Critics Blast Obama's Scheduled Notre Dame Commencement Address

No come on, don't stop with child abuse and the crusades, bring up some more of your anti-catholic rhetoric. Maybe you feel deeply for all the witches that were suppossedly burned? Does your heart weep for the cathars? Are you sleepless at night because of Gallileo?

Like so many people who raise the child abuse issue alongside these other things you betray by demonstrating no real concern whatsoever for the victims only using their stories as another stick with which to beat an institution you know nothing about but wish to condemn because it challenges the comfortable relativism of this age.

But go ahead, comdemn the Church and its faithful for complaining about inviting an advocate of child murder and infanticide to speak at a Catholic institution, I'm sure child murder is ok in the "morality" of this age.

reply to post by Supercertari


Unless you know me personally or my own true story you should think twice before casting such dispersions. Luckily, I choose to be a "Survivor" not a "Victim"............so sticks and stones............

It's ironic how other's of your ilk on this site label everyone else as "sheeple" when referring to President Obama, and yet they are staunch defenders of their own form of organized religion. I can think of countless examples. Perhaps irony isn't a strong enough word. "Blasphemy" and "hypocrite" seem more apropos.

I can now see this veiled guise for what it is.......Illuminating, Thanks.

Note to mods: Here is the line I've yet to cross. I'm really trying.

_____________________________________________________

Sincerely.........KK


[edit on 25-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
I think it is more of a shame when he Church gets in bed with........altar boys.

You do know that less than one tenth of one percent of priests were involved in the scandel, right?

You do know that children are more likely to be abused in public schools then in Catholic Churches, right?

You do know that the very, very few perps in the Catholic church were pedophiles before they became priests. Pedophiles find hunting grounds to prey in and they see rich hunting grounds in ALL schools and churches.

Golly, some folks on this site can be a self-righteous bunch.

Golly, some folks on this site can spew ignorance pretty quickly.

Originally posted by donwhite
IF Notre Dame is a great university, and it is, then it must have an open mind and it must discourse with those it disagrees with.

Uh .. no donwhite. The only thing the university MUST do is follow Catholic teaching. Otherwise it is no longer a Catholic University.

reply to post by kinda kurious


My post did not claim to represent any knowledge of your personal story. I think you're confusing my post with your own in which you presumed to suppose:

you were never an altar boy or "served" by your local priest.

I have made no such suppositions about your own life story. I have however highlighted the strange habit of those who spring into threads discussing catholicism with their "altar-boy" euphemisms and insults that they soon follow it up blabbering some gibberish about the Crusades etc. I wonder if all those people have really any genuine concern for the victims and if they trully extend that compassion to the other victims of these historical events they then bring up? Or are they just a handy blunt instrument with which to beat an institution they fear and do not understand?

You decide to further suppose I belong to a certain ilk of people - I do not use the word "sheeple" - Oama supporters are more calculated than any herd of sheep, following their leader happilly into the "freedom" of enslavement to the whims and fancies of passing fashion, tossing aside the lives that get in their way - from conception to natural death.

For blasphemy and hypocrisy have a look at the Capitol building on the day of Obama's inaugeration where he placed his hand on a bible and swore an oath to preserve, protect and defend and promised the nation to speak for the voiceless.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You do know that less than one tenth of one percent of priests were involved in the scandel, right?

Heavens, what a small and insignificant percentile.

Once again just "drive-by" snarky quips without fact.

Please read up:

GOLETA, Calif. — For more than two decades, Roman Catholic priests sexually abused boys aged 7 -to 16 at a boarding school in a Santa Barbara seminary, a panel organized by a Franciscan order concluded. A board of inquiry for the St. Barbara Province of the Francis­can Order said Monday that 12 priests engaged in nude games, fondling and other sex acts with students at St. Anthony's Semi­nary from 1964 to 1987, when it closed because of financial prob­lems. So far, 34 boys, mostly teenag­ers, have been identified as vic­tims.

skeptically.org...

OK that was 1993, so they are now between 23 & 32 years old. Think they are growing up "normal" and still Catholic?

Today pedophiles and other sexual predators appear to be empowered. One reason for this growing epidemic is, I believe, that criminals saw for at least the past 50 years the Catholic Church - which you’d expect to be a moral leader - harboring serial pedophiles and covering their felonies. Believe me other pedophiles saw what was going on in the Catholic Church, saw the bishops continue to let priests get away with sex crimes against children, and the pedophiles became empowered.

When you have priests raping children, not only do you create thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of people who grow up to become adults with sex problems, but a number of those pedophile priest crime victims could end up being sexual predators themselves.

www.examiner.com...

And the best for last.............. ( Please Note Source.)

