Jesus Christ, Stop Bashing Christians

reply to post by tinfoilman


No silly, extremist is someone who kills another person because of their beliefs, you have to admit that's pretty extreme.

If I believe in Islam, you are an infidel, sayingyour not muslim, and it would be alright to kill you, that's pretty 'extreme'.

Christians stoning children who talk back to their parents is pretty extreme.

It's a grey line i'll admit but you can usually pick out when it becomes extreme.

Leaving your child in a car for 6 hours while you 'teach them a lesson' is extreme.

Spanking not so much.

I'll admit though it is a cheap shot against christians, because the cheap shots are well, cheap. Dime a dozen, which is important in this type of economy.

Extremist is not as Napolatino would have you believe is a war veteran, but perhaps a person with skill in war, and is against say, hmmm, blind people, and started killing them, that would be extremist.

Osama Bin Laden, would be considered an extremist, killing people in a "gods' will. That's extreme, preaching people to your religion is not extreme, an ultimatum is an extreme, one choice or you die, kind of decision.

In this case, it was a you die, because i'm against what your for!
Which is extreme!

reply to post by The Mack


Ouch, the title is pretty offensive, actually. It sounds as if you are telling Jesus to stop bashing Christians, or else you are using the name of Jesus in a bad way.

A lot of people who call themselves Christians are not, because true Christians follows Christ's teaching, which is to be gentle, loving and forgiving.

Extremists have given Christianity a bad name, and I agree that the Bible is not to be fully believed.

I would have called this thread "Stop blaming Jesus for the actions of so-called Christians".

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

No silly, extremist is someone who kills another person because of their beliefs, you have to admit that's pretty extreme.

If I believe in Islam, you are an infidel, sayingyour not muslim, and it would be alright to kill you, that's pretty 'extreme'.

Christians stoning children who talk back to their parents is pretty extreme.

It's a grey line i'll admit but you can usually pick out when it becomes extreme.

Leaving your child in a car for 6 hours while you 'teach them a lesson' is extreme.

Spanking not so much.

I'll admit though it is a cheap shot against christians, because the cheap shots are well, cheap. Dime a dozen, which is important in this type of economy.

Extremist is not as Napolatino would have you believe is a war veteran, but perhaps a person with skill in war, and is against say, hmmm, blind people, and started killing them, that would be extremist.

Osama Bin Laden, would be considered an extremist, killing people in a "gods' will. That's extreme, preaching people to your religion is not extreme, an ultimatum is an extreme, one choice or you die, kind of decision.

In this case, it was a you die, because i'm against what your for!
Which is extreme!

Yeah see it's this grouping thing people do. All these things are just labels in my view. Like Osama is an extremist. This christian is an extremist. That guy over there is an extremist. that guy is a republican. That guy is a democrat.

Alright, so we have our labels. So what I'm saying is let's sit back for a second and look at this for a second. So this guy is a crazy "extremist"" right? Or a crazy "Christian-extremist" right? Okay, we'll go for that for a moment.

But who's labeling him an extremist? Who's labeling him an Christian? Why not label him as "mental" instead? My point is, who's using the labels and why in this particular story? Who are they trying to make look bad? Who are they trying to make look good? Are they trying to make anybody look bad?

For what purpose is the media using labels to direct your thought? What are they trying to get us to sympathize here with this story? Why are they telling this story and not some other story? What's the point here? Is there a point?

reply to post by tinfoilman


You know as well as I, have seen this used commonly amongst Foxnews.com, it's a terrible thing, it's subtle enough, but still noticeable.

It's not that he's a christian extremist, it's that he's an extremist!

He's killing people!, In this case a Muslim extremist, i've worked for muslims, i've gone to mosque with them, most are really nice great enjoyable people, their not extremist, now if my boss tried, or did kill me, he would be an extremist.

Originally posted by The Mack
reply to post by ahnggk

 

Yes but remember even Gandhi said

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

I must agree with you about this, but that still gives no reason to bash every Christian you see, even if it's just 1% who actually follow Christ!

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

You know as well as I, have seen this used commonly amongst Foxnews.com, it's a terrible thing, it's subtle enough, but still noticeable.

It's not that he's a christian extremist, it's that he's an extremist!

He's killing people!, In this case a Muslim extremist, i've worked for muslims, i've gone to mosque with them, most are really nice great enjoyable people, their not extremist, now if my boss tried, or did kill me, he would be an extremist.

But why the word extremist? Because they killed someone because of what they believe? But that's every murderer? Would you kill someone for something you didn't believe in? What happened to the word murderer? You can be an extremist without being a murderer. You can't murder someone without being a murderer though. Wouldn't murderer be a better term to label the murderer?

