A better USA! - A National Divorce. Libs and Cons divided into separate nations!

We all know that our nation is struggling. It is because we are divided against ourselves, and we all know that anything divided against itself cannot stand.

With this understanding, I propose that we split this great nation into two great nations. One will be filled with Liberals and the other with Conservatives. Each member of the country can choose which one they want to live in.

You may wonder, how would this look. Well let me give you an idea.

The Liberal USA would take on the full Liberal Agenda.
1. Government support for the weak and irresponsible.
2. Full support of Mexican Immigration.
3. Avoidance of war at all costs.
4. Pro-Choice.
5. Government projects solely for work creation.
6. Complete regulation of Private Enterprise to the point of controlling a companies right to hire and fire, as well as union support and higher taxes.
7. A clean environment at any cost.
ETC...


The Conservative USA would take on the full Conservative Agenda.
1. A demand for personal responsibility. A dont work, dont eat policy. Where the only people subsidized are people with handicaps.
2. A curbing of illegal immigration.
3. Using war as a means to protect the nation and further national interests.
4. Pro-Life
5. Total free enterprise
6. Reduced taxes and government interference in the private sector.
7. A balacnce between financial needs and the environment.
ETC.

We could split the debt 50/50 upon the break up and go from there.

Now I know many of you will say that you have mix of views and so you dont fit either one. Well in my plan you would have to choose which one you are more closely related to.

I would choose the conservative side, even though I dont agree with every point. One hopeful thing is that we could see each agenda play out in full force and see who was right.

I see that we may bring the country back together after the Liberal Agenda bankrupts itself and the Conservative agenda builds a financial and military powerhouse. Maybe we could bring it back together one way or the other.

I dont think conservatives would like you mixing up conservative beliefs and neo-conservative ones.Last time i checked a huge military is not conservative,nevermind for the use of *furthering national interests* Should be nice to see how this thread plays out.

reply to post by Solomons


Well like I said, everyone wont agree with everything so they just have to pick a side.

It doesn't work that way unfortunately. How would you enforce it?

reply to post by Choronzon


You dont really have n to enforce it. Just let people volunteer on where and who they want to live with. It has to be better than being drug down by the liberal agenda. I am sure liberals feel the same way.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Independents outnumber the Democrats and the Republicans. Most Americans are not extremists and Party Hacks.

Just thought I'd interject a fact since you seem to think the country is divided between the two Party's. We are not. Just seems that way because of Political Propaganda and the very loud voices of the extremists minorities on the right and the left.

I suppose I would go live in France.

The Liberal USA would take on the full Liberal Agenda.
1. Government support for the weak and irresponsible. Like giving banks 300 billion dollars? Thanks LIBERAL GEORGE BUSH!
3. Avoidance of war at all costs. Yea, cause war is too cool to not have one.
6. Complete regulation of Private Enterprise to the point of controlling a companies right to hire and fire, as well as union support and higher taxes. Nobody wants higher taxes. The reason the Dems are proposing higher taxes is because our deficit is unsustainable, our debt is out of control, and NEITHER party is willing to reduce spending.
ETC... This list sucks.


The Conservative USA would take on the full Conservative Agenda.
1. A demand for personal responsibility. A dont work, dont eat policy. Where the only people subsidized are people with handicaps. Like giving 300 billion to the banks? Oh, we covered that already.
2. A curbing of illegal immigration. All those conservative farmers love the idea of expensive labor, I'm sure.
3. Using war as a means to protect the nation and further national interests. Preemptive war is not a conservative value. It's a neoconservative value, which isn't actually conservative at all.
5. Total free enterprise We had that all throughout the bush years (not due to change in legislation so much as change in SEC enforcement) and it almost crashed the world economy, cost us 300 billion in bailouts, and helped Barak (dem) Obama get elected.
6. Reduced taxes You can't cut taxes without cutting spending. That's news to a lot of people, apparently.
ETC.

I'd take the USA over either of those two proposed nations any day.

you should look at post war germany and see how it effected life there.

Also, would never work, the power grids and water supplies would be in the middle of the two, so who would cover the taxes then? One side will be paying tax;s for the other, and so forth. And how would you vote? Even though we all know voting doesnt realy do anything because of how rigged it is, but still it would turn into a gloryfied dictatorship.

reply to post by Kaytagg


I am sure the conservative agenda would include trimming down the government signifigantly. Unlike the Dems trying to bloat it even more out of proportion than it already is.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


I would love to trim the budget. I would bet money that over 85% of Americans agree with that. Conservative and Liberal alike. Unfortunately no candidate seems to be willing to trim the budget, except for Ron Paul. That means cutting a lot of military spending as well, btw. In fact, a good place to find loads of pork is the defense budget.

