Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

reply to post by Imago Dei


I am a Baptist, my church is in the SBC.

God is sovereign. Free will is not Biblical. Man is enslaved by sin. Apart from his grace no one can be saved.

there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
Romans 3:11

It's not personal so don't get so upset. I am not calling you a pagan but I am calling your theology pagan. You are placing your human free will above Gods sovereignty, probably without realizing it. The free will concept appears no where in scripture. It's one of the main tenets of secular humanism which have infiltrated the church.






[edit on 6/23/2009 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Imago Dei

In the begining was the word, the word was with God and THE WORD WAS GOD!

This is from John 1:1 and is used by so many trinitarians that claim Jesus and God are the same. The word "God" is the greek word "theos" which is a title, not a name. In many instances, God is identified with words like "Elhoim", "YHWH", etc. The greek word "theos" is used for identifying idols, angels, demons, Satan, etc. Satan is called the "god of this world" and that word "god" is the greek "theos". Did you ever stop to think that John was calling Jesus a God but not God, the Father? After all, Jesus continuously prayed to the Father, was resurrected by the Father, and sits at the right hand of the Father. My conclusion is that Jesus is A God but not God the Father. In my religion, we all strive to become part of the family of God. The word "God" is a word identifying the entire family of God or the "Godhead". In the Godhead the Father is at the top, Jesus is at His right hand, and in waiting is His Church who will be resurrected and become His children just as Jesus. We all strive to become God ourselves by becoming children of the Father and brothers/sisters of Christ. If Jesus is God, why do we pray to God in the name of Jesus? Jesus is our mediator to God. He took the role of the High Priest when He died and shed His blood for us. Let me ask you, what your religion is? Take a bit of your own medicine for a change. Peace.

And the WORD WAS GOD. Means Jesus is God, it means the same thing in Greek fella.

Jesus only had the power to do this and His sacrifice was only acceptable to God, because he was Himself God.

What is my religion ?

I am a bible believer, I believe God wrote the bible through men, and I have received Christ as my saviour after reading the bible in the comfort of my own home. I believe every word in the bible is God breathed and I have irrefutable proof that it is. My faith is not blind faith, it is faith based on irrrefutable evidence/facts.

Ive spent a lot of time in many different churches, for over 20 years, Ive been baptised on three separate occassions only because of petty legalistic pastors who would not accept my baptism from another fellowship before allowing me to be a member of their church. I was heading for my fourth baptism whem I realised something wasn't quite right. Ive seen pastors usher their unruley rebellious children into the ministery and fleece the flock to pay them above average wages only to return overseas and leave said offspring to minister to the flock. Ive listned to Pentecostal Pastors admit to my face what they are doing and preaching is not biblical with a wave of the hand and the statement "well that's pentecostalism, it's what we do" Ive sat listening to charasmatic movement preachers for weeks on end without them opening the bible or refering to scripture even once.

I am no longer a member of any organised denomination/sect or creed, although at least once a year I observe the Lords super in a local open brethern fellowship. I've attended presbyterian, baptists, charismatic, penticostal, open bretheren and independant baptist fellowships including a year fulltime bible college at an independant Baptist college (majoring in the study of cults). I've been a youth pastor, a sunday school teacher, a music director, church drummer and a door to door evangelist, Ive preached at beach mission outreaches, been a youth camp leader and I have led many people to a saving faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I love my Lord, I know He is real, and I know His word is true, and I recognise a member of a cult from a mile way (and mostly I feel sorry for them) and I recognise people who misinterpret scripture from 20 miles away. I have studied what' s going on in the occult world from a biblical perspective and I have picked the brains of many a luciferian and have listensed to lecture upon lecture about he the illuminati and their dastardly deads of what they are all about for the last 10 years. I was saved 24 year ago. And I say cults like yours are as dangerous if not more so than luciferian teachers like Micahel Tsarion.

There are only two religions in the world

Those who claim and profess Jesus Christ to be Lord and saviour and God, and all those who claim other wise.

You are in the camp that states otherwise, and it is extremely dangerous because you do it all under the guise of "biblical christianity" And it's all a twisted pack of lies and you have the bald face cheek to call the true biblical Christianity "Pagan" All I have left to say to you now is; shame on you.











[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

I am a Baptist, my church is in the SBC.

God is sovereign. Free will is not Biblical. Man is enslaved by sin. Apart from his grace no one can be saved.

there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
Romans 3:11

It's not personal so don't get so upset. I am not calling you a pagan but I am calling your theology pagan. You are placing your human free will above Gods sovereignty, probably without realizing it. The free will concept appears no where in scripture. It's one of the main tenets of secular humanism which have infiltrated the church.

[edit on 6/23/2009 by Bigwhammy]

Dude. I dont know why you keep posting Youtube clips, Im not watching any of them.

Chose you this day whom you will serve.

