Britain's Elites Converting to Islam

Originally posted by kode
it is quite possible and indeed fact that england could be becoming a new islamic nation.

I don't claim to much about the British, but I have several friends from over there that have decided to live here. Of all the people I know they seem the least suseptable to any kind of organized religion. The British I've met in bars & whatnot also are some of the most arrogant folks I've run into & it's been my experience that arrogant folks are leaders & not followers.

ARROGANT LEADER TYPES MAKE OBNOXLY LEADING PREACHERS. Believe me, religion has those who are arrogant and those who are timid.

I COR. 12:8-19 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills. For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. For the body is not one member, but many. If the foot says, "Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. And if the ear says, "Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body," it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body.) If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. If they were all one member, where would the body be?

Just as it presents, I have my persuasive talents peanut gallery in the background: ahem: annoyance, cough, cough, hack � so others are the strong leaders that are needed.


[Edited on 5-5-2004 by jlc163]

[Edited on 5-5-2004 by jlc163]

Originally posted by Leveller
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Special AsianX. I hold all religions with the same high level of disregard. I don't single out Islam, although that does seem to have it's fair share of dangerous fanatics at the moment.
You accuse me of knowing nothing about Islam and then go onto the typical apologists excuse of the Crusades. It's a boring argument - "My religion might be crap, but this other one is crappier".

i never said islam was my religion... and i never said chrisianity was crappier. you are putting words into my mouth. a great sign of ignorance, cant think of anything to say to what i ACTUALLY said, so make up something i didnt say and respond to that

To those of us who don't follow your tribal gods, they're all crap. Learn about the Crusades first as well. The people who use it as an argument are normally squawking parrot fashion what they have been told. They don't actually know a thing about it's history or that it was sparked by Islamic expansionism into Christian lands or attrocities like cartloads of thousands Christian POW heads being transported like a circus show around Southern Europe and North Africa. Each religion has it's fair share of guilt for the Crusades. Islam is as culpable as Christianity - the fact that it got it's ass kicked doesn't make it innocent. It just makes it a whining bully.

Maybe you need to learn something about the crusades leveller... yeah the crusaders won one crusade, but the others were miserable failures which is why the holy lands were in islamic hands untill this time. Also they werent because of muslims invading christian lands to start with, it was because the islamic controlled lands new ruler was more hardline and wouldnt let pilgrims come to the holy lands to worship... so the christians came in and decided to invade (which worked but they lost the lands very quickly).

So your god is the same as the Jewish and Christian god is he? That's why all 3 faiths look down upon each other then isn't it? That's why there has been centuries of warfare then isn't it? Yup. When people have the same god they kill each other do they? You're talking crap.

My god? i never said allah was my god. and your showing your ignorance once again there leveller, the three major monotheistic religions do worship the same god, its just their teachings vary slightly. and your argument that becausethey look down at each other doesnt prove a thing... look at hinduism, they all worship the same god but they look down on their lower castes (oh if you dont know anything about hinduism either i wouldnt be suprised). The reason the three monotheistic religions look down on each other is they all think that their version of the teaching is right. if you;ve actually studies any of these leveller you'd see their teachings are really more or less identical

The Holy Books of the 3 main religions were written for specific people. The Islamic and Jewish faiths are totally polarised with their stupid laws of grovelling and fawning before a god. Like he really gives a # if you wash a thousand timers or prostrate yourself towards the East. Do you really think a god would demand such trivialities from worshippers.

so christianity doesnt involve grovelling? it involves it as much, if not more, than Judaism and Islam (i wouldnt call it grovelling i'd call it worship, but i guess ignorance makes you cynical)... not only does christianity worship god but it worships jesus as well, twice as much worship (or grovelling) as the other two... i understand that islam has to pray 5 times a day, and thats one reason i am no longer islamic, its just too much prayer, but at least we only pray to one entity

Still, I guess you have to go along with the flow if you want salvation don't you? The only reason you guys follow Allah is so you get better cookies in the afterlife. Hang on - isn't that service to self? Devil worship?
Hmmmm. Think about that one.

the islamic after life is the same as any of the other 'big two', heaven and hell. and why is it because muslims want to go to heaven its service to self, but if anyone else follows a religion to go to heaven it isnt... man your arguments are so crap leveller and so obviously bias you dont even do a good job hiding your bias and yet try to deny it!!! i am going to read the rest of this thread and look forward to reading more of your stuff, because it makes me realise that i'm really not so stupid after all

Heh!!! You're even more ignorant than you proclaim me to be.
If you'd have read my posts you would have found that I'm not one of the sheep who follows any religion so trying to justify an argument with comparisons of Islam to Christianity is a total waste of time. I hold all organised religion in contempt for the hatred and control that it has forced upon mankind.

You say you're not a Muslim?

"understand that islam has to pray 5 times a day, and thats one reason i am no longer islamic, its just too much prayer, but at least we only pray to one entity?"

Then what the # is the "we".

