Freemasons - Another child fingerprinting scam/fair

Here is is list of locations/dates/times...take your pick.

www.google.com...:en-US&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

endless pages of examples of locations, the exact same article shows up (as the example Alex shows) in many....pick any one.

Mod Edit: Off topic comments removed. Please debate the topic and not each other.

[edit on 6/24/2009 by AshleyD]

Anyhoo,,..back to my origional comment from minute one.

"When in your lifetime have you heard of ANY child (or even adult) being SAVED from knowing in advance of their fingerprint details or DNA being saved on any database?

It is likely that in MANY (if not all) cases of child abduction 1. the child is found too late anyways 2. The information necessary is gathered immed. after the person is reported missing or 3. No such tracking has been used to actually find a missing child (if so, why aren't they in the news??).

Are people that dense?

Showing up for free/cheap hotdogs and sodas and giving up their children like this, astonishing. Disappointing and astonishing. "

ok, so there have been over 7.000 fairs like this thus far. (What is that? approximately Has anyone seen ONE news article (good news) that ONE child has been aided by doing this? Lets say 200 parents show up at any given fair, that is 140,000 children getting their DNA/prints/pics taken (and more daily). Any one know of any child returned safely because of this program?

Still no one can prove or disprove no information is NOT stored...so I guess you and I can type till we are blue in the face. NOT proven.

Amazing what little desire for future privacy and how a reward like a free bag of chips and a soda will go to some people. Some must have such ittle regard and confidence in their own parenting skills if they need to put an otherwise healthy child's life in the hands of strangers who are known for their creepy activities in history.

The odds of a child being abducted out of capable (paid daycare, school, parents, relatives) hands is rare to none (Elizabeth Smart is one example of that). Abductions happen because of a lapse of skills or improper supervision (or training and discussions with youth to avoid cars/strangers, whathaveyou) of younger children.

This is merely funding going into 'cleaning up a society's problems' by not funding organizations instead into re-forming the sexual predators or by teaching our future adults how to be genuinely sane, giving and gentle human beings. Spend the time, effort and money on education, not on identifying the dead.

Mod Edit: Off topic comments removed.

[edit on 6/24/2009 by AshleyD]

reply to post by suzque66

We don't collect it to keep it, but to compile it and give it to the parents in a packet to give to the police. As we run the program it is our business to collect the information from those who seek us to.

reply to post by suzque66

Why are you upset? You're never happy with any answer we give so we'll give what you want to hear; which are lies.

reply to post by suzque66

1. What if the year never comes?
2. If someone came forward who knows and repeated what we have, would you believe them? I highly doubt it.

I can parrot what I have said all along, but you'll just brush it aside. As for the private hired person, we don't need one nor are we required. The systems are maintained at an event by a team leader who has to go through so much training before being allowed to be team leader. He makes sure all information is deleted and there is also the equipment manager and operations chairman who ensure all protocol is being followed.

Actually, a lot of organizations associate with us. Few examples: ADA, Wal-Mart, law enforcement agencies, and military family groups. We also do work with life insurance companies, city/county fairs, and getting in contact with medical associations.

reply to post by The Party Man

Please read the prior posts as this is not a chip implant. CHIP = CHild Identification Program.

reply to post by suzque66

So you can proactively tell when a psycho is being born? How would you stop this? Sometimes individuals have imbalances that cause them to do evil.

We've answered, but you are not satisfied and will never be. Hate cannot be satisfied.

Originally posted by suzque66
nothing disgusts me more than children's cells being harvested somewhere at a later date or being put on some political watch-list

The problem with this, Suz (as well as your entire premise) is that the only place that any of these outrageous activities are happening is in your head.

I may as well start a thread about how I'm disgusted by Ukranian goat-herders wearing frilly dresses and blaspheming whilst dancing the Bolero. It's just as relevant, and as based in reality, as the "cause" that you have decided to make your own.

Oh, by the way, can you PROVE that Ukranian goat-herders DON'T engage in the aforementioned activities in the same way that you'd like Freemasonry to prove that it doesn't harvest cells for nefarious purposes?

It seems only fair.

You said something like masons probably lick their lips when they are finger printing children or something like that.

I said "...bet they lick their lips each sample."
was I referring to finger printing? Again, be specific or don't quote at all.

he also said. "You said they are probably collecting dna so they can come back and eat kids organs?"

you don't understand what the term 'misquote' means or not? not my issue, get a dictionary.

Why are you defending someone who cannot even read the thread nor knows how to quote someone but makes stuff up out of his own sick thoughts?

I know why, because as long as he is on YOUR side, it doesn't matter if he is 'not all there'.

that all you have Roarke?

"So you can proactively tell when a psycho is being born? How would you stop this? Sometimes individuals have imbalances that cause them to do evil."