It's because they want to attack Christianity with it. They want to attack all religions. I'm not a murderer. But if I believe some of the same things that this guy does I could be an "extremist" right? That's why they need the new label. So they can label people they don't like murderers via association even though I never met the guy.

And the abortion doctor. Just a few decades ago HE would have been the murderer for killing unborn babies. But now, after Roe V. Wade, he's the persecuted victim. Why? Why the new world view? And why do they need me to believe it? These labels are propaganda. This just isn't, some guy killed a doctor. This is some extremist killed an abortion doctor.

extremist, democrat, republican, fundi,christian, and whatever else. These are all labels, but what are labels used for? They're used to sell you something. They're used to sell me something. What is it they're trying to sell me? It's that religion is bad and abortion is good. But why are they trying to sell me that?

[edit on 2-6-2009 by tinfoilman]

reply to post by tinfoilman


Perhaps to have you believe what they believe.

The semantics isn't the debate.
An extremist IMO is someone who does extreme acts on full behalf of their religion, sect, denomination, country, etc etc etc...

A murderer is some IMO who kills a neighbor while trying to steal something or blood killing a crip, etc etc etc.

If you believe in such and such religion, that's great, no harm done eh'. If you start killing people you've infringed on my right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happines, you've demolished all of them. Especially the first, which is not under your control, to make it acceptable by claiming it's a theocracy that gave you the right is preposterous! We live in a democracy instead.

If he is considered a murderer, is an eye for an eye appropriate, why not take it the justfull route, instead of making both sides look bad, it does no good.

If I was doing something wrong, would you make it ok to go against me by doing something wrong, would that even make sense?

Ok i have to say my peace here. I see everyone talking about extremists and i just have to say that everyone please remember one thing. Everything is relative to the people or persons involved. Your perception is your and not someone elses. There are people in the world who would see one issue as extreme others who dont get it and think its just silly.
We talk about killing in the name of this and the name of that as being extreme, but killing when your government says so and when your people are rallied around a cause is just. Example WWII. The people of that era in the U.S. probobly felt real justified at killing anyone who would attack the United States just as we all felt after 911. Killing is killing period. You can define your side as right but there is always that other side who says WTF this is wrong.
Life is about perspectives and relative relation to things. I dont condone killing someone i never have but would i do it. YES if my cause was just and i felt it needed to happen. If someone molested my kid they are going to die simply put. I dont ask you or anyone to understand it. Its my cause and i will pay the price my society deems i should pay for that.
Should i pay for something like that. Well i think so. I think if i deem it fit to take the life of another person then i should pay a price. Its societys decision what that price should be but killing is wrong to me for any reason. It doesnt mean i cannotbe motivated to do it.
If my country is attacked and people are going up and down my block in uniforms killing people, i will get the nearest gun i can find and i will defend my life, my home and my country with every effort i can including killing whoever it is that is trying to kill me.
To speak of the person who kills someone over a religious ideal i would say theyare wrong simply because we have got to live in a world of order and have laws to provide that order. No laws or system of laws is ever going to be perfect so leave that debate for another day. However i understand how a person can be motivated to try and change the world they liev in through violence. Not because i have that mind but because it has and always will be an effective tool in society to cause fear towards intended groups. History teaches us that as long as there are people on this planet with free will to think what they want and interpret the world around them according to their views then there will always be people willing to die and kill for those same ideas. Its human nature and you can argue all day about good vs evil and who is right and who is wrong. Again i point out how perspective is in matters like these. The one doing the killing thinks they are right along with anyone who supports such a cause no matter what the cause is.

Now as far as christianity goes the ones who claim that it is anti christian are right it is very anti-christian. Jesus preached a message of love and helping one another. Love on another as i have loved you etc etc etc. He was a non violent man but i agree with the quote from ghandi whoever posted it. That is why i personally dont claim religion of any kind. I am christian in my heart and mind but i do not go to a church and practice the faith because i have never found anyone in my 40 years who came close to trying to measure up to anything christian like. Including myself. i love the message and i think that jesus was right on how man should live with one another. We just are not ready to love one another truly. How many people out there who like me would preach tolerance and peace but would need just a slight nudge to fight for what we believe in and that means as history has shown to include violence against my fellow man.
Only time and history will record who is accepted as saint and who is sinner, who was evil and who was good.

Originally posted by Republican08
reply to post by tinfoilman

 

Perhaps to have you believe what they believe.

