Turkey hopes to buy S-400 air defense systems from Russia

ISTANBUL, April 27 (RIA Novosti) - Turkey, a NATO member, has expressed interest in buying S-400 Triumf air defense systems from Russia, a Russian defense industry official said on Monday.

"Turkey has expressed a strong interest in buying S-400 air defense systems from Russia," said Anatoly Aksenov, a senior adviser to the general director of Russian arms export monopoly Rosoboronexport.

Russia is exhibiting over 120 types of weaponry at the IDEF 2009 arms show in Istanbul on April 27-30. The biennial exhibition has been organized by the Turkish defense industry since 1993.

- I see this news very interresting - Why not Patriots - why great arm deals with Russians? --- A Nato member... Is it related to this?

Turkish army unhappy over drill with Syria
( They change the old headline! : "Barak disturbed by Syria-Turkey drill" )
www.jpost.com...

Hmm, very interesting...

It's like Syria buying American weapons right??

Very weird, yet why would you give millions of dollars to a country everyone is betting on failing when you can purchase from one that's booming?

And I thought your first quote in your sig was Rahm Emanual and I about fell out of my chair!

The MIM-104 Patriot is a surface-to-air missile (SAM) system, the primary of its kind used by the United States Army and several allied nations. It is manufactured by the Raytheon Company of the United States. The Patriot System replaced the Nike Hercules system as the U.S. Army's primary High to Medium Air Defense (HIMAD) platform, and replaced the MIM-23 Hawk system as the U.S. Army's medium tactical air defense platform. In addition to these roles, Patriot has assumed the role as the U.S. Army's anti-ballistic missile (ABM) platform, which today is Patriot's primary mission.
en.wikipedia.org...



Russian sources have claimed the S-400 is capable of detecting and engaging targets out to a range of 400 km (250 miles), including aircraft, cruise missiles, and ballistic missiles, including those with a range of 3,500 km and a speed of 4.5 km/s. It has also been claimed that the S-400 is capable of detecting and engaging stealth aircraft.
en.wikipedia.org...

Russian claims, legendary. Israel showed what a skillful and resource rich military can do to such systems when it raided Syria unchallenged and destroyed its would be reactor. Things have progressed, claimed specifications make for nice selling points. However if its networks, even closed ones, are vulnerable to standoff infiltration then it's just another target on the ground. Furthermore, Russia is not going to sell Turkey an S-400 unit, the profit to risk ratio of such a sale is out of whack.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by WestPoint23]

And Turkey is doing military drills with Syria. And Turkey was hit on the head by the EU because they try to stop the election of the new NATO commander. And Turkey is angry at the EU because the EU is not admitting them...

IMO Turkey is giving signs that they will turn to the SCO and forget NATO....

NATO without Turkey is a big deal.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by Vitchilo]

I give Turkey about 10-15 years and it will be the next target for U.S. intervention, they have been rocking the boat for over 5 years now, creating various problems with its neighbors not to mention what their views and opinion are of Nations like Germany and France who hold the final word on who enters and who does not within the E.U. elite.
Either way they did remain neutral in during ww2 up until the Axis empire was almost crushed then they decided to join the Allied forces. As history has shown us. the U.S. never forget.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Israel showed what a skillful and resource rich military can do to such systems when it raided Syria unchallenged and destroyed its would be reactor.

Some sources indicate that many Syrian SAM sites were not operational, and those defenses that were operational were not spread out effectively, thereby allowing Israel to simply fly out of range of Syrian SAMs.

Fact is, no one really knows what the state of Syrian defenses were at the time. Thus you cannot make a conclusion about the effectiveness of the Russian SAM systems. And Israel still appears very concerned about the fact that Syria and Iran are looking to acquire S-400. Why the level of concern if the systems pose no threat to Israeli airforce incursions?

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Things have progressed, claimed specifications make for nice selling points. However if its networks, even closed ones, are vulnerable to standoff infiltration then it's just another target on the ground.

That is all true. This is the reason why Russian air defense never relies on just one system, but several different SAM systems, each providing a different level of protection from different threats. Syrian, Iranian, and Turkish air defenses will never be as developed as those Russia has domestically.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Furthermore, Russia is not going to sell Turkey an S-400 unit, the profit to risk ratio of such a sale is out of whack.

Well if depends on what political concessions it can get from Turkey. Turkey has a lot to offer to Russia in this sense, and I don't see why such sale is not possible. Perhaps the S-400 will be dumbed down somewhat for export.

reply to post by WestPoint23


and as has been proven by amoungst others , planeman , the IAF flew through an area with 0 SAM cover.

as for the `so called` reactor.

the IAEA has said nothing of the sort and they went there.

so the only claim was the terrorist action by israel.

Originally posted by tristar
Either way they did remain neutral in during ww2 up until the Axis empire was almost crushed then they decided to join the Allied forces. As history has shown us. the U.S. never forget.

I thought that the US remained neutral for the first couple of years of WW2 whilst Britain and the Commonwealth held back the tide of facism.