I think you best read the post again Ksig as well as the other times in this thread I have mentioned that if we taught children how to be better human beings or rehabilitate the ones who aren't fit to act non-violent towards adults or children, then less likely there will be as many creepy adults. Put money into THAT instead of identifying dead bodies.

"Few examples: ADA, Wal-Mart, law enforcement agencies, and military family groups. We also do work with life insurance companies, city/county fairs, and getting in contact with medical associations."

Law enforcemtnt and medical associations should be doing this...for the 500th time, the masons have no business (nor does Walmart, pharmacies or insurance companies) in the DNA collecting business.

"Oh, by the way, can you PROVE that Ukranian goat-herders DON'T engage in the aforementioned activities in the same way that you'd like Freemasonry to prove that it doesn't harvest cells for nefarious purposes?"

Suz doesn't care what goat herders do, goat herders are not swabbing children. What they do with their goats are their business. What a lame comparason eesh.

The same way I have said 4 times that you internet freemasons cannot prove to me that your brothers do not store information. Nor have I seen once instance of this process being used to identify (not even going to mention saving) a child.

All these databases and not one specific use for the positive? Again....just because they haven't used the information YET, does not mean it will NOT be used in the future.

For endless pages no one can give an instance of it being used effectively. yanno, from a CREDIBLE news source, not Alex Jones. LOL


[edit on 23-6-2009 by suzque66]

Enough.

This thread is closed pending staff review and while we engage in a thread clean up. Please use this time to take a step back and cool down. Once it is reopened, please remember to stick to the topic and not each other.

Thank You. Closing for now.

This thread is now reopen for discussion and will be under vigilant staff scrutiny. Please keep the following in mind before submitting a post:

Please Stay On Topic.

Courtesty is Mandatory.

Go After The Ball, Not The Player.

The topic of discussion is: 'Freemasons - Another Child Fingerprinting Scam/Fair.'

All off topic posts after this notice will receive an off topic tag and post removal so please debate the topic and not each other after this point forward. Let's start fresh from here with everyone having a clean slate.

Thank you and happy posting.

There is nothing more for me to say anyways....you cannot reason with cult followers.

Anyone who even posts here is at the bottom of a very large totum pole and would never know the true meaning of any purpose behind collecting DNA from children...nor do they care.

Afterall, no one suspected hitler's different means of, nor his methods of intelligence gathering in his early years as a 'great guy'. What better way to collect info than to use the very citizens to do it innocently because they don't know any better to question their peers.

Originally posted by suzque66
There is nothing more for me to say anyways....you cannot reason with cult followers.

Well on that much, we seem to be able to agree. However, being in the thrall of the cult of AJ clearly seems to remove the higher brain functioning.

Originally posted by suzque66
Anyone who even posts here is at the bottom of a very large totum pole and would never know the true meaning of any purpose behind collecting DNA from children...nor do they care.

And you've demonstrated that no matter how often and in how many ways you're proved wrong in both the method and manner of how the information is collected and then given to the parents (and the parents alone), that you'd rather be consistently wrong and argue from an incorrect point than admit being wrong in the first place.

Most adults would be able to 'fess up to that sort of wanton fail. Operative word? Most.

And you've demonstrated that no matter how often and in how many ways you're proved wrong in both the method and manner of how the information is collected and then given to the parents (and the parents alone), that you'd rather be consistently wrong and argue from an incorrect point than admit being wrong in the first place.

I have yet to see any evidence that all scanning devices, photographs or DNA have been deleted from any system.

What because some website said that 'one guy stays behind to do that' ? pleaseeeee...lol who is this 'lone cowboy computer hard-drive destroyer" lol

Don't answer..its a secret shhhhhhhhhh.

And I don't follow Alex Jones like a groupie. He is 'there', means as much to me as a bus driver on the streets. Actually, I think a local bus driver is pretty cool too for being out-spoken and not afraid of ...groups or group mentality. Doesn't mean every time he picks his nose I think he is a God.

Unlike you, I don't 'follow' anyone, in media, movie stars, music, life, ANYWHERE. I learned a sense of self long ago and I don't need a group of big ol' boys patting my back or covering my a$$ for anything I have or will do in the future.

reply to post by suzque66

Sometimes you can teach someone and they still turn out bad. There can be chemical imbalances.

Why is it not our business? We are providing a ID service and this is just an addition. Like I said, it's not rocket science to do these things. We are not keeping it so what is the harm? The parent is right there when we take the DNA sample or dental impression and they see us put it in the packet. They then get it right there. Through you 500 times of saying this you cannot give any reason why it's wrong or what harm is done.

reply to post by suzque66

Let me walk you through. The parent and the child come up with the permission slip (which ours just contains the parents signature, the childs name, and date. We start inputting the information on the laptop, we have the kid push on the scanner to capture the fingerprints, we have them stand in front of the height chart where we take a front picture and two side shots. We then give them a mic where we ask them 4-questions. After that we print off the card and burn the CD. We then click "Start Over" or "Next Sibling" (if they have a sibling there which keeps just the parent data up). Once we hit "Start Over" a window pops up and says ALL INFORMATION HAS BEEN DELETED. We can't override that. The parents can be there to see this happens. Then we send them with the next station (whether it's dental or DNA) where the parent can assist.

