Children,pigs and rats in swine flu

Hello, this is my first post... and i want to thanks ats and all the people who are part of this comunity... now... i am a mexican and i´ve been reading all of your post and found them very interesting, so i decide to investigate a little bit. At first, i thought that the swine flu were made up for economics reasons, because here in mexico everybody is wearing protection(breathing mask and latex gloves), and it is inminent that a lot of busines are being shut down (close), for at least a week, and with all the country paralized it is logical that it would afect it economicly, and you have to add the crisis in almost every field of the society that was very stong before of the first case of flu,meaning people scared of everthing, like the us goverment use to do with their own people, those were my arguments for a country that would go down and have to ask for favors, monitary favors(money). But i read some other post telling that it could be for the transplants of pig cells into humans with diabetes type I, so i remember some topics like those from several years ago and i found some pages talking about pig hearts into human, and in a bbc page i found that they were afraid of the viruses of pigs affecting human tissue BBC uk, and thats why i suppot this theory along with some other articles invlolving Diatranz and Imutran, this last one demanded in the uk for animal cruelty Imutran . I also found that the same investigation of the Valdes Gonzalez experiment it is been use in rats from japanese doctors... so that make me wonder why they have about five years of experimenting with mexican children what the japanese docotrs are doing with rats recentrly?... thanks for replying and sorry for bad gramma

[edit on 29-4-2009 by choche]

[edit on 29-4-2009 by choche]

Could you explain what has been done to the children in more detail or provide a link. This way I can know what you are talking about.

Also, what specifically are Japanese scientist doing with the rats, in your scenario. Japanese scientists do many things with rats, and so do the scientists of other nations.

I am interested in what you are saying, but I am missing the specifics.

of course, the children experiments were post in "El Universal" the link is in spanish so i hope you can understand it, and the creepy part of this is that the post is almost four years old El Universal article,it says about 12 children entering the experiment and how the xenotransplantation help them to use little less insuline and some of them help them to no use insulin for three months. The japanese is my mistake the scientist are chinese (hope you will no ofend with it) recent experiment is a link that i found trying to know something more about the valdes gonzalez children hospital, but you need to suscribe to read the entire article and i haven´t, i don´t have 150 dlls to suscribe, by the way the online magazine is the "Experimental Biology and Medicine" and the post of this experimets is from febrary of this year here is the link sertoli cells, i know i am mexican but i also know about the rotteness of my goverment and the ignorence of most of the people around me.... so i thank you for you reply and to be critical in my post

[edit on 29-4-2009 by choche]

I'm not Japanese, so I am not offended at all. I was interested in which particular experiments you were speaking of.

I will make a go at the article you posted, but my Spanish is rusty from lack of use.

By the way: It is my opinion that all governments are rotten and most people are ignorant to this.

I'll be back later after reading and digesting your links.

BTW.... There is no school in any level (from kinder garden to university) public and private, until the next may 6th in all the country(México)...people are encourage to stay in home... so i asume there will be a raising in the tv rating.... it is almost prohibited to eat in a restaurant(all the food order in a restaurant has to be delivery or drive trhu), so they are closing for lack of costumers and so on

[edit on 29-4-2009 by choche]

I think this is the article I posted that caught yourr attention.
Lack of Clinical Success, Rogue Transplanters, and Infectious Disease Risks

Much of the meeting yesterday focused on controversial research being conducted by the New Zealand-based company Diatranz, Ltd., which transplanted pig islet cells into 12 diabetic children in Mexico and plans to perform other human experiments in the Cook Islands. The company's genetically modified pigs have tested positive for three classes of porcine endogenous retroviruses (PERVs). Though Diatranz claims that its patients have remained free of infection after one year - not long in the life of a retrovirus - one patient was found to have pig DNA circulating in his/her blood, suggesting a potential infection.

Diatranz's experiments were condemned by the New Zealand Ministry of Health, which enacted a moratorium on clinical xeno trials last year and issued a "xenotransplantation research warning" in a media release on March 7th. The release stated that: studies on the benefits to Diatranz's patients were inadequate and did not counterbalance the risks of transferring animal viruses to humans. Moreover, jurisdictions like Mexico and the Cook Islands did not have the appropriate regulatory mechanisms in place to safeguard public health or monitor patients and their contacts for viruses on a long term basis.

I tried finding more info on the story but its all in medical sites that need subscriptions to enter.

Heres more on the topic animal to human transfer of viruses gue to thesexenotransplant.
Frequently asked questions about Xenotransplantation

What are the risks of xenotransplantation to the wider community?

Xenotransplantation carries some risks for the wider community. The major concern for public health is that xenotransplantation might transmit an infectious agent (such as a virus) from animals to humans. Retroviruses are the chief concern, because there are many examples of such viruses moving from one species to become infectious in another.

However, retroviruses do not always cause obvious signs of disease initially. If a retrovirus present in a xenotransplant were to infect the recipient of the transplant, it may spread to close contacts, carers and even the general population before it became obvious that an infection had occurred.

What viruses are we most concerned about in xenotransplantation?

Nonhuman primates (apes and monkeys) are not being considered as the source for animal-to-human transplants because their close relationship to humans increases the risk of a virus being transmitted across species.

The virus that is of most concern in xenotransplantation using pigs as the donor species is the porcine endogenous retrovirus (PERV). PERV is present in almost all strains of pigs and cannot be removed by raising pigs in sterile conditions. Although PERV is inactive, and therefore harmless, in pigs, there are concerns that transplantation into humans may activate the virus, creating a new human disease that could spread to those close to the transplant recipient and eventually to the wider community. PERV can infect human cells in the laboratory, suggesting that it could infect humans through xenotransplantation. However, studies of around 150 people worldwide who have been transplanted with pig tissue or had their blood pass through pig cells have shown no evidence of infection with a virus or any other infectious agent originating from pigs.

