How did you decide which religion is correct?

reply to post by RubberBaron


Believe nothing on the faith of traditions,
even though they have been held in honor
for many generations and in diverse places.
Do not believe a thing because many people speak of it.
Do not believe on the faith of the sages of the past.
Do not believe what you yourself have imagined,
persuading yourself that a God inspires you.
Believe nothing on the sole authority of your masters and priests.
After examination, believe what you yourself have tested
and found to be reasonable, and conform your conduct thereto.

Believe nothing merely because you have been told it.
Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher.
But whatever, after due examination and analysis,
you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -
that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.

Buddha

reply to post by dominicus


Listen, man has been deceived for AGES by men claiming God has spoken to them and others following blindly, so the proof and therefore the only proof you claim you need (for you is great) doesn't wash with me, nor has it ultimately done so with HISTORY.

Forgive my blaspheming now, but the world is safer without men or women like you either in power, or tyring to convince others that YOUR proof is all they proof THEY need - which in this case includes me.

I do not deny a greater power as I've said, but while I clearly do not misconceive, I DO know this...

People who claim God speaks to them directly without proof are, and have always proven to be - ultimately dangerous in society, be it through their actinos or the actions of others claiming to be acting on their and their God's behalf. Period.

So you'll forgive me being a a lapsed Agnostic, if you will - and unashamedly so.

reply to post by dominicus


Thanks, that was a very illuminating reply, given my varied conversations with xtians I probably wouldn't see you rolling around a church floor on any given sunday.

I wrestled with my teacher for well over a year. He had to go ask College theologians for answers to some of my difficult questions.

What never ceases to amaze me though is the amount of people typically xtians, standing on soap boxes claiming god is here or there waving bibles at the world.

Just for a minute imagine that I am god, and somehow I manage to become separate from my creation and decided to communicate with them in order to resolve the problem.

Why oh why would I, the supreme intelligence the creator of all that there is make it difficult for anyone to understand me ?

This appears to be not only preposterous but absurd don't you think ?

You come across as an intelligent enough kinda dude and not religious in the traditional sense, I just can't quite fathom how the bibles of are any use to you.

Originally posted by dominicus
To know God, one must undergo the process of unknowing everything else. Difficult at first, but simple in the end.

....you know everything do you, since you flat out claim know God so well???

You argue my point for me (the 'dangerous' one). Well done.

[edit on 27/4/2009 by TailoredVagabond]

During my time in the Navy I had a lot of time to read. I read many books on religion and many religious texts and I came away leaning heavily towards being a panthionist. Many of the pagan beliefs made a lot of sense to me, however that does not mean that I discount everything else that all of the other religions had to offer. In my mind all religions are one religion, they all have the same aim and all attempt to worship or honour the divine in their own way. I think many of the belief systems grew from their surroundings and cultures. For examply Christianity would have made no sense to the chinese due to them having no cultural reference point. Therefore they came up with their own belief system with their own reference points. In that same way the jewish faith (which is really the original Christianity) would have been sensless had you taken it to North America (had north America been discovered). Each religion requires its own cultural reference point in order for it to work, but in the end they are all worshipping the divine within their own points of reference.
Now that we have a global village and the people of the world know about the cultures, religions and people of other countries I think that the Quakers have it about right.
The Quakers believe that all religions have something to offer and they have people from many different religious backgrounds within their group. You get Pagan Quakers, Christian Quakers, Jewish Quakers and even Muslim Quakers. If it wasn't for the fact that they had a firm pacifist belief system I would join them.

reply to post by Gawdzilla

So, why doesn't God heal amputees, then? Good people who lost limbs for reasons not their fault pray for them to be restored and God ignores them? It's almost as if he just isn't there.

Because in the grand scheme of things, we are here on this earth inhabiting these bodies(shells) for the blink of an eye. These bodies get beat up, worn out, old, wrinkled, and we eventually leave them behind. Not only that but God is also experiencing the amputees, the cancers, the dying. Losing limbs and sickness is part of the risk of being "here". Just like driving to work includes its risks as well.

