I need proof.

arghh you are getting my point with the first line of your statement and believe it or not camcorders can be hooked up to telescopes.reply to post by Gawdzilla

reply to post by hornum


No Prob,
Just one I pulled out of my hat that I though would give you a mild brain massage.

You have hit it on the head though, perception is a key, but another key we souldn;t over look is need.

I got t a point where I honestly had to ask myself, do I need the know for sure?

I have had experiences and have seen objects, with other people in my company, that is not something that we would consider of our world/technology, but that fact that I believe something exists in soemtimes enough.

Sometimes I feel if I was meant to know more, I would.

Originally posted by afaik
reply to post by hornum

 

No Prob,
Just one I pulled out of my hat that I though would give you a mild brain massage.

You have hit it on the head though, perception is a key, but another key we souldn;t over look is need.

I got t a point where I honestly had to ask myself, do I need the know for sure?

I have had experiences and have seen objects, with other people in my company, that is not something that we would consider of our world/technology, but that fact that I believe something exists in soemtimes enough.

Sometimes I feel if I was meant to know more, I would.

If fuzz logic is good for you, good for you!

But please, don't expect anyone serious to accept it. Warm and fuzzy is a stuffed animal, not a scientific rigor.

Thankyou! Need is a very important thing not to be overlooked. I believe in possibility and cannot rule anything out, Aliens and UFO's being some of them but I truely do see a lack of proof. Yeas plenty of people saying they have seen things and it's not that I don't believe them it is simply that I question their perception of eventsin alot of cases. reply to post by afaik

How is this fuzzy logic?reply to post by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by hornum
If you believe in God, you believe he created everything therefore they arent alien they are like us and of God.reply to post by lastxdance

 

Not at all. I believe they are of God yes, but the fallen angels. I believe that after "The Great Disappearance" they will come with Anti-christ (who comes as a savior to all religions.) and explain the Rapture away as "alien abduction from Yaweh the evil ET." I know it sounds weird, but what better way to decieve THIS generation.

ON TOPIC:
There's plenty of proof everywhere for UFO's, hell, the government of Britain is open to extra-terrestrial visitors by law.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


yeah I know,
logic, with everything else gets a bit fuzzy this late at night.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is, what you gonna do anyway, even if you did find out tomorrow that old lady accross the road was really an alien living under some MIB controlled treaty/intergalactic exchange syste, you still have to sh@t shower and shave.

If we all woke up tomorrow aliens had landed, most people would still be more worried about their bank balances and super annuation than the prospect of meeting the neighbours.

I'll butt out now and check in tomorrow when my brain circuits aren't as fried and logic paths are better defined.

reply to post by hornum



theres plenty of proof out there. look to ancient history. start by googling the elongated skulls. In museums around the world are sitting a strange race who had very elongated heads. archaeologists in malta have admitted that they are a different race from humans. youll notice they look like aliens just from the skulls. found in nazca; paracas; malta; egypt (nefertit, akhenaton; tutmosis III), olmec, siberia (utube about these recently). most archaeologists will tell you its a deformity. ask yourself - the exact same deformity, all over the world? wouldnt we call this a race? Why did the normal/lower class humans bind their kids skulls to imitate these priests/kings/rulers with elongated head 'deformities'?
nah, they're aliens. you can tell just by looking at them.

theres the starchild skull - book has been written on it. waiting for definite dna paternal this year.

dropa race in china - descendents have been studied by researches from universities and apparantly, very odd genetic traits.

stories/accounts of giant skeletons being found all over the world. google search is good. early sailor accounts of patagonian giants. giants in bible. modern day "giants". giants allegedly having six fingers/toes and double teeth. indian tribes today with six fingers/toes and double teeth (genetic throwback?). giants graves (tomba di giganti) in sardinia. very LONG tumuli - to bury someone? Hunnenbedden (giants beds) and Hunnengraber (giants graves) in holland and germany.. ufo encounters with giants near gilgal refaim (also associated with giants in history); utube 'hoax' giant photos; (are they hoaxes?); giant skeltons found in north america - skeletons then 'disappear'/reburied; story that giants built malta temples (one is called gigantia) - they certainly LOOK like the work of giants; story that giants built Baalbeck (incredible sized stone blocks) on orders of ancient king; story that hercules the giant lived at tiryns - a megalithic (huge stones) fort; ajax the giant in the illiad etc etc etc.

was there a blue/green skinned alien race of people in ancient times? (tuatha de danaan in ireland supposed in some stories to be green skinned; green man; witches with green skin in legend; blue skinned indian gods; osiris had green skin (egypt); Modern day: blue skinned people of the appalachian mountains. PHOTOS of them - yes they do have really blue skin - can be seen if you google it. Said to be a genetic disorder. (throwback i wonder)?

NOW; consider: ancient ruins. If there were aliens visiting earth - would we find amazing ancient buildings that it doesnt seem like primitive humans with bronze tools and flint knives could have built? Buildings that would challenge the best construction engineers and cranes we have today? Stones that would need to be moved on steel railway today due to their weight? Stones our biggest cranes can barely lift right now - in the 1930s we couldnt have lifted them at all. massive rocks that look like they've been cut with lazers? Do these buildings exist? Yes. everywhere. see: Baalbeck. Egypt - pyramid, osireion, valley temple. sacsayhuaman; puma punka; tiwanaku; macchu picchu; ollantaytambo fortress; pisac; malta temples (gigantia; tarxien; mnajdra; hagar qim); hypogeum of hal salfieni in malta; hattusus; alaca huyuk; tiryns; mycenae; tombs of the giants on sardinia and other structures there; megalithic buildings on balaeric islands; sudan pyramids; axum obelisks; lalibela churches; persepolis rock cut tombs; petra; nan madol; latte stones; marae; platforms of mu; trilithon of tonga; carved hills of rapa iti; candi sukah in java; dolmen on borneo; dolmen in korea; dolmen in jordan; dolmen in india; tiahuanaco; stonehenge; wayland's smithy; avebury; etc; silbury hill; glastonbury tor; kofun in japan; yonaguni; megalthic forts in greece (see on the megaltihic portal website); korean kofun; chinese pyramids; bosnian pyramids; russian pyramid; batan grande pyramids -250 of them in lambayeque valley; nazca lines and 'runways' - look on google earth - tehre's thousands of them; etc etc etc...