Approval of an animal-to-human trial would depend on there being an appropriate policy for testing the xenotransplant recipient and their close contacts for PERV and any other organisms that may emerge as a result of the transplant.

yes jba2848, i read the first one and that´s how i started to investigate a little bit more about the virus and xenotransplantation... i also found that some medical industrys were being sued in the years of 2000 and 2001, the article in the universal said that the children (14.3 years old as average) have been testing for 4 years and was posted in 2005, that means while companies like imutran have been sued for experimenting with animals, the mexican goverment along with US and The National Bioethics Committee in the Uk according to the universal article, gave the green light to experiment with humans (there are diferences in the type of the experiment but they are still experiments of the same kind).... there is a link that is a little of a problem to me because i don´t dominate english and there is a lot of info(it has some realy good quotes made by some virologist), and it talks more about this problematic (i believe is some years old, but it means sense now)xenotranplantation

reply to post by choche


Dr. David White

Dr. David White joined The John P. Robarts Research Institute from the biotechnology company, Imutran, in Cambridge, England, where he was Director of Research. Dr. White is a Fellow of the Royal College of Pathologists and has a PhD from the University of Cambridge.

This guy colaberated with Rafael Valdés on the human pig transplants in mexico and is also the guy they talk about in the diaries of dispair where he did experiments in UK for the company Imutran Ltd.
diaries of dispair

Skepticism surrounds diabetes xenograft experiment

Ethically, such an experiment cannot be balanced by control data. For example, it is not possible to remove the device and show that diabetes returns. For this reason the community is pressuring the group to test the approach in non-human primates, dog or rabbit. Valdes has agreed, but has also begun trials in a further 24 patients.

So after the first 12 children he decided to do 24 more in 2002.

Welcome to ATS Choche, glad you can join us.

Very intriguing theory and thanks for the firsthand report.

My question to you, is there really a cover up of the number of people infected and dead or is it exactly as how the media is portraying it?

I found an article here where Diatranz a company from New Zealand who was refused the right to perform human pig transplants in New Zealand tried doing there experiments at Cook Island but at the last moment was banned do to US pressure on the government of Cook Island. THat was just befor they went to Mexico and teamed up with Rafael Valdés of the Children's Hospital of Mexico and accually performed the experiments on 12 children.Then I guess he followed that with 24 more pig to human experiments and is still goind transplants in Mexico today.

Gene hunters leave trail of bitterness in South Pacific

The book documents the episode in which the Cook Islands nearly became the site for the world's first transplantation of pig cells into living humans (xenotransplantation) as a cure for diabetes in 2002. Pacific Islanders in general suffer from very high rates of Type-2 diabetes, and some researchers claimed transplanting pancreas cells from pigs into diabetics offered a potential cure. The New Zealand government had banned such xenotransplants as too risky in 2001.

Had the experiments gone forward, the US might have branded the Cook Islands and its 14,000 inhabitants a "rogue nation," writes Cook Islands’ Traditional Chief Te Tika Mataiapo - Dorice Reid. Panicked US government health officials threatened to bar admission into the US of anyone from the islands as potential carriers of dangerous retroviruses from the pig cells.

After initially agreeing to the xenotransplants in 2002, the Cook Islands’ government reversed its decision after protests from tribal leaders like Reid and the world medical community.

hi worldwatcher, thanks for the reply.... but now, i think i have a dificult question, first, it is impossible to me to really know if the numbers of dead are covered or are truth because i don´t have contact with people who can told me that info and because i am from Monterrey, a city located in the northeast part of Mexico i´m closer to the US thru texas than the capital Mexico City, so i have no idea, but i can tell from a source in an hospital that i can´t tell the name.... that people with syntoms of any kind of flu are tested and those test are being send to canada(i don´t have the name of the organitation that are send it to), i only know that the results of that test will come in two days after they were send with the confirmation of regular flu or swine flu.... i will stay investigation from that matter... but i have to say that april is the last month that has the majority of cases of flu in the north hemisfere (flu season october to april) and there are between 10 000 to 40 000 thousends of dead only in the US, and if i can find the article from december of 2008 i believe i read about the worst season of flu in the US in many years (i need to prove this last comment) i hope you can imagine the result of fatalitys in a third world country as mine (Mexico)....... i don´t mean to get out from my last comments but like my first post said i´m between conspiracy of a false disease using the swine flu as a dictraction and the fact that is real and come from experimentation..... of course the second one has more proven theory and info to check out

[edit on 30-4-2009 by choche]

12 infants with Type 1 diabetes were given cell transplants from the pancreas and testicles of unborn piglets in the hopes that, being immature introductions, the organs of the children would not reject them; instead, allowing the natural insulin production and immune system fortification of the host.
This process utilized pig fetus cells from a company in New Zealand and was performed according to the laws of Mexico, the Us and International Biological Security of England.
This was a first in the entire world where human cells were interlaced with those of pigs.
Results were that 6 of the infants had their doses of insulin reduced, two of them stopped completely and none of them had any complications nor sidereal illnesses whatsoever from the cellular transplants. These results were obtained about two months after the transplants.
All of this was in a report dated November 17, 2005, with only one paragraph of results being posted in the European Journal of Endocronology.


Please note that the above is a synopsis of the article. I found said article to be very vague. I did not translate nor include the describing of how and with what type of equipment the cells were transplanted; this being quite common in medical knowledge. There is also no mention in the article about the ages of the infants nor their familial sources.
Am not sure what to think of this. I did some research after reading this in hopes of any follow up at all, to absolutely no avail.
I find this a little frightening in lieu of the current situation.

Peace...