IN reply to Tailoredvagabond:

Forgive my blaspheming now, but the world is safer without men or women like you either in power, or tyring to convince others that YOUR proof is all they proof THEY need - which in this case includes me.

Lol, that's fine. That's the last thing I would ever want is to be in power. Though its funny that Socrates himself said that the only kind of Government that would work would be the kind ran by spiritually awakened philosophers. (hey he said it)

I don't try to convince anything. If someone asks me, I tell them I experience God daily. If they want to know more then o.k. I read about Jesus experiencing God, followed his footsteps, and now I do to. That is always there for those who want that.

You obviously dont. Thats fine. I still love you and know that inherently behind the masks, the real you is awesome!!!!! I dislike wars, religious arguing, and big egos. Catch me in the country somewhere meditating under a tree. If you want to say hi, be my guest. And if you want to experience God, you can too. Its there for everyone.

People who claim God speaks to them directly without proof are, and have always proven to be - ultimately dangerous in society, be it through their actinos or the actions of others claiming to be acting on their and their God's behalf. Period.

Yes this is part of the "worldly system." Someone who speaks truth about God, Love, Peace, must always be destroyed. Did it to Jesus, did it to Ghandi, did to buddhist monks, mystics, etc. The "world" does not want to hear about God, its busy being selfish, screwing everything with 2 legs, drinking, doing drugs, fighting over power/money, and being religious(which also has all of the aforementioned things within it as well).

I agree religion is crap, but the truth that's hidden in religion is AWESOME!!!!

So you'll forgive me being a a lapsed Agnostic, if you will - and unashamedly so.

Hey man, I accept you totally for who you are, and love you unbiasedly. So forgive me for my statement that "I experience God daily," for that is pretty much my only living reality. It's there for anyone if they dig deep enough.

....you know everything do you, since you flat out claim know God so well??? You argue my point for me (the 'dangerous' one). Well done.

Mr. Bond. Thing is you misunderstood me. To experience God, you have to do so without the use of limited faculties (mind is limited, personality is limited, and senses are limited) But there are higher faculties within us that most are unaware of.

What you take to be "me" proving "your point" was a "mind" misunderstanding. Take off all the masks and God is there. The ego is false. The mind thinks it is "I". Who is it that is aware when there are no thoughts? Its rather deep stuff, I wouldn't expect you to get unless you've studied these topics. If you do, that's even better. Just remember logic and reason is limited. Just like eyes can't see everything in the visual spectrum, and the ears can't hear all frequencies, and so on.... and yet God is all around you and in you, right under your nose, closer to you than your own breathing.

And no, I don't know everything, but can experience many things. God is one of them (or call him/her/it Infinity)
In reply to moocowman:

Why oh why would I, the supreme intelligence the creator of all that there is make it difficult for anyone to understand me ?

Its technically not that difficult. Its just that the eye cant see itself. The same "eye" that allows you to be aware of your mind, body, senses, is the same "eye" with which you can experience God. I know cryptic. Basically know yourself, who you really are, seek God and you will find. Closer than your own breathing.

Its "us" that make it so difficult to understand. So many limited faculties are in the way

You come across as an intelligent enough kinda dude and not religious in the traditional sense, I just can't quite fathom how the bibles of are any use to you.

Well the Bible has been useful to me because there are deeper transcendent things in there that only come to life and can be known after enlightenment. Before enlightenment, its just a bunch of words and concepts you wrestle with. After enlightenment, the New Testament "Breathes" transcendent knowledge. Then as you go deeper into Enlightenment and towards Union with God, then there is stuff in the Bible that if you told a "regular" church going Christian about, they would look at you perplexed and have no idea about.

Thats because it works in tiers. The deeper you go into higher spiritual faculties, the more mystical the Bible becomes and it guides you through these experiences. Secret knowledge so to speak. Of course it parallels what others have said in other paths. Also the gnostic gospels start making sense, like in gospel of Thomas Jesus is speaking about non-duality. Very deep matters.