" i never said chrisianity was crappier. you are putting words into my mouth. a great sign of ignorance, cant think of anything to say to what i ACTUALLY said, so make up something i didnt say and respond to that"

Sure you didn't. Let's flick up the page shall we?

"And as for the teachings of islam killing more people than some serial killers you obviously dont know much about history...
The Crusades, where christians ramapged in the holy lands killing thousands of innocent civilians (muslim and greek orthodox)...
The inquisition, where, in the name of catholicism, thousands upon thousands were killed, tortured or both for the slightest breaches in religion or even for simply being a non-catholic..."

That sure looks like a "their religion is crappier than this one" kinda argument in my eyes. So yet again you accuse me of ignorance yet display a shockingly blatant outburst of it yourself.

"Slight variations between methods of worship"?

Yeah. I suppose arranged marriages, the treatment of women, slaughter of animals, different definitions of god and heaven, different prayer modes and the hundreds of other "slight variations" means that Islam is indistinct from the other two religions, huh? As for the same god? Let's not even mention the pagan origins of Christianity. Or their blasphemous (according to Islam) worship of the Trinity shall we?

As for the Crusades. You make the same argument as any other person who knows nothing about them. You believe that the Crusades were in response to only one factor. The Crusades were something that built up over centuries. There were many defining factors. Pilgrimage was just one. I've stated another couple elsewhere. You accuse of ignorance yet you show no understanding of the subject yourself.



As you said in your last paragraph, I agree and would suggest you read the rest of this thread. Next time, it would be better to read all of it first before you reply.




[Edited on 5-5-2004 by Leveller]

OMG, I cant believe what Im aboiut to say...........

I am in agreement with leveller, of ALL people!

GASP!

Islam is a crock of #, just like Christ-insanity and Judism.

They all sprang from the same root crock, so technically, they are worshipping a similar god.

The Christian god is simply a semetic tribal god forced upon the indigenous peoples of Europe. I despise it just like i despise all other foreign forced alien religions and thier sick unatural tennets.

But, Illuminatic os wrong. The Muslims did NOT bring perfect peace and prosperity. the indaved and destroyed indigenous cultures and ethnic groups, replaced religions, engaged in slavery, ect. peaceful for Muslims maybe. But Islam was the first one to go on a crusade of sorts, a forced conquest of religion to spread by the sword and take over other countries. Why in the hell blacks follow Islam is beyond me. Muslims enslaved so many Africans it was incredible. Where do you think the Spaniards got the idea for importing and capturing black slaves?

THE #ING MOORS.

It is only because the newly converted Christians of Europe were none other than the warrior germanic tribes who still refused to allow aliens on thier homelands is the reason Europe isnt a big fat Muslim land and I can walk around in a miniskirt, drink, and tell males to # off when they try and make me do something.

And Muslims DO try and convert people. I learned THAT in Saudi. They tried converting me, and I laughed. Why would I want to adopt one idiodic myogynist religion right after I had shed another?

I need no god in my life to live by strict disciplinary standards. I can control my weight and drinking and drug use WITHOUT some grand spook in space threatening me with damnation for it.

The fact that islam is so rapidly increasing in the face of modern technology, logic, reason, and prgress re-enforces my long held belief that humanity is comprised of sheep and morons who still cant get past the fact there is no god, no devil, no easter bunny, no santa claus. Humanity is comprised of emotionally and mentally retarded children.

But I do believe islam will overtake Europe, not by conversion, but by birthrates and immigration, to where athiests and christians will be in the minority.

Islam is a crock of #, just like Christ-insanity and Judism.

Geez, thats abit extreme. I don't see what the big problem is with Islam. Every religion have there extremists.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
But I do believe islam will overtake Europe, not by conversion, but by birthrates and immigration, to where athiests and christians will be in the minority.

Nice to see that someone else can see this coming. Like the Catholics, most Muslims rarely practice birth control [Tanzim Al-Haml (Birth Control)] and their birthrates are already the among the highest in the world, while the western cultures are all about birth control and controlling population growth. That formula can only produce one result.

Maybe "Elites" in the UK are converting to Islam because they figure they had better hedge their bets and get a good Islamic history going. Maybe they are just seeing which way the wind is blowing (from the desert apparently). This techneque is an old one, and is used widely in the US by many so called christians.

Originally posted by infinite

According to a report by IslamOnLine, an Islamic website, 14,000 of England?s ?elite? have already converted to Islam, with more on the way.

Britain's Elites Converting to Islam


According to a report by IslamOnLine, an Islamic website, 14,000 of England?s ?elite? have already converted to Islam, with more on the way.

I find it fascinating that in this day and age, people, especially the "elite", are still converting to any organized religion at all.

I thought most people outgrew the "My God is better than your God" stuff around age 12.

I think they have an agenda for "converting".

What happens is that most of the ELITE find that they have a lot in common with one group and stick to it until there is not enough in common to hold them together. Other times, they buck the system and change the heart of the group they are with. Other times these ELITE turn out to be DAVID CORESH...

whom I have no real problem with (would never follow him), but most of the world thinks he was WAY too nuts.