We're spending a trillion dollars on fighter jets, for example. Which of our enemies has an airforce?
I rest my case.

[edit on 26-5-2009 by Kaytagg]

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


The idea of dividing the nation using political parties is one of the most devious tools of the Powers that be, they do their best to keep Americans bickering amongst ourselves while they allow the corporations, banks, and the government to screw us out of more and more money and erode our civil liberties.

What we need is the opposite of division, divided we cannot win against the powers of tyranny, ignorance, and greed that threaten our nation (and our world). We must unite under our common core. Most Americans all truly stand for the same thing, but we don't realize it because of the party system that keeps us divided. If we would set aside those labels and recognize our common goals and attitudes we would see the true enemy, the Global Elite, the massive corporations and banks who seek to spread the shadow of their greed until it covers the entirety of the Earth...

It is ideas like this that keep so many tethered to the ignorant idea that political opinion should be based on shallow party platforms that serve only as a distraction...

Its ideas like this that put the USA in danger, not make it better...

Well it's a noble idea, works great on paper, but ofcourse there would be some huge stint on how to implement and what land each side gets.

I mean lets face, there are states that are worth far more than others. Second, what happens to companies who operate in both "countries", by that I mean seperate states?

They couln't work under a two system like that if they both had completely different rules on how to operate and what you could and could not do. Then again International business is like that, so I guess the problems could be hammered out eventually.

I don't think the country is split up in such a black and white sort of way though, we'd really have to split it up into like 4 or 5 different countries so everybody could get a piece of the pie.

Dividing the army amongst those would be pretty damn hard too.

I'm sure eventually we will find a solution that will work, but before that we kind of need to destroy this system in favor of something perhaps a little more ethical and a little more efficient.

S&F for you my friend, this thread should produce some great ideas.

~Keeper

If this happened the left side would be blown to bits within days.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude

Well, if you were to do something like that, you would have a few tens of thousands in one camp, a similar number in the other one, and about 300,000,000 people that are fed up with both ideologues, and would like to see America restored to what it was meant to be, a nation of citizens who oppose tyranny of any type- international, terrorist, or political. Today, our country suffers from tyranny of the professional politician, who could care less what the majority believe, and manage to stay in power with manipulation of the nomination process and the ballot box.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Well I beleive what would happen is that conservatives would become way more constitution oriented because they would be free of having to appease liberals. But I guess i am just assuming

Is there any way this could actually happen, in practice, without massive amounts of bloodshed through military acts and other assorted acts of violence. You could also see millions - maybe even tens of millions - of Americans displaced because they don't necessarily fit into the "Left/Right" paradigm of either nation.

There could also probably be rogue elements in both 'Americas' under this scenario waging guerrilla wars against the nation's armed forces.

A much more palatable scenario is that you over-political Americans grow up, you know, and learn to live and work with one another. Has the us/them, we/you mentality really gotten so far out of hand that people have begun to seriously consider this as any sort of acceptable solution?

The rhetoric was certainly bad under Bush's most recent reign of terror, but it seems to have escalated to new levels entirely now that a Black man holds the office.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Come on let's face it, there is no one country in the world where EVERYBODY agrees with everybody. Even in the heavily government controlled countries there is still decent and argument among it's citizens and politicians.

Just because they are part of the same party, doesn't mean they will all support the same set of rules. It's like when we see a Democractic piece of legistlation hit the floor and all but 20 republicans are in favor of it, according you system, they would ALL need to be in favor of it, as they are part of the same party.

That's simply not the case unfortunetly. The real solution is the one posted here. It's not perfect but it certainly would remove alot of the deceipt and corruption.

~Keeper

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I agree that not everyone will agree, but it has to be better than this total division where we are frozen by totally polar sets of views. 4 years libs,, 4 years cons.. back and forth.. resetting the field each time. It is crazy.

reply to post by justsomeboreddude


Yeah no I agree, a two party system is really just stupid. I mean every time america goes to the poles they ask a simple question.

They give you two bowls of poop. And they ask you to pic the colour of the bowl it's being served in. That's the only difference.

All of these people work for the same corporations who line politcians pockets and scheme for future political events.

A change needs to occur.

~Keeper