Now this is what I call Conspiracy...

This topic is for all of those who have came to be either a strong faith Organized Religion-goer and out to those who have become spiritually enlightened,whether they may be a Pantheist,Polytheist, hell, and also those who have not and may never even consider themselves religious, yes I'm referring to the ones known as,Atheists, may all of you recognize that the only thing that matters here, is that your opinion on this topic DOES.


(Except irrelevant one-liners )

Azazel Vs Yahweh

And once done there, read how even Yahweh wanted sacrifices on the Sabbath.

The Day Of Atonement


It's a topic not really explained in depth and honestly I've come to a fork in the road surely as where it seems I'm looking at two different beings who aren't entirely what we call the COSMIC GOD, although I didn't expect such things at first but there's always been something deep down in me regardless of just somehow knowing that even though the Universe supposedly belongs to the one most know as the "King of Kings" Jesus Christ, but even after I saw this family guy episode last night about this....

God In Heaven

And as far as the first two created....

www.youtube.com...

Ever notice how although it's well known that Moses & King Solomon and hell it's even written in there Noah was the most pure dna-wise, he wasn't living in whats seen as this god's actual will, and keep in mind wasn't easily convinced by this god to build such an Ark, and it's said unlike Esau, Jacob was the chosen brother in rival to Esau but in the same story it also defends Esau saying he wasn't necessarily evil but just not living his life in the way this god liked.


It's also known Esau was more of an outdoors type and liked to hunt (gots to put food on the table!) and as far as Jacob he lived like what most god-FEARING religious people of today do which is closed in, close to home, which makes room for a someone to be close-minded, thus easily controlled.

And if this god is one of love that has open arms to accept us but only if we "let him in" will we receive this love, but there's also the question of why must we fear him and always open any "messages of truth" from people who deliver his word with the same kind of "Hey you don't listen to me you're gonna d--" type of news we hear on CNN reported daily on terrorism.

And Why not instead make this book strike fear into whoever the Antichrist or Satan guy is suppose to be, why not direct the threats towards him instead of the people who will be deceived by this character in the last days? Because surely is it's going to be a walking false messiah on this earth surely he's going to read the basic strategy guide of the guy he's opposing don't you think??


Also when you have finished watching your daily doom and gloom news most feel there's nowhere else to turn but to this one we are suppose to call God, who only tells us of how good he can be to us after first hearing how judgmental he can be on us through the telling accounts of those such as Daniel,Nebuchadnezzar,Jacob and Esau,Moses and the (UN-NAMED only assumed Amenhotep ) Pharaoh, hope some of you noticed the beginning of the Pharaoh everyone assumed was ruling during the time of Egypt and we all know names translate could it be by coincidence the word we end our prayers with was given to us from that same assumed Pharaoh? Seems more intentional I.M.O.

So hoping most of you are people who are or either have been "caught in the middle" like myself you gotta admit both these guys whether Azazel or Yahweh are fighting for worship except Yahweh demands while Azazel seems

To be the one who gives us the choice, and if you recall from the second external source about The Day of Atonement doesn't the scapegoat sent out with the peoples sins even sound like the one who was begotten to DIE for our sins?

Either way we must come to this point of thinking at one time or another that although there's 2 on this Earth who are widely known to want to be known as the one and only God considering there's hiearchy of Angels at some point you have to wonder is the model we see in Church for Priests and Deacons also a model used from Heaven and that maybe the two we know to be wanting worship on this earth are maybe just chief elder gods spoken of sitting on those those 24 thrones mentioned in Revelations?

I would think there actually is an order of lesser-gods that share the "god" title but just like it tells us in Revelations concerning those 24 elder gods at the throne there is one that sits in the middle that is the ruler of all, and at the end of the day he doesn't get his hands dirty those are what the elders for, as long as we know there is a ultimate God over these elders, which I believe his name must be Elohim but regardless of the fact since we are all his creations and even the one known as Satan/Azazel is one his creations shouldn't the Bible and all of us spread this as truth because to say we hate Satan is to say we hate God began creating at all if you ask me considering we were made AFTER the angels...