Lets leave it at that shall we? Call it freewill call it choice, we are not freaken automatons or locomons. if you call that pagan then I will call you a blasphemer.

Jesus taught us to pray "thy will not mine be done" Human beings have a will and they must chose to allow Gods will to usurp their own, if they do not submit, again submission, yielding, abiding, these are all clear biblical teachings which require personal choice and effort and spritual discipline and if not excercised , then we are living by our own will and not Gods.

Stop being a pedantic petty bore. Get of your mothers tit and get into the strong meat of the word for crying out loud man, the lost dont need to be subjected to this carry on. Why would they want a bar of it??? Stop preaching your petty heresy to the converted and go and rescue some poor soul from the flames of eternal hell why dont you??










[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

reply to post by Imago Dei


I feel the need to call you out. It's as if you claim to be holier than the next person. For you to sit there at your little computer screen and call me or anyone else's church a "cult" is degrading on your part. I can't believe you are even putting me in the same category as luciferians. How dare you! This website says to deny ignorance and brother, you are a very ignorant person. You are one of those who have the "common" christian motives ingrained into your brain where even if there were a neon sign pointing to Jesus Himself stateing "I am not the Father, I am His Son" you would still ignore that easy to read sign. How can you take two different things and call them the same? God and Jesus explained easily metaphorically with melons. Take a watermelon and a honeydew melon. They are both different but are both still considered melons. Jesus and the Father God are different but are both considered to be a God. Maybe you can't accept this fact because you are caught in this idea of "monotheism" but the truth is the truth. You say my beliefs are dangerous to proper christain doctrine yet I say the same to you. You are a pawn in Satan's chess game trying to lead the flock astray. I say to you, what makes me a cult and you righteous? You are only right through your eyes. I think I have to end this now before I start breaking commandments. I'm a better person than that. I'm a better person for not calling anyone's church or belief "luciferian" as you have with me and bigwhammy. You have already broken the "golden rule" Jesus gave to us nearly 2000 years ago to "love your neighbor as yourself." This rule is a summary of the last 6 commandments. You are in violation of breaking this rule and a number of these commandments. Might I add that self-righteousness is calls for blasphemy too. I say to you my misguided brother to GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by Imago Dei

 

I feel the need to call you out. It's as if you claim to be holier than the next person. For you to sit there at your little computer screen and call me or anyone else's church a "cult" is degrading on your part. I can't believe you are even putting me in the same category as luciferians. How dare you! This website says to deny ignorance and brother, you are a very ignorant person. You are one of those who have the "common" christian motives ingrained into your brain where even if there were a neon sign pointing to Jesus Himself stateing "I am not the Father, I am His Son" you would still ignore that easy to read sign. How can you take two different things and call them the same? God and Jesus explained easily metaphorically with melons. Take a watermelon and a honeydew melon. They are both different but are both still considered melons. Jesus and the Father God are different but are both considered to be a God. Maybe you can't accept this fact because you are caught in this idea of "monotheism" but the truth is the truth. You say my beliefs are dangerous to proper christain doctrine yet I say the same to you. You are a pawn in Satan's chess game trying to lead the flock astray. I say to you, what makes me a cult and you righteous? You are only right through your eyes. I think I have to end this now before I start breaking commandments. I'm a better person than that. I'm a better person for not calling anyone's church or belief "luciferian" as you have with me and bigwhammy. You have already broken the "golden rule" Jesus gave to us nearly 2000 years ago to "love your neighbor as yourself." This rule is a summary of the last 6 commandments. You are in violation of breaking this rule and a number of these commandments. Might I add that self-righteousness is calls for blasphemy too. I say to you my misguided brother to GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE!

In that case you get off your high horse and stop calling what I believe to be pagan, if you cant take it don't dish it out. I'm only following the golden rule by doing onto you what you are doing onto me. Its not nice is it? Also just because I refute Big Swami's musings doesn't mean you can form an imaginary aliance against me because I disagree with both of you. Your forgetting that he doesn't agree with your doctrines on hell either.

The first comandment is to love the Lord your God and to have no other gods before Him, Not Love the Lord your God(s) or love the Lord your God and His Son and His spirit. So you have broken the first commandment already. I rest my case your honour, no further questions, we'll let the jury decide. And "being confomed into His image" does not mean we are being comformed into gods. That's a pagan and luciferian doctrine not to mention plain loco. Have you dismounted yet???














[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

This thread has degenerated into a slanging match between individuals who appear to have lost the plot!

Hell exists.

Imagine your life as it is. Then remove from it all those things that make it tolerable; love, family, friends, good health, comfort, self esteem, etc., ie all those things that may be attributed to a God of Love. Such is hell. Just the elements that seek/work to undo God's Grace.

And remember this, in hell, there will be no placebo's to ease the pain of existance, no drink, no sex, no drugs, not even endorphine!

