The lightspeed barrier

If physicists and other scientists hypothesize the speed of light is actually the fastest speed that can only be obtained in the naturally-known universe; how did aliens supposedly reach our planet? They must have been traveling for quite a long time! But then again, time is relative!

Any thoughts?

[edit on 31-3-2009 by LactoseIntolerant]

well there's also quantum entanglement and teleportation, which, if you believe einstein, is what is referred to as spooky action at a distance. and it's instantaneous no matter how far apart the teleportation devices are from each other, due to entangled quantum pairs or something like that.

Originally posted by undo
well there's also quantum entanglement and teleportation, which, if you believe einstein, is what is referred to as spooky action at a distance. and it's instantaneous no matter how far apart the teleportation devices are from each other, due to entangled quantum pairs or something like that.

This...or plancks theory.If we are thinking logically and rationally ANY sort of travel via propulsion is simply idiotic...im sure aliens thought the same.

Quantum entanglement proves there is no "light speed barrier".
But as we haven't even managed a paltry 10% of light speed, it may be a very long time before we learn how to take advantage of quantum effects.
But then again, it may be tomorrow if there is another Einstein or Tesla tinkering around somewhere in his basement.

Originally posted by LactoseIntolerant
If physicists and other scientists hypothesize the speed of light is actually the fastest speed that can only be obtained in the naturally-known universe; how did aliens supposedly reach our planet? They must have been traveling for quite a long time! But then again, time is relative!

Any thoughts?

[edit on 31-3-2009 by LactoseIntolerant]

Lets say just for kicks that lightspeed is impossible to surpass(i'm not of this opinion.) what would be required to explore the galaxy? generation ships. enormous ships equipped with everything needed for generations of a species to traverse enormous stellar distances.

Now many of those who are against the idea that aliens are in our neck of the woods will say " they wouldn't be able to get here. it'd take forever." and other such lines. My point being, we can not guess at the minds, intentions or values of an alien species. It may be perfectly reasonable for them to travel in generation ships for vast distances on huge spans of time to explore the galaxy. we may never know.

Personally i think there are ways around lightspeed, like spooky action at a distance, wormholes and possibly other forms of travel not even dreamed of by sci-fi writers. who's to say really? the universe is vast and infinite and so are the possibilities.

reply to post by LactoseIntolerant


The light speed barrier does not apply to ET.

Anyway it sounds like you wanted speculation on possible FTL technology. Many have been suggested

1) Warp Drive: By warping space(Lazer's explanation)
2) Quantum teleportation: By dematerialising(Meirs explanation)
3) Using natural wormholes or creating wormholes

One of my own solutions: Discovering the mechanisms behind mass-effects predicated by relativity and manipulating it to prevent mass effects.



[edit on 31-3-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply to post by optimus primal


Well said on all counts, Optimus. We cannot but guess at the mindset of, say, hive minds that live thousands of our years, or just hiveminds in general. "They" may have left a few "dinghys" here to study our peculiar manner of staying alive, even though we work primarily against ourselves rather than in concert with each other.

I think lightspeed is as insurmountable a barrier as the speed of sound. When we are mature enough (I hope) as a species to discover The Way, we will realize how temporary the lightspeed barrier truly is. We have, after all, just been able to even measure the speed of light for a short time. When one of our species is able to unite the constants c and g, well...... that will likely go a long way towards our abilities to traverse vast distances at a blink (relative blink)

Meanwhile, let us not discard the possibility that our "visitors" are:

1. Not visitors at all, but native species that developed in advance of humans

2. Visitors from our own solar system, who just happen to have an entirely different chemistry.

Either 1 or 2 would certainly want to keep a close eye on us. We are, after all, pretty dangerous and inconsistent creatures. We think nothing of vanquishing weaker species for our luxurious lives.

The preceeding was a snippet of my own views and in no way reflects the opinions of ATS management, mods, members, the OP, nor the person I posed this reply to.

Peace

The constant speed of light "c" is only in relation to light in a vacuum, and observed from the perspective of a rotating sphere.

Outside those restraints Einstein's constant c does not apply. Meaning there is no requirement for the speed of light to be constant, or limited in it's speed.