We shouldn't hate anything at all, and considering Revelations tells us that the true word of God in this worlds last days would be cast out in the "wilderness" (hmm where was that scapegoat sent by any chance if you recall?) and not only that it tells us many will be deceived by the Christ given to them and it seems he's already popular all over the world Jesus which translates into Zeus and then once you take it into Hebrew Old Testament it shows not existence of J's but instead the tetragrammon YHWH and people know it as Yahweh and consider the son Jesus (Yeshua) and I've heard those who preach what they call the true word of the hidden name and they even reach out in most their sermons letting those be aware that if we've been calling on Jesus most our lives he recognizes our ignorance but now that we know the true name there's no excuse.

So in the end when you put all the fancy sermon words away you find that Yeshua is the actual character given to the world of today known as Jesus and although some might be bringing back the teachings of his old word it also may be the beast rising again too..but I'm not stuck on keeping that last opinion that's why I opened this topic because it seems to me that Azazel may in fact be the one who is like what they call "scapegoated" sold out and painted to be the bad character when in fact we're being deceived by the actual liar.

But don't get me wrong maybe Yahweh has received word from those elders at the 24 thrones surrounding the one and only true Elohim that he will win over this world in the end from Azazel.

But we also must keep in mind although it might've been given to him why would this supposed god Yahweh even be fighting back for whats supposedly already his to begin with if he was in fact the elder who was responsible for the 7 days of creation.

Why would does he have to fight so hard to convince us with moving stories and then strike fear with threats afterwards? But when you look at it from those who favor Azazel's perspective they can easily show you how demanding and manipulating this Yahweh/Jesus guy can be.

I just don't know which one is right, I'm basically at a fork in the road leading towards two salesmen trying to sell me something I'm not sure of.

And although I'm far from becoming an atheist because like I said I know there is an all mighty creator but there's the conspiracy of his first creations (angels) battling over something that belongs to the Elohim himself, think of these worlds as ruling Kingdoms

For these Hierarchic Angels or Elder's, where to each there is two princes dispatched to a planet fighting for their Fathers throne so they can be declared a God themselves of that world which their real Father (The KING OF KINGS) created.


And whether Azazel in the end is the one spoken of in Revelations who's word will go into the wilderness considering Jesus is everywhere and I'm sure will continue to be when the One-World-Religion forms except they are going to switch and give the world back Yahweh since web sermons, more and more religious sects devoted to him are quickly growing still acknowledging he is the one the world knows as Jesus Christ and Yeshua was the one sent down to die for their sins on the cross.

Regardless I'm not sure if I'm willing to give my loyalty to either after you really read how they can use people against one another for their own gains of worship..before it's all over and done I think I'll just stick with believing in my own personal God that I already know created everything because I know in fact there had to be only 2 humans in the beginning and damnit before there was even two there was just 1 so something was responsible for all this and I reject the evolution theory because if we came from animals where did the animals evolve from? some dirt? Nahhh.. Don't think so, but anyways please I'm ready to hear everyone's point of view on these matters because when it's all said in done don't you feel like this?





Poor Joe


[edit on 23-4-2009 by hezekiah]

Is anyone going to say anything?

Is it just seems apparent to only me that Azazel being framed by a widely known Yahweh/Jesus character?

And in light of all this I want to let it be known up until I dug deeper into who Azazel was thinking him and Lucifer was entirely TWO different rebellions and separate entities but now it seems they are one in the same and just looking at the state of Churches entirely all denominations and faiths they all admit to Jesus,Jehovah,Messianic and Hebrew Israelites refer to him as Yahweh, some Jews do but disown a fact of a man being nailed to the cross for their sins.

And Revelations speaks that the beast will be of who rules all nations and with that comes religions, so be that if it may does it not seem that in fact this beast could be the one we all know as Yahweh and Azazel is actually who it's talking about that is the real messiah?

I'm just confused, because I don't see Yahweh/Jesus message being diluted at all but only spreading and there's always a new spin or a new pitch to draw listeners in.

Yet you look at those who are apart of DECLARED (out and the open) worship to Azazel/Satan and the memberships are fairly small, and isn't that what the s


Because when you go thru this thread and look back at the old Babylon story although Daniel was trying to persuade Nebuchadnezzar to worship the Abrahamic god known as Yahweh it fails to remind you that everyone else was made to be convinced in the god Daniel worshiped is through them having to go through some kind of loss/torture/or punishment that would in the end make them pledge their faith in this god of Israel that is also suppose to be god of the enter universe, if that's such why demote your title back to just "god of Israel?" and not "God of ALL" instead?

And lets not forget there's much dispute already that the Old Testament God and the New are not the same personalities we can admit that because of most Evangelicals rejection of the Old Testament.

