Welfare Extensive Overhaul NEEDED!!

Ok, I looked through the threads but did not see anything to the extent of what I am about to go into.

Welfare assistance needs to be overhauled on every level.

1) Why isn't mandatory drug testing in place?
2) If it were in place it would also tie in that it would assist the abused children of drug abusers (a majority of abuse cases being lower poverty level children) being assisted at a much earlier timeframe and giving assistance to the abusers for drug rehab and family therapy). Requiring mandatory drug assistance and family counseling as well as child care protective services to be involved.
3) Limit the time for welfare assistance to include and require **training classes for a person on welfare who must pass those classes and either find a job on their own or be given a job found by unemployment services. If they are unable to find a position within a certain time frame, have a government co-op of jobs to be utilized by this available personnel. There are things that need to be done at every level of the government but more importantly, give them priority to government positions that come available but require that they pass the job requirements skills. Give them monthly evaluations for up to a year to show their job skill progression.

4) The (re)training would consist of general learning skills that they are deficient in such as reading, writing,etc. Have it in place that they must pass the classes or be tested for mental deficiencies and then be given assistance accordingly. If they have an IQ of 80 they are low level functioning so they probably won't get a secretarial job. Give them a trainable skill they like - gardening (translation - lawncare), animal care if proven trainable and dependable. Unsure of what would be the solution for non-functioning... I guess that then falls to disability category. That is another thread altogether.
5) Require family counseling and finance training (i.e. - learn to balance a checkbook) for all welfare recipients.

6) Have a limit of time between assistance or have steps in place to verify reasons for welfare again in such a short time. Hoops must be jumped for assistance again after retraining.

Well, that is my beginning thoughts. Anyone have more thoughts? I post regularly on Whitehouse.gov for this as well as with my legislative representatives and would like a well-rounded and more fleshed out detail of overhaul.

Thanks!

[edit on 6-5-2009 by mhinsey]

mhinsey, your ideas are workable, sane, fair and reeks of commom-sense.

And that is precisely why the government will never implement them.



[edit on 6/5/09 by MajesticJax]

Clintion tried this, with limited success. I think it's a great idea, but what it does is create bigger government, with another layer of beauacry to wade through.
I know, from first hand experience how mush the welfare programs are costing us on a state and federal level, and the figures ain't pretty.
If such a program is instigated, the ALCU will be all over it before the ink is dry.
And it will never be passed because welfare recepients vote, and those are constituents they are afraid to lose.

the sad part is the welfare constituents are the ones too lazy to get a job much less show up at the voting place.

Also, if it were done in increments then it would not be noticed as much. Notice how the privacy acts were implemented in slow degrees so no one would REALLY get upset until it was over and done.

It does create that, however, if the right computer program was set up so that literally checks and balances were done, then notification of whatever would just be a report on a daily basis so that joe schmoe would receive email notification, telephone notification, paper notification, etc. on what steps are necessary. If they are medically incompetent (ie recovering drug addicts in therapy) then their representative would be utilized.

For that matter, use the people on welfare to work the programs after initial setup by outside source. Use temporary force until first training classes "graduate". Assuming they have the intelligence to learn rote and computer training.

Also utilize high school and college students for the workforce. There would have to be a (again) checks and balances on the ratio of student to welfare probably to really make this work. *This would tie in with "free college" for up to 4 years that Obama is pushing also that is talking about mandating volunteer requirements for that "free" education.

(Which is fine for me. I don't need free but volunteering in free time for an education is an awesome way to get through school without a larg debt - which I currently have).

reply to post by MajesticJax


Well, Obama is supposedly all about change. All I am out is time if I send in my thoughts broken down into sections describing details of the switchover.

This has been on my thoughts for a long time and Obama coming in just fueled it. Maybe some of it can be implemented. Hope is eternal even if craziness prevails.

The drug-testing idea has been floated by some states but it's always shot down because it allegedly mucks with peoples privacy.