Einstein made no assertions as to the speed of light observed from a non rotating point in space outside the influence of a planet. That perspective is not even considered.

gravity is much faster than light =P

2nd line

Like others, I too defy c

Quantum effects are much faster than c. In fact, there is nothing in physics that prevents a rod of the length of many light years when being pushed on one end to instantly move on the other.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
Like others, I too defy c

Quantum effects are much faster than c. In fact, there is nothing in physics that prevents a rod of the length of many light years when being pushed on one end to instantly move on the other.

Wrong answer, thank you for playing! HOOONK!

The length of the rod, assuming you had an immovable object of nearly infinite mass to rest it on as a fulcrum, would have immense weight because it would need to be proportionately thick to move its entire mass without bending. You therefore face the traditional problem: It would require nearly infinite energy to move the rod. It always comes down to unrealistic quanities of energy to move faster than the speed of light in Einsteinian physics.

The next time you might consider trying to use your imagination to envision the actual physical system, and consider the implications instead of quoting someone else who dosen't bother either.

Not being rude, just constructive criticism. Actually think for yourself, it's empowering.

Plenty of possible theories excluding faster than light travel

Generation ships as you pointed out, where the inhabitants of the large ships have been traveling for hundreds/thousands of years breeding on board

They could be in suspended animation until they arrive at their destination

The inhabitants are not alive, but forms of robots as normal organics can not survive the trip. An exotic form of probe.

They've been genetically altered to live for long periods in space

They're from somewhere closer than we think, IE, alternative dimension, nearby star system that we didn't examine for life correctly, future selves, etc

reply to post by Cyberbian


Wow can you be anymore patronizing

Look at my example again, my rod is not of infinite length And nobody is saying such a rod could exist, it's a thought experiment. Chill.

I certainly am no astrophysicist nor pretend to be an expert on any of this stuff, but I've read enough about this that I figure if such alien cultures are sight seeing around the multiverse, they aren't travelling by means of 'lightspeed' or 'faster-than-lightspeed'.

It'll be one of these warping or bending of space & time that allows them to jump across vast distances in what could be perceived as FTL.

Lightspeed prolly is the fastest form of travel... for 'light'. But I'm sure any sufficiently advanced civilisation will have harnessed the power of gravity combined with vast amounts of energy/power and managed to come up with something.

Of course, I have no evidence or proof of this. Just hopeful

[edit on 1-4-2009 by noonebutme]

Originally posted by Cyberbian
The constant speed of light "c" is only in relation to light in a vacuum, and observed from the perspective of a rotating sphere.

Outside those restraints Einstein's constant c does not apply. Meaning there is no requirement for the speed of light to be constant, or limited in it's speed.

Einstein made no assertions as to the speed of light observed from a non rotating point in space outside the influence of a planet. That perspective is not even considered.

Quite correct, the speed of light through sodium at a temperature of near absolute zero is a mere 38 mph..

why cant we travel faster than light? Remember when they said we couldnt travel faster than 30mph, then we couldnt travel faster than sound, well personally i believe we can and will at some point in our future.
To be honest though, its still a slowass way of travelling long distances. And then theres the chance something might get in the way. I wouldnt fancy hitting a stone at the speed of light. The fastest way would i guess be interdimensional. You know, take a piece of string representing your journey and touch the two ends together, you step off one end and onto the other and blam, you are there

Perhaps these aliens you talk about havent cracked faster than light travel but only just upto lightspeed. That would explain why it would take for example, 30 lightyears distance from them to us, takes around 30 years to travel.
But then maybe 30 years to them is different to how we perceve it. A fly lives for about 24 hours. Whats one day to you and me? not a lot really. But to that fly its a whole lifetime. Same for them maybe?
Of course this is all stuff that goes on in my head. Take from it what you will!

reply to post by Malakai_UK


I have to agree with you here, even though I don't think they use propulsion for travel. We have no idea what kind of lifespans these critters have. The Giant Tortoise lives to about 177 years of age. To us that is an incredible number. Depending on medical technology and bio robotic technology it could be presumed that they could live much much longer than us. Lets just throw a number out there 500 years. You could do a lot with five lifetimes.