Free will is real. When God expelled Adam and Eve from Eden, He said, Thou May go forth and multiply and have dominion of the Earth. Adam and Eve had already rejected God's wisdom and relied instead on their own, perhaps believing that a loving God would not punish them.

Free will is the post expulsion gift that allows us another chance to trust God!

As for who of us will enter hell and who won't, remember this;

Only by Grace are we saved.

All those who think that by their own efforts they can 'buy' a place in Heaven, or as the JW's believe, the new earth, are very mistaken and have been deceived by Charles Taze Russell and his ilk.

I applaud anyone who has rejected the established churches in the world. Though the Bible makes clear, the True Church, Christ's Bride, is seen and known to all, if only we knew it.

Jesus also makes clear that he will not recognise some who claim to be his and that others who have never heard of him, will enter the kingdom of heaven.

Originally posted by Imago Dei


Dude. I dont know why you keep posting Youtube clips, Im not watching any of them.

A closed mind can and will never learn.

"If one gives an answer before he hears, it is his folly and shame." (Pr 18:13)

Chose you this day whom you will serve.

I chose Christ. It's funny that you preach down to me I use scripture that you can not address - you just ignore Gods word - and you only use your personal opinions backed with logical fallacy. Like "predestined after" which is an absurdity.

I don't care about wining a debate. I wish you would make a decent argument for your beliefs - I would prefer your position. But its not about my preferences - its about God word.

Lets leave it at that shall we? Call it freewill call it choice, we are not freaken automatons or locomons. if you call that pagan then I will call you a blasphemer.

Jesus taught us to pray "thy will not mine be done" Human beings have a will and they must chose to allow Gods will to usurp their own, if they do not submit, again submission, yielding, abiding, these are all clear biblical teachings which require personal choice and effort and spritual discipline and if not excercised , then we are living by our own will and not Gods.

Stop being a pedantic petty bore. Get of your mothers tit and get into the strong meat of the word for crying out loud man, the lost dont need to be subjected to this carry on. Why would they want a bar of it??? Stop preaching your petty heresy to the converted and go and rescue some poor soul from the flames of eternal hell why dont you??

I would love you to convince me that everyone has a choice. I want to believe that. Unfortunately for a lot of mankind it just is not true. I have struggled with this and researched it, the Bible is clear.

Read these verses slowly!

Jesus taught the exact opposite of what you say.

"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day." (Jn 6:44)

"And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”" (Jn 6:65)

"Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me." (Jn 10:25-27)

The Father must call you before you can make a choice. Period.

They do not believe because they are not a part of his flock which is the opposite of what you profess.


[edit on 6/24/2009 by Bigwhammy]

This is hilarious, if you don't believe in Hellfire or the Trinity, you are automatically part of cult. Cult is the new trigger word that replaces heretic from the dark ages.

What are you guys from the 12th century? You are the type of religious people that would be burning Locoman and myself at the stake for being heretics if we lived in that period.

This is ludicrous, and a classic distraction tactic, instead of debating topic you brand people with a negative connotation, to take away the validity of scripture.

This is the MO of people trying to defend the great theological dogmatic apostate lies, that were generated by the first apostates from pure Christianity.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Actually I think you might get by with your willful ignorance of the doctrine of the trinity or the eternal nature of hell but what you probably will not get by with is denying the certain deity of Christ.

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily," (Col 2:8-9)

Christs deity is a non negotiable part of the Gospel and for that reason the Watchtower Cult is a dangerous group of heretics leading the unfortunate into apostasy.

reply to post by Imago Dei


I bet you believe in the pre-trib rapture too, don't you? Did I call you pagan at all? Well, if you celebrate christmas or easter you are celebrating ancient pagan holidays. Where is it said that Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all the same being? The Holy Spirit isn't even a being. Let me ask you a question. What is a cult to you? Here's a definition for you.

Cult definitions coined from 1920 onward[1] refer to a cohesive social group and their devotional beliefs or practices, which the surrounding population considers to be outside of mainstream cultures.

If my beliefs are outside of "Mainstream Christianity" then I can rest comfortable tonight. How can the "little flock" (Luke 12:32) be mainstream? Your beliefs are mainstream and I don't follow the misguided flock of "churchianity." Every belief I have can be proven in the bible. If you call my beliefs a cult, you are calling the Holy Bible the scripture of cults or "luciferian" scripture. I put God before anyone or anything. I haven't broken any commandment. Jesus made His own commadment to "love Me as I have loved you." Jesus, instituting a "NEW" commmandment says this but why would He say this if He were indeed God the Father who already had a commandment to LOVE Him. That's a contradiciton if Jesus and God are the same.

By the way, I don't ride horses. What describes God better to you? Merciful death or torment and agony? We have a loving and merciful God. Don't forget that and re-read your "hell" scripture and truely research it.