I hear where you are coming from, a lot of Christians are obnoxious even to me. Some even saying I'm wrong. Yet when I ask them about the deeper mysterious of experiencing God, they have no clue except to spit out conceptual words. But the ones that are the closest to the truth and being like Jesus are the ones that Love unconditionally, don't judge others, don't bash others, don't act like everyone in the world does (though that doesnt mean they are perfect, we all still battle with vices vs. virtues) its an ongoing process. If you simply just Love others, that's the ultimate way to Be. Through Love, the mind is subdued and mastered(instead of ongoing random thoughts of the monkey mind syndrom), all the vices become controlled. You become master of self, instead of a slave to aspects you think you cant control.

Bible is like a bunch of transcendent pointers. You read it with the heart, not the mind. The mind is already biased, separating things, has opinions, thinks it is the "i", and a bunch of other blockages. Though it is used to understand things "intellectually, logically, and reasonably," its also used to allow certain things to penetrate the heart and open up the mystical realities that are waiting for you to see for yourself. Go within, see for yourself.

reply to post by dominicus


"Because in the grand scheme of things, we are here on this earth inhabiting these bodies(shells) for the blink of an eye. These bodies get beat up, worn out, old, wrinkled, and we eventually leave them behind. Not only that but God is also experiencing the amputees, the cancers, the dying. Losing limbs and sickness is part of the risk of being "here". Just like driving to work includes its risks as well."

If this were an intervention that would be called "justification".

Part of the risk, eh? So, your God is okay with working mothers loosing their feet to diabetes, getting sacked because they can't wait tables for 12 hours and day, dying because they have no medical insurance and their kids getting split up and shipped off to some foster home where they may or may not be treated like human beings? You WORSHIP this god?

Originally posted by CapsFan8
My religion says religion is a scam to control the masses.

absouloutly


sorry one liner or even a one worder ooops!!!

reply to post by MischeviousElf




there were many that worked with integraty too in a very positive light, strange what you interpretated what I wrote I was not refering to anything on the mass control side, to have your own releigion with intergraty you would not to try and control another!!!

Originally posted by Miraj
I decided that no one religion can be correct. From my time on this earth, I've observed one thing. As much as many would like to have you believe.. Nothing is ever black and white, and religion is never an exception.

I observe Deism to an extent, because I see no evidence of God acting in this world.

Not all religions have gods. In Taoism for example there is no such deity and afaik this applies to most schools of Buddhism too. One can be both an Atheist and a Taoist at the same time

p.s. I'm a pastafarian at heart

I think both Taoism and Buddhism give great insight to life thou.

[edit on 27-4-2009 by rhinoceros]

reply to post by dominicus


I appreciate your reply.

Whilst I don't necessarily agree with your belief system, I recognise that it is a personal belief system that is considered and well thought out and does not rely on religious dogma and creed.
It is refreshing and deserves much respect.

This tread is a great free spirited discussion. Problem is that for the overwhelming vast majority of people, their exploration is undertaken en masse, in some kind of religion. Most professed Christians don't own a bible, even fewer have actually read it.

There is, lets face it, little difference between the moral advices of religion and the sermon Jerry Springer delivers at the end of his show.

My advice, ignore religions and anyone who espouses any spiritual guidance. Make up your own mind.

reply to post by mithrawept


"My advice, ignore religions and anyone who espouses any spiritual guidance. Make up your own mind. "

Can I get an "amen", brothers and sister! The pious preacher who tells you what you should and shouldn't do on Sunday is just another human being. As for "spirit healers", etc., PULEEZE.

reply to post by mithrawept


Great post but I feel that most excellent line is missing something: "and allow others to do the same."

I dont believe any one religion is the the "right one," Everyone has different beliefs so that "right one" will be different for everyone. I personally dont really have one I consider to be the correct one. I like many different ones and my own personal beliefs are mixes of many.