As for your post:

We posted time after time what we do. You refuse to believe it and you refuse to give your reason for your distaste. It's an irrational fear of this program. You don't know where any of us sit on the totem pole (most non-Masons are confused as to the structure of Freemasonry).

reply to post by suzque66

We've told you to go to an event and look at the system. And as I've said, there isn't even a temp file created. The program runs and you fill in the parameters and hit print/burn. Start Over wipes everything that has been entered. It's an easy concept that my nephew gets.

You refuse to see reason and you have attacked us over it calling us names and not staying on topic.

I refuse to listen to your typing-tourettes.

NO, I don't believe you, get over it.

The same police printing scanners are used for each criminal then CLEAR and NEXT is pushed. Does it go into the air and disappear? No.

I understand that people use FEAR (as terrorism acts do) to initiate processes (Dept. of Homeland Security, now there is a winner of an idea) to take away rights. In this case, the fear of child-abduction.

I have no young children any longer that I need worry about so I am not attending any mason devil hall. lol

But, soon there will be a day when this might seem 'normal' and ok for parents to do...because society is so bad that there is no use. Besides, it is a lot easier to do this to the next generation through fear than to tag them as adults when they feel their privacy is more in jeopardy. Get the helpless parents to do it. Clever.

If I have dissuaded one parent from lining up to look up to masons like they are Messiahs of children-saving for a happy face sticker and a lollypop, my job is done

unlike whatshisname, I am done here (and I do mean what I say). You masons carry on your brotherhood meeting in here for all anyone cares. It is summer now, trying to enjoy gardening as much as possible....no help necessary, my spine can take it.

reply to post by suzque66

I understand you don't believe us. You are demanding that you want proof, but you won't take our word. You are not here to debate, you are here to slander.

I don't know what the police use, but we use a private companies fingerprint scanner. It's not a irrational fear though, child abductions do happen. You can tout all you want that we need to change society, but until we become a fascist society that will not happen.

You can continue to spread fear saying we're doing wrong, but you can't prove it and like I said in the beginning, you as the accuser must prove it for us to be guilty. This is still America.

Originally posted by suzque66
If I have dissuaded one parent from lining up to look up to masons like they are Messiahs of children-saving for a happy face sticker and a lollypop, my job is done

If that's all you've done, then statistically, you haven't accomplished anything at all. If you'd come with firsthand information and experience in your OP, you'd probably have been given more latitude by the Masons on the board. But instead you come with a secondhand Alex Jones screed and Heaven knows how many generations removed from original sources that was. So you start off with a flawed premise sourcing a questionable origin. And then for 18 pages you nay say and denigrate Masons and non-Masons alike who aren't in lockstep with your original OP, even when the flaws in your OP are pointed out to you repeatedly from different quarters.

You have your opinion and you're welcome to it. Just don't expect others to tolerate a drive-by slagging.

That's my last reply to this poster because IMHO, she's a troll looking for attention.

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


Don't worry Fitz i brought some good stuff today.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/84b16d7fc036.jpg[/atsimg]

Seeing as we're all wrapping up here, I'll post my final comments:

1. Suzque66 has concerns about the whole CHIP program, and has openly admitted a prejudice against the whole of worldwide Freemasonry. She suspects Freemasonry of "harvesting cells" and all manner of other nefarious activities related to the CHIP program.

2. Two Masonic participants in the program have stated that the organisation doesn't keep the data, nor does it keep the samples that are obtained via the program. Instead, these are retained by the parents who voluntarily engage in the program of their own volition.

3. Various arguments have been put forward for and against the effectiveness of the program, but these seem to me to be peripheral to the premise of the entire thread, which is that Freemasons are running the program for unethical reasons.

4. No evidence whatsoever has been presented to support Suzque66's suspicions but, rather, 16 or so pages of conjecture, theory, hypothesis, ad hominem arguments, and insults.

5. My conclusion is that this has all been a ridiculous waste of effort and that, given that this entire program is voluntary and free, the only thing Freemasonry can be accused of is providing a free service to parents who wish to retain data on their children, for whatever purpose.

I'm done.

Thanks to the mods for attempting to regulate this thread to the best of their ability.

I'd like to re-iterate number 2 as well Roark.

The onle people that recieve any of the CHIP info are the PARENTS of child X. Absolutely no information is stored. It's handed over to the parents of child X on the spot.

Now that we've all repeated that about 100 times I think I'm gonna call it quits with this thread.