L.A. Archdiocese reaches agreement with more than 500 abuse claimants.....LOS ANGELES (CNS) -- The Los Angeles Archdiocese July 15 announced the largest church settlement of sexual abuse lawsuits to date, agreeing to pay more than 500 alleged victims a total of $660 million.

www.americancatholic.org...


Wow, that'll put a dent in the collection plate.

If "only" 500 came forward, I wonder if there might have been others who did not. Fraught with some of that good ole' fashioned "shame" you so easily like to cast about.

500 acknowledged victims = small percentage? And you were saying?

Hugs............KK


[edit on 25-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


The St Barbara Province of the Fransiscan Order should be comended for launching the investigation as far back as 1993. A nice demonstration of how the Church herself has tried to deal with this cancer of society in a manner other secular institutions would be served well if they followed. The source from which you drew this article deserves no credit as right from the outset it decides to equate child-abuse with homosexuality: what of the female victims of abuse in homes, colleges, youth organisations throughout the land are they somehow excluded from concern?

I reject utterly the implication that those who have suffered abuse cannot grow up "normal" and/or "Catholic"

Your quotations from the examiner article, suggesting a causal link between child abuse in the Church and in the broader society is speculative at best and vengeful at worst. What utter nonsense. The lack of concern for the victims of abuse by those who are motivated by a hatred for the Church is plain to see in the author's suggestion that those abused by priests are more likely to become abusers themselves - nice care for them there. Whilst abusers often have been abused, the claim that the abused often become abusers is a distortion of that equation which causes further suffering to those who have been abused - appalling.

I personally hope that the Church accepts whatever penalties are imposed upon it in restitution for these crimes - and I appreciate that the Holy Father has apologized repeatedly for these crimes.

Have any of the abortion advocates apologized yet or offered restitution for the lives they have abused ad nihilo?

Originally posted by Supercertari
I reject utterly the implication that those who have suffered abuse cannot grow up "normal" and/or "Catholic"

It is obvious from your responses, almost as if by rote, that you are truly blind to the severe and far reaching implications of the hardship, suffering and pain caused by an organization whose purpose would seemingly be just the opposite. It is clear you can't truly understand the plight of those who've had their youth stolen from them. Their hopes and dreams. Normal.....yeah right.

I can spot insincerity and false empathy a mile away.

Funny how those who wear robes and pointed hats and parade around crosses share such similar views. It matters not whether the crosses are aflame. Bigots are still bigots.

(But hey, your Avatar has a cross in one claw and a bomb in the other.)

I'll close with another prayer:

"Bless this sacred broom as we sweep our misdeeds under the rug of righteousness."

Sincerely......KK

[edit on 25-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Once again just "drive-by" snarky quips without fact.

Uh ... no.

Information here

Those accused

The Report found accusations against 4,392 priests in the USA, about 4% of all priests

Those guilty -

In 2008, the Church asserted that the scandal was a very serious problem and estimated that it was "probably caused by 'no more than 1 per cent' (or 5,000) of the over 500,000 Roman Catholic priests worldwide.

Sex Abuse in LA Schools
Public School Coverup
Skirting around sexual abuse in public schools
Washington Post - Sexual Abuse in Public Schools
Sex abuse in Protestant Churches
Partial list of protestant ministers who sexually abused people
catholic bashing and pedophile priests

An objective analysis of the situation suggests, first, that the Catholic church is no worse than others when it comes to the incidence of child molesters in its ranks. .... the percentage of abusers among Catholic priests is no higher than among Protestant ministers.

Book info here - Pedophiles and Priests (Anatomy of a Contemporary Crisis) by Philip Jenkins (Oxford University Press, New York, 1996) 214 pp -

How widespread is pedophilia among priests? Commentators have suggested between 5 and 10 percent. That figure has been presented by various "experts" and widely used by the media. However, true pedophilia--sexual contact between an adult and pre-pubescent child--is extremely rare in the priesthood. The best estimate is "0.3 percent of the whole body of clergy." (p 82) The most extensive study which considered 2,252 priests over a thirty year period found only one case of pedophilia. It involved a priest-uncle with two six-year-old nieces. The number of pederasts or ephebophiles (priests involved, usually homosexually, with an adolescent minor) was much larger, but still less than two percent.

The myth of the pedophile priest - %1.8 of clergy involved in pedophilia. Much lower then the general public schools and not any higher then protestant churches.

Sex abuse scams spectrum of churches
Protestant Churches and sex abuse - as reported by insurance companies

Sex Abuse by Teachers worse then Catholic Church

According to a draft report commissioned by the U.S. Department of Education, in compliance with the 2002 "No Child Left Behind" act signed into law by President Bush, between 6 percent and 10 percent of public school children across the country have been sexually abused or harassed by school employees and teachers.