I was brought up in catholic primary and secondary schools so i mainly base my beliefs in the what the bible teaches amongst other thing's allthough im NOT catholic and do not belong to a particular religion/group.

I believe in indulging in any information i can really and if i want to take anything from what i have learned then i do it is as simple as that to me,life is an experience and im here to make the best of it i personally can so i would not tie myself to any paticular tag and do not believe in going to a church to be able to pray to god or have a book read to me when i can do it in my own home or anywhere i please,i also dont really get on with the idea of a pope who thousands of people flock to see and scream at like a celebrity thats kind of my take on it anyway

I came to the conclusion that man was not to be trusted, history is defined by the people in power and religion wrote down by men.

Religion wasnt a logical choice for me, I quickly realised something was not right and questioned it.

i believe this topic was interesting when i was 20...but now its as fun as cancer...

and Taoism is the best...objectively speaking

reply to post by Gawdzilla

Part of the risk, eh? So, your God is okay with working mothers loosing their feet to diabetes, getting sacked because they can't wait tables for 12 hours and day, dying because they have no medical insurance and their kids getting split up and shipped off to some foster home where they may or may not be treated like human beings? You WORSHIP this god?

Well, you do understand that you having kids, they can end up being killers, drug addicts, child molesters right? ANd yet I bet you are willing to take the chance of having them anyway, thinking that you will raise them not be that way. Still there's that chance.

Hey I agree, it's F*%!ed up out there. Eventually this will all come to an end, and the emotional/physical suffering isn't forever. I'm not on a mission to justify it. Plus I'm not saying "my God" allows this to be so.

In a sense, all those suffering, is really God himself also suffering. Its like when you skinned your knee when you were a kid. It sucked at the time, but now you look back and laugh at how clumsy you were and learned from it, made you less clumsy, taught you to suffer with dignity, cause at least the crash was bad ace.

Or if you experience nonduality then all of that is illusion. There is only oneness and everything arising out of that oneness. No pain, no suffering, no murders. All just the Oneness playing with itself.

I have some health issues myself pretty much my whole life. I don't sit here and cry about, I move along. The world doesn't really give a crap, you die and it continues on. I can give you my own personal sob story and bloody beatings I got from my father but I really don't care about that. I know its part of being on a messed up planet. I know I'm not from here, that I'm just passing through, and eventually going to my real home.

Knowing that Im passing through, makes all the pains, troubles, issues really no big deal, since I know everyone's also passing through. But while Im here, I will personally try to make this place better, pick up some litter, hold the door open for some grandma, smile, give a hug, etc.

Oh, and experiencing nonduality directly, definitely puts things in perspective. Or on the other hand, I can take the negative view of all things and let my pessimism dictate my live, while I struggle along as a slave to it.

No thanks. Been there done that. In transcendence and nonduality ...there is just tons of compassion for all people and things. Empathy and love. Were it to happen to me (diabetes, feet cut off, lose kids to foster home, and end up homeless), then what can I say? I would still see past all that knowing its temporary and I'm just passing through. Nothing can affect me, no death, no amputations, no disease. I've gone beyond those things and have ultimate peace and love for everyone/everything.

This post is directed at whoever asked the original question (sorry I forgot your name already or really anyone else who is interested in talking to me. I do have a pretty strong knowledge of the Bible (I have gone to a Lutheran school since 3rd grade) but it is far from perfect. However, I would be glad to get in a discussion/debate with someone on this topic. I WILL NOT TRY TO WIN YOU OVER TO MY BELIEFS! I know that this is a common complaint with the Christan religion. I will not do that to you, I would simply like to know how you feel on religion, and present my viewpoint as best I can. I realize that religion has been, is, and always will be a very hot topic, and I would like to avoid getting into a fight with anyone about this, so if you reply simply to bash my religion and ignore my point of view, I consider that a rather senseless discussion and will not reply. On that happy note please, bring me your questions, and if I cannot answer them, I will do my best to get you an answer as soon as I can.