narrative of the impact of Buddy Holly's sudden death on the young Don McLean. While he's silent on the meaning of the majority of the song, McLean does admit that he learned of the 1959 tragedy while delivering newspapers in early February of that year, and that he equated Holly's death with the death of Rock & Roll music.

"Bad news on the doorstep" refers to the newspaper headlines announcing Holly's death. "His," therefore, is a direct reference to Buddy Holly. "Widowed bride" is a direct reference to Buddy's pregnant wife, Maria Elena Holly. As I said, the early verses are pretty much a simple narrative lead-in, perhaps the only straightforward and unambiguous lyrics in the song.

Given that McLean still refuses to elaborate on the song's "deeper meaning," I suppose anyone can fill in the blanks with whatever sentimental or prophetic meaning they wish.

I mean, I remember arguing once that American Pie was a condemnation of television. Sure, why not? In retrospect, I know I argued that point primarily because I myself hate television and have hated it for decades. So, I sought out that meaning in the song.

As long as the author assigns no hard-and-fast meaning to the lyrics, I suppose American Pie can be a mirror for whatever is simmering in your subconscious.

— Doc Velocity

Note: This prophecy of God's divorce from Israel is referring to the captivity of Israel by the Assyrians. Thus God divorced Israel by putting her away into the Assyrian captivity

THE BIBLE SAYS THAT GOD WAS MARRIED TO ANCIENT ISRAEL

When I read about 'HIS WIDOWED BRIDE; but something touched me deep inside the day the day the music died.

AMERICA IS THE WIDOWED BRIDE OF AMERICAN PIE AND THE BIBLE

What does this song mean when it says that America is 'widowed?' The song says that America is a WIDOWED BRIDE. Common sense says that, 'for a woman to be widowed, her husband would have had to 'die' somewhere in her past. Notice that this song 'American Pie' refers to America collectively and, symbolically as in 'the feminine sense.' Who was white Anglo-Saxon America's husband? Where and how did her husband die?

Note: This prophecy of God's divorce from Israel is referring to the captivity of Israel by the Assyrians. Thus God divorced Israel by putting her away into the Assyrian captivity

We will also learn the story of why 'Miss America's' husband died, and why she is referred to as a 'widow' and a bride to Jesus. We will now research and study the history of ancient Israel, and it's relation to the white Anglo-Saxon race, of America

reply to post by randyvs

TextIn Isaiah 54:4 God says;

4: Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.

GOD DIVORCES ISRAEL

Isa 50:1 Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

Note: This prophecy of God's divorce from Israel is referring to the captivity of Israel by the Assyrians. Thus God divorced Israel by putting her away into the Assyrian captivity

According to history and the Christian Bible, Ancient Israel was dispersed throughout all the nations of the world, but that in the 'latter days,' was to be regathered collectively into a great nation, and a company of nations. This prophecy (Isa. 54:4-8) said that the regathering of Israel would be after God, (who is Jesus, as most Christians believe) died, therefore making Israel a widow

According to history and the Christian Bible, Ancient Israel was dispersed throughout all the nations of the world, but that in the 'latter days,' was to be regathered collectively into a great nation, and a company of nations. This prophecy (Isa. 54:4-8) said that the regathering of Israel would be after God, (who is Jesus, as most Christians believe) died, therefore making Israel a widow

According to Gods law, a woman was not allowed to marry another man, while her husband still lived even though she was divorced from him. She was allowed to marry again, only if her husband died

Jesus, who is God, literally fulfilled the law by his dying on the cross. Since the God of the Old Testament died on the cross, which he did, and his new name was Jesus, which it was, then according to Gods law he also, was free to marry again, to marry his Bride, 'Israel

The song 'American Pie' refers to America as 'Miss America,' signifying that she is unmarried, because of her title 'Miss.' The song also say's by it's own interpretation that America is a 'widow' and the future 'bride' of Jesus

With this information you have just learned, I will now make the historical and Biblical connection from America to Ancient Israel, who was married to God, then divorced from him, widowed, and then became a bride who is to be married to him (Jesus) at some future date.

To more clearly understand the song 'American Pie' I will make this Biblical and historical connection of 'White-Anglo-Saxon America' (who is the 'Widowed Bride') to Ancient Israel, who's husband died therefore making Israel a widow. I will now go into Bible history and secular history, and prove to you that 'White Anglo-Saxon America' is 'Israel regathered along with the other nations of Christendom consisting of the Germanic, Scandinavian, and Kindred Peoples

to be continued


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Originally posted by randyvs
...it never made any sense to me that this song was written about Buddy Holly.
i found this and sadly enough it makes a world of sense more...

That's because it isn't only about Buddy Holly. It's about the loss of the American Innocence of the 1950s and 1960s, which Buddy Holly was a part of. Buddy Holly's death is a metaphor for the loss of our innocence.

The song's composer Don McLean and other music critics have pretty all said that's what the song is about. I suppose the words are so general that anyone in any time could relate to it, but that was not Don McLean's intention.

[edit on 6/25/2009 by Soylent Green Is People]