The semantics isn't the debate.
An extremist IMO is someone who does extreme acts on full behalf of their religion, sect, denomination, country, etc etc etc...

A murderer is some IMO who kills a neighbor while trying to steal something or blood killing a crip, etc etc etc.

If you believe in such and such religion, that's great, no harm done eh'. If you start killing people you've infringed on my right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happines, you've demolished all of them. Especially the first, which is not under your control, to make it acceptable by claiming it's a theocracy that gave you the right is preposterous! We live in a democracy instead.

If he is considered a murderer, is an eye for an eye appropriate, why not take it the justfull route, instead of making both sides look bad, it does no good.

If I was doing something wrong, would you make it ok to go against me by doing something wrong, would that even make sense?

Well what I think isn't really all that important. He shouldn't have killed the doctor, but I don't believe in eye for an eye or the death penalty and I don't believe revenge should be involved in the justice system at all, but that's another story.

What worries me is why are they trying to make me believe what they believe. I'm not in politics. I hold no position of power. If abortion was so great it should sell itself right? Same thing with religion. Why don't they just get rid of the propaganda and say a guy murdered a doctor. Or just murdered another guy for that matter. That's all I need to know.




[edit on 2-6-2009 by tinfoilman]

Originally posted by tinfoilman
If abortion was so great it should sell itself right? Same thing with religion.

It's selling great actually mostly done in a secretive fashion due to the very sensitive nature. It's hardly ever heard unless you do a bit of looking into it.

No thanks to selfish people who only want sex and nothing in between. It's not just the doctor's fault.

Who knows you maybe an anti-abortionist, and your daughter just had a secret abortion you never knew, things like that. It's a very sad fact.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by ahnggk]

Originally posted by ahnggk

Originally posted by tinfoilman
If abortion was so great it should sell itself right? Same thing with religion.

It's selling great actually mostly done in a secretive fashion due to the very sensitive nature. It's hardly ever heard unless you do a bit of looking into it.

No thanks to selfish people who only want sex and nothing in between. It's not just the doctor's fault.

Who knows you maybe an anti-abortionist, and your daughter just had a secret abortion you never knew, things like that. It's a very sad fact.

[edit on 2-6-2009 by ahnggk]

Well if I had a daughter the one thing I would make sure she asked herself is if abortion is wrong, why would someone try to convince you it wasn't? If it wasn't wrong then why would someone try to convince you it is?

Same with religion. Then she'll just have to make up her own mind.

reply to post by ahnggk


I also agree, i do not think any should bash anyone here unless they are intentionally trying to mislead people on ATS.

Click here for more information.

I SECOND THAT!

If you have nothing good to say, usually towards an upbringing of others a lifestyle or whatever, please keep your hatred to yourself.

**your hurting my eyes**

Christians killing gay people? So when did this happen per chance? I don't think I have ever read where a true christian killed a gay man just for his beliefs. Now there are some people that claim to be christian that do these things but they fall short. Jesus gave two commandments in which all commandments hinge on. He said to love God with all Your heart & then to love Your neighbor as Yourself. So please tell me how these people are christian. The christian walks and follows these two tenants.


I mean seriously skin heads and the white supremisist claim to be christian. They have so morphed christianity into a nationalistic idealology where whites are the chosen race and jews and blacks are satans children. Now on the other side of the spectrum they have the black churches that do the same thing. So how on earth can You even claim these people are christian? I mean seriously if You were a christian You sure as hell wouldn't want to associate with people like this.


Just because You buy a harley and leathers don't mean You are part of the hells angels.

Its like saying that the crazed attitudes of one man , Adolf Hitler, mean we shouldn't cast the entire Nazi party with the same dye -

Christian Church at its very core is a corrupt, nefarious institution which absolutely needs to be outlawed - simple as that.

What the bible says is neither here nor there- the acts of Christians over millennia serve as evidence enough as to what their evil church stands for -

Originally posted by tinfoilman

Originally posted by Republican08
Seems like churches seem to be the fad to start killing people in.

It's I guess an example of extremist behavior, if you don't like what that person is doing because your Friend upstairs wrote a book thousands of years ago, you must kill him, now! Gun him down like a madman. Then be praised for doing the lords work.

I'm waiting for them to make an Idol out of the shooter. Just like when they held picket signs and marches when that gay man was killed for, get this, being gay. He must die, not cause i want him to die, god wants him to die.

Don't worry, it's just a small taste, don't even try to look at Islam.

But really what would you say if an Islam spokesman came out and said "Islam should not be criticized for killings, because of a few troublemakers".