Although that god mentioned in the old is still the same one in the New, but like the title "New" Testament, they gave us a new name, a new man, Jesus, the SON.


But him dying for our sins puts us at contradictory with the story of Azazel the scapegoat being forced into the wilderness with our sins doesn't it?

If there was already a son sent here for that purpose, why should we sacrifice a goat? Hm, maybe that goat-head Satanists use symbolizes just that, the goat that was cast out with our sins, although on the further mislead we gave them a cross, when Yahweh also had his own goat for him during the same time of Azazel!

I'm just looking for someone who is like-minded and can make some sense of this for me because I honestly don't know who to believe both seem manipulative and slick-salesman for our so called "salvation."

Well it's resolved never the less got an inbox but feel free to talk amongst yourselves or mods delete this if you have time...got a feeling it's going to be a deady anyways.

awfully quiet in here :-/

[edit on 24-4-2009 by hezekiah]

For what it is worth I find your thread interesting and worthy of more contemplation.

It is one of those threads with a lot of content that makes my brain say "I will come back later and give this a deeper look"

Flagged.

Hmmm.

Good job putting it all together, sounds very reasonable, and Like the above poster said, worthy of further discussion.

However, I will not be joining the discussion since I'm an Atheist, and you could replace all the religious names with Lord of the Ring names and it would amount to the same to me.

The title caught my eye, what can I say?

reply to post by hezekiah

There is a reason why it is hard to make sense of all this. At every step, there is a certain amount of disinformation thrown in. You do not have real solid facts to use to come up with a good analysis of what the situation is, and how to decide what to do with it, if you could find some sort of conclusion.
I have to agree with you on your "slick salesmen" comment. Everyone wants you to buy into their own version of what they want to present as facts.
My own way of looking at all the Azazel business is that the word scapegoat basically is a good interpretation. It is not actually a direct translation because the original meaning is something more like "sent away". When the King James Bible was put together, there was a word that seemed to fit the concept and that was what they went with.
Since the time of Moses, there has been plenty of time for a lot of different people to make up various meanings for Azazel. I do not see any reason to go with any of them. It seemed pretty straight forward, as to what Aaron was doing. There was this practice in the old law where different infractions were punished in different ways. If it was something like a pathological bent on doing evil in general, but was not immediately manifesting direct crimes that were punishable by death, that person was cast out of the nation and then were unable to infect or inflict itself on the remaining population.
If you want to extrapolate this concept onto a person and call him Satan, then have fun but do not get too carried away. An acceptable path to carry your thoughts on would be to look at how it is used in the canonical Bible. The Book of Revelation uses a lot of symbology and is not always, (or ever) to be taken literally. It talks about this Azazel thing in that it uses a Satan type being to explain how sin is finally dealt with. Let's see if I can make sense for a few seconds: Now, you have this entity or person, or group of people represented by a single person or the whole concept of sinfulness, wandering about in the desert. All theses scapegoats or Azazels or exiles from the world of goodness, or evil demons, had been allowed to inhabit the neither regions or uninhabitable areas, out on the fringe of existence. This condition goes on and on until the clock strikes the time for a change. The fulfillment of the promise of the blooming of the whole earth comes due. Oops, hang on! if that was to happen, what about Azazel? He was cast out into the wilderness and if the wilderness is being done away with in order to expand the fertile area of the planet, what is the fate of him? The answer is punishment delayed, but regardless of that, inevitable. Azazel is not fated to live forever and will have to be permanently done away with. That is the story that we are given, and make of it what you want, as far as what the actual reality is that it represents.


[edit on 27-4-2009 by jmdewey60]

This is not really about religion in general as you only seem to use the bible to cover the subject.

reply to post by Dcotor R


I think that is my point. Hezekiah brings up a bunch of links to one opinion or another concerning what the Azazel is. I do not see the point of reitterating any of those. Instead of going from one to another to show them as wrong, it is a lot easier to just state what is right.
I pointed out in the beinning of the post that the story has been tampered with and added to, for a long time. It seems to be a favorite because it is so obscure and difficult to ubderstand. People can come along and make of it what they want or manufacture a whole alternate universe to set it into.
I think the whole Satan myth is overblown and can be a big distraction, even to Christians. The important thing to know is that there is bad spirit that will try to get people to believe a lie. Creating a story about it and personifying it is a little too much information.

[edit on 30-4-2009 by jmdewey60]