Government employees have to get tested. If you're on welfare you're getting a government check (funded by property extorted from me). Doesnt that make you a government employee?

For the sake of consistency they would have to do away with testing for all government employees or permit testing of welfare recipients.

I'd rather we do away with the whole thing entirely.

I was raised on welfare till i was 14. My mom never looked for a job, and all tasks were such an inconvinience to her. Just my two cents, but from my personal experience welfare perpetuates laziness.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I agree with you about it going away. But that is NEVER going away so the alternative is to actually make it work.

As to getting into people's privacy, well tough. It became public notice the moment you took my tax money and you went and bought smack with it instead of baby formula. I know they get cards, but they trade that for actual cash and there are ways around it.

Not to mention, once a child is involved (parents are on welfare) then the child's needs must be verified as taken care of. If you are at poverty level, then probably not being met. So, that causes a chain of events. Parents are checked by DHS, test positive for drugs, choices - lose welfare, lose baby, etc. or choose medical assistance (drug rehab) and child temporary removed from your care to live with a family member or alternative measures. It would be a multiple department issue.

As to privacy, that could be handled by code numbers instead of SS# and no actual name reference except at highest levels. All is bases on that code for that person. It could all be basically computerized also. Banks do it so can the government. It is time it was dragged pushed pulled into the current century darnit!!

reply to post by heyo


That is my point. To retrain that mentality your Mom had and was possibly raised to believe. You broke the mold. You understand that difference and you are blessed for it. Despite the norm to be raised welfare, live welfare and die welfare - YOU went a different route.

That is awesome!!! You understand it is for assistance not subsistance.

hehe well number 5 need's to be more far reaching... You HAVE to include BANKERS, CONGRESSMEN and PRESIDENTS in it too! They seem to have the biggest problem balancing checkbooks.

I agree that we need to totally change the way we think about these things, although personally i am of the opinion that far to large an emphasis is placed on making people 'manually productive' at a detriment to the health, mindfulness and overall greatness of humanity. On paper it may seem important to have the largest possible growth and production but in fact this is a nonsense of what we all know to be true in our day to day lives, we are super complex bio-mechanical machines with highly complex brains living in a ridiculously complex world... We need to take time to understand ourselves and our place in the world around us, to learn how to use and maintain our bodies, minds and souls.

Too many of the problems in the world are caused by people simply being out of touch with the world, getting caught up in situations and being unable to think clearly or quiet simply by stupid people. If society is ever going to work then people are going to have to slow down and take some deep breaths, at the moment it's already like being on a treadmill since the day your born and having to jump through hoops - we need to build a rest area or an off button so people can catch their breath and take stock of the situation before carrying on.

When you leave school suddenly you have to start running real fast, you need a job to pay for a car then a flat or a house, which means gas electric and phone bills plus water rates, council tax, your car now needs new tires, an mot, petrol, plus the food shopping and the TV, etc, etc, etc in a constant loop ad nausium.... If somehow we could create a way that meant it was possible to step back for a bit without it throwing you from the train - then people would be able to gather themselves together and take control of their lives.

Maybe if instead of paying cash money taxes you could donate your time to a project you're skilled at, enjoy or are at least able to do then the country would still be able to remain solvent while providing services and people wouldn't be so compelled to spend so much time at work. The government could (if it were as solvent as say china) pay for people doing such work with coupons, etc which can be redeemed against vital utility bills, etc -in exchange the government will use the workforce to maintain, build and research the utility infrastructure, so everybody wins (or comes out even at least)

The people after signing up have a number of hours they must work, for certain skilled jobs maybe they are paid more than an hour per hour but in general most people work about the same -they then log onto the gov website and book when and where they're going to do their hours that month, maybe with the ability to do more hours and build up a reserve should u want to go travel or take a few months off (i would work all winter and laze all summer myself) - this would give people the time to work on their own projects, learn new things and hopefully develop as people.

The basics sorted out people could choose to live cheep or to do some extra work in the private sector to earn money for spending, hopefully the people having bettered themselves would perform much better at work and the world would run more smoothly...