You'd go WTF, in a heartbeat.

Christianity has kept it on the down low, but it's rearing it's ugly head, wait for the fundamentalist to come out. Just wait for it.

So the next time a black person commits a crime I can be like, they were on the down low, but those coloreds are about to rear their ugly heads right?

Or how about the next time some redneck shoots someone? Can we finally go after all those rednecks and get rid of those?

What, just what if an Atheist kills someone? That makes them all murderers right? Ooooohhh, because I knew an Atheist that killed someone once. Things aren't looking good for the Atheists anymore are they? Hope you aren't one. You belong to a group of murderers! How could you?

How about the next time someone on ATS goes nuts? Does that mean we can be like oh look those ATSers are rearing their ugly head now! You know that's what they'll do right?

Me personally I'm just waiting for another republican sex scandal and then I can say all republicans are pedos and then they'll never get elected again. Hey, that's what we did to the Catholics right? I mean, come on, if one of em does it they've all got to be like that right?

Of course, it's all fun and games until tomorrow and you wake up and your suddenly the new stereotype and scapegoat for the MSM. You do know that's what this is right? Media hype? Let's get the ratings up? Some wacko killed someone and we'll hype it all up as some crazy Christian as hard as we can so you'll tune in and we'll sell your advertisings all while you get worked up and yell at your TV screen.

You know that's what this is right? You have figured that out haven't you? That this is the MSM and those on the net with their own agenda playing you so you'll pay attention to THEM and THEIR agenda right?

You know they could have went out and found an atheist wacko or a buddhist wacko or liberal wacko or conservative wacko just as easy as right? You know we're pretty much all wacko and the MSM just uses that to pit us against each other right?

[edit on 2-6-2009 by tinfoilman]

Not too many years ago a doctor of the jewish Faith murdered over two hundred patients who were majority christian.

This occurred in Manchester UK, it was the worst ever ever ever mass murder event in British History, his religious background was minimised to the extreme, but no one suggests his faith means no one should trust Jewish Doctors even though he is suspected in killing hundreds more.

Christ followers , muslims,hindus,jews yes we can mention them legally still...are composed of good and bad.

What I am trying to say is, all acts that are antisocial, including the big one, murder, involves some measure of psychosis.

I'm sure you just phrased this wrong. If antisocial=psychotic, then I'm hoping that you know a good facility to refer me to so I can get the help I need.

As far as painting all Christians guilty because of the actions of fundmentalists of the religion, I have mixed feelings.

For us non-Christians, it is very hard for us not to equate Christianity with the fundies. The moderate and liberal Christians have allowed the fundies to dominate in this culture, you've let them become the public face of Christianity to Americans and the non-Christian world (just like the Muslims). It is your responsibility to police your own.

You know they are not interpreting the basic tenets of Christianity correctly, yet you do not call them on it. You let them blaspheme your religion and your God, then force the rest of us to deal with the problems they create.

You have the power to do good and you refuse to take responsibility to defend the rest of the world from the extremists that claim your religion.

On the other hand, those that do paint all Christians with the actions of the fringe, are pretty silly themselves. If you have a group of 100's of millions of people, there will probably be a few bad apples. Do we dump Scientists because of Hiroshima? Do we dump Rock and Roll because of Brittney?

I'm not a big fan of Christianity myself, but I have met enough Christians that cite their faith as the reason for living socially beneficial lives, raising well-balanced children, etc. that I can't throw them all into the same trash heap anymore. IMO, there is a lot of negative associated with Christians or any other religion, but there is a lot of positive as well. . .too much positive to paint them all with a bigot's brush.

"Christianity" basically destroyed the USA and has been on a rampage to send us back to the stone ages destroying Human progress. So to say the church influenced this psyco is NOT a far stretch at all! It may be harsh but anyone that believes in such myths and madness deserves to be bashed for it. my likely unpopular 2c

reply to post by The Mack


You know how to stop all that?


Deny Ignorance... If you are a Christian, and you see Christians on the news being fascist, then speak out against it... explain that Christianity is about learning to love your neighbor NO MATTER WHAT THEY BELIEVE OR DO

Anything else is NOT Christianity....

The world needs to hear this from Evangelicals and Baptists and all of these different denominations including the Catholics....

They need to make a distinction between what believers of their faith follow and how they relate to people outside of their faith...

Jesus would be appalled at the state of Christianity today and would probably sue to have his name removed...

In the end, if someone from my group or belief acts like an idiot, and I don't say anything about it in an attempt to set the record straight... then I am just as guilty for the bad name my belief has than anyone else...