To support her contention, Shakeshaft compared the priest abuse data with data collected in a national survey for the American Association of University Women Educational Foundation in 2000. Extrapolating data from the latter, she estimated roughly 290,000 students experienced some sort of physical sexual abuse by a school employee from a single decade—1991-2000. That compares with about five decades of cases of abusive priests.

Such figures led her to contend "the physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

ALL THE INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE AND EASY TO FIND.
GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. THERE IS MORE OUT THERE.

Originally posted by kinda kurious
Bigots are still bigots.

Yes .... looked in the mirror lately?



[edit on 3/26/2009 by FlyersFan]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Actually the llinks DO support what I said - that the percentage of priests who were guilty of pedophilia is small - smaller then the problems in public schools and not any larger then the problems in protestant churches.

As for the rest of your post - it's all off topic and personal insults and against T&C. And that part about me casting 'shame'... that's bizarre and

[edit on 3/26/2009 by FlyersFan]

Just a simple reminder to Stay On Topic here everyone.

Let's discuss the topic....not each other.

Here is the title in case anyone has forgotten..

"Critics Blast Obama's Scheduled Notre Dame Commencement Address"

Also a friendly reminder

Post that address another member and not the topic, will be removed and the member possibly warned.

Post that are off topic, will be removed and the member possibly warned.

Snide comment will be warned.

Insults will be warned.

You can read all about it here: Terms and Conditions

Fair Warning

Semper

As I said - The Catholic Church is VERY clear about not having culture of deathers given a place of honor in Catholic institutions.

'Culture of death' is the term used by the Catholic Church and other prolife groups when referring to those who approve of abortion. It's a well known and accepted term. Just as pro-life or pro-choice are accepted terms.

Obama is a 'culture of deather'. He not only favors abortion, but he is in a position of power to push for abortion 'rights' for those commiting abortions.

Notre Dame is a Catholic school. It must follow Catholic guidelines or else it can no longer be called a Catholic school. One of those guidelines by the Catholic church is that it can not give a platform to abortionists. Obama never should have been invited to begin with.

If Notre Dame wants Obama, then it needs to take the 'catholic' shingle down off the name of the school.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
As for the rest of your post - it's all off topic and personal insults and against T&C. And that part about me casting 'shame'... that's bizarre

[edit on 3/26/2009 by FlyersFan]

Really? Did you not post this below?:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
The Catholic Church is VERY clear about not having culture of deathers given a place of honor in Catholic institutions.

Shame on Notre Dame.

Just curious. Fair Question Within T & C?

Back OT:
Yet comments like this are OK? "Obama is a 'culture of deather'. "
It is OK to say this of our President?

Kind Regards........KK


[edit on 26-3-2009 by kinda kurious]

reply to post by kinda kurious


Well worse has been said of President Bush.

I don't recall an uproar about it from you though.

Carry on.

I say all those who signed the petition do this....when Obama gets up to speak, they all stand up and walk out

Im with FF on this....he never should have been invited, since his views have always been known.

reply to post by kinda kurious

. . other's of your ilk on this site label everyone else as "sheeple" when referring to President Obama, and yet they are staunch defenders of their own form of organized religion. I can think of countless examples. Perhaps irony isn't a strong enough word.

Put me down with agreeing 100% with your keen observations, Mr K/K.

I predict President Obama and Notre Dame University will long outlive the infantile parochial mentality exhibited here. And that to the country’s betterment!

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by kinda kurious

 

Actually the llinks DO support what I said - that the percentage of priests who were guilty of pedophilia is small - smaller then the problems in public schools and not any larger then the problems in protestant churches.

I am not suggesting you are in any way defending such rephrehensible behavior by implying that it is "par for the course" as compared with other forms of organized religion or shools. But it seems to me that you are attempting to minimalize it. ( By citing your apologist "Priest : Pedophile" ratio statistics.) Attempting to make it appear as a "tolerated nuisance" and trivialing the horriffic nature of the abuse by relying on skewed statistcs. It insults by attempting to discredit the trauma, guilt and "shame" endured by those who suffered it. ( And I'm not playing any "cards" here as you like to say.) Except perhaps the truth card.


Back OT:
What I am saying is that those who are quick to label Obama suporters as "blind loyalists" would do well to re-evaluate their own beliefs regarding organized religion. Pot calling kettle black as it were.

And for the record, I was not the one who brought up the Catholic Church in the first place. Or shall I dig up some more of your contradicting quotes? ( Still waiting for a rebuttal on the last ones.)

DENY IGNORANTS.

Big Hugs........KK

[edit on 27-3-2009 by kinda kurious]