The End!

getting back on the subject:




[edit on 24-6-2009 by holywar]

Oh wow, some crazy stuff I have come accross in this thread. And the first things I want to say from reading a good amount of this, getting insulted by discussion is ignorant. Calling someone elses religion a cult is ignorant....bc they say yours is pagan, which is more so true, but Im not going to get into all that and have someone slaudering me, because I looked this topic up specifically to see how crazy this topic can be and to give my input on what I believe, though im sure a good amount of it is already been discussed. I explain things though in the simplest terms possible, common sense things, things so easy to comprehend and if you have a good heart and the love for God & Jesus (2 seperate beings) itll come simple to you.

So to start on topic....There is a hell!! But that Hell is not some type of fiery pit where you'll forever burn or be tortured. I've read several things that the topic starter discussed. Which i don't believe a lot of others know...but I feel i can go into it even more...unless I've missed some que points.

First off the word hell is sybolic...
Starting with the back of the bible....

Hell (Hades, Sheol)
Not a literal place of fiery torment
A place of INACTIVITY
Jeses was raised from the grave Hell

Fire is a symbol of annilation
Cutting off in death symbolized by fire
Satans fiery toment is everlasting death (your grave)

Simply stating that Hell symbolizes your bodies inactivity, your being dead, your being buried in the ground...thats where it ends, your dead! you go to no hell (your in hell your dead and buried) or no heaven...does not say those go to heaven...only later will there be chosen some (144,000) to go to heaven.

Now to go more into the bible with use of scriptures :

Eccl. 9 :5,10
"The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all...All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devishing nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol, the place to which you are going." (if they are conscious of nothing , they obviously feel no pain) (Sheol "the grave" "hell" "the world of the dead" YOUR GRAVE

But some say its your soul that burns eternally. Our soul is our being alive

Gen. 2:7 "Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul" (notice is doesnt say the man was given a soul, but he became a soul....a living person.

Ezek. 18:4 "The soul that is sinning - it iteslf will die." ("the man")("the person")
So when you die your soul dies as well!!

From a book :"The concept of 'soul' meaning the purely spiritual, immaterial reality, separate from the 'body'...does not exsist in the Bible."

Acts 2: 25-27
"David speaketh concerning him [Jesus Christ]...Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine HOly One to see corruption."
The fact God did not leave Jesus in hell implies that he was in hell at least for some time (his grave) doesnt it?

Do you get out of Bible hell?
Rev. 20:13,14
"The sea gave up the dead which where in it; and death and hell delieved up the dead which where in them : and they were judged every man according to their workd. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire."
So the dead will be delivered from hell. Also hell is not the same as the lake of fire, but will be cast into the lake of fire (the world of the dead)

Traslators of their veiw on hell have allowed there personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in the rendering of the original words. King James renders she'ohl as "hell" "the grave" and "the pit" hai'des is rendered both "hell" and "grave" Todays english version renders hai'des as "Hades" and hell as the "world of the dead" and so on

mine to continue my thoughts from above ran out of room
will edit soon with my continuence

[edit on 24-6-2009 by decievedperception]

one more post im claiming
i will edit soon to contnue, know i will need the room
just want them to all fall and continue together without interuption

reply to post by decievedperception


Sorry, can't help myself... I had to interrupt just to say:

WELCOME TO ATS!!!!!!

your words are music to my ears

reply to post by teapot


Good post finally some sanity re-enters this thread. Bravo

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
This is hilarious, if you don't believe in Hellfire or the Trinity, you are automatically part of cult. Cult is the new trigger word that replaces heretic from the dark ages.

What are you guys from the 12th century? You are the type of religious people that would be burning Locoman and myself at the stake for being heretics if we lived in that period.

This is ludicrous, and a classic distraction tactic, instead of debating topic you brand people with a negative connotation, to take away the validity of scripture.

This is the MO of people trying to defend the great theological dogmatic apostate lies, that were generated by the first apostates from pure Christianity.

Well the slanging match started when I was called a pagan by bald face liars. Forget he word cult then, bald face LIARS will suffice from here on in. You find this hillarious Glad your getting your cheap thrills.







[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by Locoman8
The End!

Your beliefs are outside the bible. There is no end.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Imago Dei]

Originally posted by decievedperception
Oh wow, some crazy stuff I have come accross in this thread. And the first things I want to say from reading a good amount of this, getting insulted by discussion is ignorant. Calling someone elses religion a cult is ignorant....bc they say yours is pagan, which is more so true, but Im not going to get into all that and have someone slaudering me,

Your not going to get into it and yet you concure that its true that what I have been saying is paganl?

Well thats rich. Thanks for coming in to the thread with more crazy deceived perceptions. I will not call it cult again, I will stick the point and call it "lies" from here on in.

Have a nice time people, this thread is a waste of space. I will leave you to it.