Of course not everyone could, should or would want to be part of this - many people would work hard in a certain field to pay the cash money tax just as they do today.

reply to post by mhinsey

the sad part is the welfare constituents are the ones too lazy to get a job much less show up at the voting place.

Stereotyping

Here recently, I have some good friends who have lost their jobs and have had to turn to welfare for assistance. Asking for assistance is humiliating enough for them. I don't think they need to be further humiliated with some drug test.

I also feel that if you are going to test one then test them all. That means that anybody asking for any type of government assistance (school loans, home loans etc..) should be tested.

I believe that instead of overhauling the welfare system, they should overhaul the education system. It is a broken down education system that are causing many to become dependent on welfare.

Originally posted by NatureBoy
hehe well number 5 need's to be more far reaching... You HAVE to include BANKERS, CONGRESSMEN and PRESIDENTS in it too! They seem to have the biggest problem balancing checkbooks.

Amen to THAT!!!

It should be a school requirement that a child learn to handle banking and general living budgeting. I REALLY wish that had been done for me. I am still learning and I am almost 40.

reply to post by mhinsey



Yeah well i moved in with my dad when i was 14 (they divorced when i was 9). He's......old school, ya might say. And a male nurse too, go figure.

It's almost like the existence of welfare fools people into a false sense of entitlement, which carries over into other aspects. Take tree planter's in my hometown of bc. they work the least amount to become eligable for unemployment insurance, then coast through the rest of the year. they tell me this as i take my work boots off....figuratively. I hold them and those like them in the same "contempt".

reply to post by jam321



Not stereotyping. There are valid persons needing it. My displeasure and distaste is with what I refer to as "welfare babies". They were born of welfare parents who raised that child his/her entire childhood living on welfare. That child, still not an adult, has a kid goes on welfare. That happens a good deal in my city. There are obviously people who need it. That is what the overhaul is needed for. So the money actually goes to the needy and not the greedy (and lazy).

As to the educational system, I agree. It has become too political in nature. So if they are going to politize it then by god, then do it right. Have a generalized subsidized "free 4-year degree" for each person.

To me, an educated person understands there is soo much more in life than just what is on the boob tube. They have more complex thoughts than where the next beer or hit is coming from.

My problem with welfare is that it is setup for the shady characters and the true persons really needing it cannot.

My own mother was told she was the wrong color when she asked for ONE MONTH of food stamps. [Yea I am white] She was told to quit her job and come back. God bless her, she went and got a THIRD job and took care of her kids. She is my idol. Not too proud to ask for help but not too humble as to do what needs to be done.

reply to post by jam321


Best of luck to your friends. I'm in the same boat, except I CAN'T get on welfare, because around here you basically have to have kids in order to qualify. Honestly, the anti-welfare crowd has obviously not be paying attention to the past 15 years of reform.

The bottom line is this: if you want to have a minimum wage, you have to have welfare. Minimum wage increases unemployment by artificially raising the price of labor. So, pick one:

1. Abolish Minimum Wage;
2. Have a large Welfare system.

At this point, I don't care which route we take.

Well, I was hoping for more insight to an overhaul program that goes into details. Has anyone thought of any aspects of this?

reply to post by jam321
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. If I lose my job and have to go on welfare, I will happily piss in a cup in order to get assistance for my family. But then, I don't do illegal drugs, and have prescriptions for every medication I am currently taking. I have nothing to hide.

So, to reiterate, please give any more details of your thoughts on how to overhaul the welfare, unemployment and social services and be as detailed as possible. I am going to submit this to whitehouse.gov.

As I have stated in the thread somewhere, hope is eternal but craziness reins. Can't hurt to submit a thought out plan with breakdown showing how the interaction would be handled between the departments (welfare, disability, social services) and an overhaul of the software to be utilized.

Man, my head is hurting thinking about this.

I guess this is something that is even more important now with the healthcare situation coming into play...

Any new thoughts?