NOW consider; are there any rock paintings depicting beings in what looks like helmets/space suits? check out the ancient sumerian statue of ishtar aka ('goddess with a vase'). from teh BACK ANGLE. check out the stone of palanque and many other strange standing statues from mexico with 'gods' riding in 'jaguars' or 'snakes'.

if you're into atlantis u might want to check out the 'lady of elche' statue. reminds me of leia from starwars.

NOW ask are there any ancient texts which talk about ancient flying machines that sound like ufos? Check out the vedic texts of ramayana; vimaika shastra; etc etc.
what about pictures of ufos on ancient art/walls? Check out the temple of seti 1 in egypt (abydos). there are others too.

NOW wonder what else archaeolgists have overlooked, misinterpreted, covered up or forgotten to tell you about.

A fair belief. One that I know a great deal of but you are missing my point. The possibiliies are endless and none of it is wrong until proven otherwise. My simple point is that there is a lack of real evidence for the widespread claims.reply to post by lastxdance

Maybe we should start by realizing elongated skulls were a cosmetic effect created by "boarding" a child's skull so it was warped into a "pleasing" shape.

Or we could assume that they were simply copying little space friends who just happened to have skulls shaped like that.

reply to post by hornum


These threads are semi-regular on ATS, like the dreaded false dichotomy of the sceptic vs. believer threads, so they're quite boring.

I didn't start out a sceptic, as a teenager, I wasn't a hardcore believer, but I was a believer. It was the process of examining things in detail that made me sceptical. The nail in the coffin was attending open psychology lectures by Prof Chris French (many believers hate him), and learning about just how rubbish all of us (believer and sceptic alike) are at recording information.

Stuff like this scares me because it suggests that being sceptical shouldn't just apply to extraordinary things like UFOs, but to all aspects of experience, and that basically the only way to get to any kind of truth is to think critically about everything.

That's just me though, I'm quite anal retentive. But having been a believer, I don't think they're idiots, or think the dreaded "sceptic vs. believer" argument is worthwhile.

I think there's hard evidence of UFOs, the recent UK MOD FOIA release's diamond shaped UFO is a good example (I hope British UFO groups are tracking down the photographs and photographer, but I doubt it), but the alien angle, to me, seems very unlikely.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by jackphotohobby]

This is not proof. Simply mysteries that we are trying to work out. I know there are some very interesting things out there particularly in our past but this not proof.reply to post by rapunzel222

The diamondscan be explained as high tech human technology and not of alien tech.reply to post by jackphotohobby

Too true!reply to post by Gawdzilla

Originally posted by hornum
The diamondscan be explained as high tech human technology and not of alien tech.reply to post by jackphotohobby

 

Did you miss the following bit?

I think there's hard evidence of UFOs, the recent UK MOD FOIA release's diamond shaped UFO is a good example (I hope British UFO groups are tracking down the photographs and photographer, but I doubt it), but the alien angle, to me, seems very unlikely.

I don't understand what I asserted to elicit your response. Please explain.

[edit on 7-4-2009 by jackphotohobby]

I am sorry, I agree with you. I should have been more thorough in my agreeance.reply to post by jackphotohobby

reply to post by hornum


If I hooked up a camcorder to a telescope and took footage of some light dancing in the sky, it could be debunked as CGI, or some natural phenominon. Those looking to disprove will always be right in their minds. When you see first hand, something you cannot explain, you might become a believer. But a believer in what? Most who see these things have no idea what we saw. So to speculate on little green guys would be quite a leap. We simply don't know untill we are told the truth. If you open up your mind and look at evidence with mild scepticism instead of absolutly debunking everthing you see, there might be some revelations found. then again maybe not. Maybe it's all the millitary and has been since the begining of history. Maybe it's time travel, maybe it's aliens, maybe it's mass haucinations, maybe it's a recessive gene that makes ordinary people go nuts for a bit. believe what you want.

I agree totally! However I started this thread to see if anyone could actually show me some evidence that truely is unexplainable. Nobody has been able to show me such things.reply to post by network dude

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by hornum

 

If I hooked up a camcorder to a telescope and took footage of some light dancing in the sky, it could be debunked as CGI, or some natural phenominon. Those looking to disprove will always be right in their minds. When you see first hand, something you cannot explain, you might become a believer. But a believer in what? Most who see these things have no idea what we saw. So to speculate on little green guys would be quite a leap. We simply don't know untill we are told the truth. If you open up your mind and look at evidence with mild scepticism instead of absolutly debunking everthing you see, there might be some revelations found. then again maybe not. Maybe it's all the millitary and has been since the begining of history. Maybe it's time travel, maybe it's aliens, maybe it's mass haucinations, maybe it's a recessive gene that makes ordinary people go nuts for a bit. believe what you want.

Why do "true believers" fear debunking so much? Do they NEED bunk? Is that why they worry that "debunking" will kill their pet theories?

Folks, debunking is NOT a bad word, it's the way we separate the wheat from the chaff. The desperate efforts to hijack and redefine the term "debunking" is really very sad. If you're afraid your theory will be debunk there is probably a very good reason for that.

So true. Liked your wheat and chaff bit.reply to post by Gawdzilla