Cheers

The title of this thread says it all:

"Turkey hopes"

They may hope but i am sure Russia does not want to export the S-400 yet untill all S-300 regiments are replaced.
The S-300 system would be better for Turkey to buy. Especialy the more advanced versions.

Aside the S-400/300 deal, Turkey also plans (hopes) to buy MI-28 helo's and to buy the Kornet-E ATGM platform.

The MI-28 deal will not bare fruit due to Russia not having enough "used" vanilla MI-28's and Turkey is better of with MI-35's or European attack helo's.

On the other hand, the Kornet-E deal is very plausible due to good performance off the ATGM system.

All in all these purchases/deals are meant to aid Turkey in their modernisation program that begun in the 90's and will end in 2020's.


I wish them good luck with all of that.

Well I guess Turkey is looking for something far more effective than that piece of junk called the Patriot.

reply to post by Harlequin


au contraire. The IAEA actually found significant traces of Uranium deemed uncharacteristic of any possible plant on Israels part. I'm sure you'll insist that Israel bombed the random place out of pure unguided "teroristic" aggression. Just amazing how they managed to bomb just one place with proven uranium traces huh, risking their own planes and pilots in process..

IAEA Findings

[edit on 6-5-2009 by theblunttruth]

Turkey has been a long time ally of the US, Turkey was in fact the first country to offer help after 9/11.

Turkey only entering late in WW2 is something completely different. Turkey was not in any good condition then. Turkey still being exhausted from basically a very long history of constant warfare and losses.

Originally posted by tomcat ha
Turkey has been a long time ally of the US, Turkey was in fact the first country to offer help after 9/11.

Turkey only entering late in WW2 is something completely different. Turkey was not in any good condition then. Turkey still being exhausted from basically a very long history of constant warfare and losses.

There were 2 factions in Turkey at the time, one who wanted to side with the Germans and another which wished to remain neutral. You are correct that at the time the Turkish Army was unprepared for military operations primarily against the Soviet Union mainly due to their lack of mechanization. That being said if the German Armies had reached areas close to the Turkish border near the Caucasus, Turkey would almost certainly have invaded and would have garrisoned the Causcasus freeing the bulk of German Armies to move North up the Volga and East to Astrakhan on the Caspian Sea blocking Allied Lend Lease from Iran.

There was an interesting study I read about this situation where British troops may have moved against the Turks if this had happened actually fighting on Soviet soil. But that is alot of supposition. It makles you wonder though.

Originally posted by rogue1
Well I guess Turkey is looking for something far more effective than that piece of junk called the Patriot.

Russia always exaggerates their capabilities, and the U.S. always downplays their own.

Until the S-400 has seen combat it's just a bunch of "it could" and "it should."

Originally posted by TheEndofEvolution

Russia always exaggerates their capabilities, and the U.S. always downplays their own.

Until the S-400 has seen combat it's just a bunch of "it could" and "it should."

Actually the US also claims quite often their systems are more effective than they actually are. The patriot being the prime example. THe S-400 is a better system than the patriot, simple as that.

[edit on 7-5-2009 by rogue1]

reply to post by theblunttruth


lets play this game of yours:

stressing an IAEA investigation of Syria remained inconclusive

and

"We are sure it is man-made graphite but not yet sure if it has specifications of nuclear-grade graphite," he said

and

He also urged Israel and other states to share information to help the IAEA in its probe including satellite imagery and agree to let inspectors share this information with Syria

all quotes from your link - the IAEA haven`t found anything or rather haven`t said anything about what they have found.

israel haven`t said anything to the IAEA except that they attacked another country in an act of state sponsored terrorism.

i will have to agree with rogue here -

A 10 month investigation by the House Government Operations subcommittee on Legislation and National Security concluded that there was little evidence to prove that the Patriot hit more than a few Scuds. Testimony before the House Committee on Government Operations by Professor Theodore Postol (a professor of Science, technology and National Security Policy at M.I.T.) On April 7, 1992 and reports written by professor Postol raised serious doubts about the Patriot's performance. After examining video evidence of the Patriot's performance in Israel during the Gulf War and conducting his own tests, professor Postol claimed that the Patriot had a very low success rate.

"The results of these studies are disturbing. They suggest that the Patriot's intercept rate during the Gulf War was very low. The evidence from these preliminary studies indicates that Patriot's intercept rate could be much lower than ten percent, possibly even zero." (Statement of Theodore A. Postol before the U.S. House Of Representatives Committee on Government Operations, April 7, 1992)

www.cdi.org...


of recent evidence - there is actually serioss doubt as to whether the patriot hit anything other than allied aircraft in GW1

Russian and Chinese air defense systems are useful for fighting the NWO.

Originally posted by rogue1
THe S-400 is a better system than the patriot, simple as that.

You know damn well such statements are pointless an certainly, not as "simple as that". Kinematic capabilities are designed with different missions in mind. The electronic systems are likely more advanced on the latest Patriot systems. And you should know that a very likely candidate for 'best SAM system in the world' is an AEGIS with an SM-2ER, soon to be SM-6 missile.