I mean this quite seriously

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
To Christian's, Catholics are wrong.

Catholics ARE Christians.

lol thanks for correcting me. My whole life I always thought they were at battle with each other. Forgive me if I offended. I'm so uninformed about these types of things I just thought they hated each other.

Originally posted by TurkeyBurgers
reply to post by Boogley

 

It is up to debate since it decides what happens to people of other beliefs. It is a HUGE part of government and it needs to NOT BE! RIGHT NOW we have a HUGE DEBATE about gay people being able to get married AND IT BASED SOLELY ON RELIGION! There are no Atheist groups protesting gay marriage that I have ever heard of. The religious right SURE AS HELL likes to tell them what they can and cannot do. THAT is why it is SO ULTRA important to talk about religion!

You're correct about this but I'll be blatantly honest with you, I'm pretty sure that religion is a cover for the whole debate. There is much more that goes along with gay marriage than religion, like certain taxes etc. I think it's more of that but -personally- I really don't care, I think it should be something left up to the state to decide. But *my* post was about debating the personal decision of religion, believing in a God or not. It's never up for debate, it's personal, get it? I don't think religion should be applied in laws, I believe in separation of church and state, but I don't get to make that decision you know?

reply to post by ExPostFacto


Fundamentalist protestants can't stand the Catholic Church.
They claim it's not Christian but they are wrong.

So you are right, there is a war. But it's within the Christian community.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Catholics are not Christian. I'm not trying to pick at your post, I liked it, but that's not true. I've never met a Christian in my life that followed the pope and I'm in the Bible belt. In fact, strict (or "Independent") Christians believe there are prophecies about the church state in revelations, relating it to the woman spoke of riding the beast. Uhh.. rev chapter 17 I think it is. Anyway, that's all lol.

reply to post by Boogley


I see. I COMPLETELY agree with you then. EVERYONE should be able to make a personal choice about religion. Agree 100%.

Originally posted by DaMod
reply to post by N3krostatic

 

But who are we to define god? Would god cease because our definition is wrong? I think it is not up to us to define god.

Maybe God would, maybe God wouldn't. Either way I agree with you in as much as we simply cannot understand or explain what one considers God.

Maybe God would cease to be not because we incorrectly defined him, but because the entire concept of God is not what we define, but is something we cannot define in any way because the idealized existence of what one considers God is created by definition only or created by man because of lack of definition and understanding. Sounds rather circular but just speculating.

Originally posted by Boogley
reply to post by stereovoyaged

 

Since when is a personal choice such as religion up for debate by someone other than the person that believes or follows it. I understand why people would research it and build up evidence for or against it but you have to understand something about religion .. it's a BELIEF. That means that whoever follows it, blindly or not, believes in it. It's accepted as real in their mind. Who are you to argue it with someone like me? Is it really that bad to have good beliefs? So what if it all seems like fables - I don't steal, kill or cheat, so why question me about it?

You might not steal, kill, plunder and rape in the name of God but there are those who do and they are many. Should we just allow them to continue on in their religious murder because they have the right to believe that way? In taking a stance for responsibility these things have to be answered for regardless of personal religious beliefs. What you consider good might not always be so from another perspective of religion or general logic regardless of how adamant your beliefs have been setup.

reply to post by Boogley


I think if there were ever a time where religion was really personal and in no way inflicted itself upon others beliefs and actions or looked to create a following, then yes go ahead, go crazy and believe what you want. But that is not the case for most religions. As long as there is some religion damning me for my beliefs or trying to constantly convert me by spewing their uninformed beliefs and ideas I stand my ground.

reply to post by N3krostatic


I agree with you that nobody should ever be persecuted in the name of religion. I know that there are people that do that but it should be a dead give away, as I've always said "Thou shalt not kill" was not a polite suggestion. At least .. sigh that's how I see it. There are different arguments that come from that but none the less, I think one of my least favorite parts of history is reading where certain Christians persecuted others, it makes me sick to my stomach really. But that's always going to happen when there are large numbers of followers of certain things. You're going to have the true followers and the people who do bad things in the name of it and claim to be a follower. It's a shame, really.

Perhaps everyone should ask themselves a question, "Why do I believe what I believe?"

Instead of arguing over the beliefs people may finally understand how the Indoctrination Process works from our very early childhood.

As I like to say, just because there is belief in a thing does not make that thing real.

reply to post by stereovoyaged

Many people believe than the only purpose of human life is to meet God.

Personally, this sounds right to me.

There was a pretty famous holyman in the latter part of the 19th century who said something like the following -

God is closer to you than your own blood !

As human beings I believe we all have, by birthright, the capability of meeting God - on our own terms. We people have the 'instrumentation package' which makes this possible.

For those of us who do make the 'connection' communicating that experience to others in its fullness just isn't possible.

A related issue is the fact that this 'religious experience' is not a rational one ...

Governments and other 'centers of authority' take great advantage of this fact with their propaganda ...

When viewed from the standpoint of 'divide and conquer' the fact that religion is one of the major reasons groups of people destroy and sabatoge one another begins to make a great deal of sense.

These discussions are always such fun!!

I agree that there are many many things about christianity, because of the bible mostly, that just don't add up. Yeah those things could have happened. Anything is possible I believe. But it comes from a BOOK. Written by PEOPLE. It always goes back to the same thing again and again. History was written by the winners. And that can also include spiritual history as well.

You can argue for or against belief till your blue in the face, but a hell of a lot of energy (and lives and money) would be saved if we could just look each other in the eye and simply say "You know what? I DON'T KNOW"

But where is the fun in that

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by DaMod

 

I don't think he is bashing god. He is saying there is logic applied to the religion practices that do not hold consistent with our current knowledge. Very different than bashing.

Thank you! I believe I started this thread by saying that I wasn't trying to offend anyone

Anyhoo, I'm don't follow any particular faith, but I am curious...do you single out Christianity because it's the only line of faith teachings that you know of, or have been exposed to? Because if you think parts of Christianity is silly or weird, look into some of the gestation of Eastern religious traditions. That stuff's out there.

I admit, I have been much more exposed to christianity than any other major religion. Grew up in that church, know those stories, etc. I am currently studying many different religions as to better my knowledge of the world and be able to contribute more to good convo's.

Since when is a personal choice such as religion up for debate by someone other than the person that believes or follows it.

When it affect govt decisions, medical treatment, schooling, music, media, etc. I don't care what you believe, but when a person in power, or a special interest group tries to add or take away something from MY LIFE, then, its up for debate.

If someone doesnt' like gay marriage, don't go the weddings, if someone doesnt like cursing in music, turn off the radio, if someone doens't agree with stem cells research, blood transfusions and the like, then rot away in a hospital bed. But DO NOT try and take it away from the people who are not opposed to it. HOW %@*&^ DARE THEY tell me whats tastefull or not. HOW DARE THEY invade another country in the name of God. See my point??

Originally posted by stereovoyaged

Originally posted by ExPostFacto
reply to post by DaMod

 

I don't think he is bashing god. He is saying there is logic applied to the religion practices that do not hold consistent with our current knowledge. Very different than bashing.

Thank you! I believe I started this thread by saying that I wasn't trying to offend anyone

What a load of crap!

Your not trying to offend anyone?

"signature
Revelation, Revelution, I see through your Christ Illusion."

Yeah mate I believe you have no agenda starting this thread ....

Its common knowledge you start any religious based thread, no hang on a minute I got that wrong, I mean Christianity based thread and your gonna get heaps of hits, stars, whatever. People just love to join in the convo, bash the Bible, bash God, talk about how naive and stupid Christians are, etc.

Then you get a couple of people who believe the Bible, read the Bible bashing, God bashing, Christian bashing comments, reply in their own defense and the flood gates of this repeated, overdone and highly unimaginable debate start all over again, as they have done on these boards for as long as I've been a member.

You see through my Christ illusion? I see through your "I wasn't trying to offend anyone" illusion.

Cheers.

reply to post by Burginthorn


What I am trying to say here "mate" is that I am confused to how someone could believe something so blindly, so passionately without looking at it logically. If you can't admit that someone living in a whales stomach, underwater for a few days is silly, then...........I dont know what else I can say to you.

I never once thrashed anyone, merely asked them to look at what they believe in a logical light for one minute. I have done it myself and found it very rewarding spiritually. Am I a man of "God", No. Am I a strict atheist, NO. My point is this world doesnt' need anymore radical, illogical, ancient, backwards, holier than thou BS, we need to start doing whats right for this planet, its people and the ones to come after us.

One cannot deny one’s own existence..

Even if you’re just a brain in a vat, your own existence can be verified simply by the fact that you perceive , you see, hear, smell, taste and touch things.
But even if you doubt your own existence, you must exist, for it is impossible for a non-existent thing to doubt anything. The very act of doubting proves that you Exist!
Denying your own existence is a contradiction in terms. I can deny yours and you can deny mine, but I can’t doubt mine, nor can you doubt yours.

It is possible for you to be deceived in your perception. In fact, it’s conceivable that every one of your perceptions is a dellusion. But, even if that is the case, even if nothing you think exists actually exists, you still must exist.
Proving, the existence of a being , that not only does exist but must exist.
There are two things I know with absolute, 100 percent certainty: You exist, and a higher beign exists.

Originally posted by stereovoyaged
Just saying people, look at this with an objective mind and be more rational.

If you really want to understand and know the truth, don't use your mind at all. Stop thinking and bring your mind to stillness.

Then you will see clearly for the first time.

I don't care about the religion itself but what people have used it for has only thickened that already very thick border people use to make themselves seem more superior. Segregation between those with different beliefs is very big and slowly killing our society. Watch things dive back into "you can't do this because you're not [insert religion here]" I see it everyday in high school, it is very serious.


[edit on 5/18/09 by MoothyKnight]