Iran sets terms for U.S. ties

Originally posted by teklordz
reply to post by UmbraSumus

 

yes indeed, it's just business. Dangerous business, but business... But i still think that the memory of the race, both from the US side and the Iran side is a major obstacle. We live according to past events, we base our decision on the past, that is why history has a tendency to repeat itself...

I hear what your saying .

Every year , every nation humps 12 more months of history upon their shoulders .
A lot of peoples understanding of "its history with Iran" begin with the hostage crisis ...... with the absent preceding years crucial in understanding the particular dynamic.

Every now and again i forget my cynicism ....... its quite a holiday .

Originally posted by finemanm

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
It was Jimmy Carter spearheading laws through congress that limited the powers of the CIA abroad that led to a mass recall of CIA agents from the Middle East that ultimately not only destabilized and left the Shaw’s regime vulnerable but American interests in place like Beirut Lebanon that would eventually lead to even more U.S. embarrassment and frustration in the region, beyond and after a student led rebellion in Iran seized the American Embassy and sent the Shaw and the Savak fleeing into exile.

I completely agree that Jimmy Carter is one of the most ineffective presidents that this country ever had, and I have been telling my friends that 9/11 isn't Clinton's fault or Bush's fault, but Carter's fault for weaking the US in the middle east in the '70's.

But now you have a president that is VERY Carter like in his approach to foreign policy. Not saying that Bush was doing the right thing, but Obama is not going to get the Iranians to the table with this nonsense. I honestly don't know what would get Iran to open an honest dialoge with the US, and stop funding international terrorism.

Probably because no one has had the courage to tell you or you were capable of accepting that the only thing that is going to stop any Islamic nation from viewing the United States as a threat is for the United States to step out of the way and stop blocking every attempt by the U.N. with the U.S. Veto in the Security Council to implement constantly stymied and thwarted efforts by the almost total majority of the International Community through the U.N. to force both Israel and the Palestinians to accept a real equitably negotiated peace by employing sanctions and penalties on both sides instead of just one side to finally get the job done after 70 years of Israel doing everything to defeat the process.

These people are upset for a reason, not because their wives are PMsing and they dropped vinegar in their Post Toasties.

As far as 9-11 not one suspect has been charged, brought into an actual American Court of Law, let alone have evidence presented publicly through full and proper legal disclosure, to a jury of 12 honest average Americans to decide what exactly happened that day and who is really guilty of what, when and where. It was instead tried in the court of public oppinion through the mass media, through controlled releases of government selected information. Meanwhile the detainees in Quantanomo most of the time aren't even allowed to talk to a lawyer, let alone a free and independent press.

The biggest crime in American History doesn't deserve a trial at least even in Absentia, even though our Consitutional form of Government, demands the Judicial Branch decide such matters?

That doesn't strike you as odd, when the supposedly guilty, who don't like us because our unwavering bias towards Israel, like Israel itself and their people all come from a region of the world, where the enemy of my enemy is my friend?

Israel had just as many reasons to possibly be involved in 9-11 that we blamed on 19 Saudis but bombed and invaded Afghanistan for? Even though the Taliban itself had nothing to do with the attack, and would hand Bin Laden over if they United States would supply evidence that Bin Laden was responsible for the attacks.

Despite spending trillions of dollars and loosing thousands of more American lives in the process, not only have we killed hundreds of thousands, we managed to build a pesky oil pipeline for Royal Dutch Shell across the country, that the Taliban wouldn't agree to, and managed to increase Afghanistan's opium production 90 fold?

Way to go home team! Now if we just ever knew where they were really going and why?

I have never known an Arab or Muslim to renig on a promise or a contract in a fair business deal. They are about as honrable and decent as any human you could expect to cross. They are alright in my book, and I think we foolishly give them a bad shake, simply because their markets aren't as profitible for us to trade with. Which is kind of why we just sit back and let Africa starve and butcher each other, because there is just no money there for our Corporations to make.

Money drives the beast, not, truth, not justice, not fairplay, and unfortunately all too often it is the American way, but not the America our forefathers ever intended for it to be.

As far as I know, correct me if I am wrong please, the Bush Administration offered to fully acknowledge, fund and expand Iranians Nuclear Program under full UN oversight, correct??? If the Iranian leaders agreed to allow the U.S to have partial ownership and be under constant IAEA watch.. the world wouldn't see the harm in Iran having it's own reactor for energy and allow so to be done but...

They cannot be trusted.

I just think in this day and age to have such leaders rule a country the way they do and openly support terrorism, against Israel anyways, to say they have a god given right to do as they please and create nuclear technology.... It' a crock. No, you do NOT have the right to Nuclear Technology. There are rules, regulations and world laws against such acts for a reason...

What reasons? Step back and look at yourself Iran on the world stage and you might seen.

Sit down, smoke a #in' joint amadinajunkie with Obama and settle # the old fashion way. I bet you'd have a lot in common... As do both Iran and the U.S..

Know why? Because we are all human... we all start our day by opening our eyes and wishing for 5 more minutes in bed... we should all really try to get along.

reply to post by xbranscombex

to say they have a god given right to do as they please and create nuclear technology.... It' a crock. No, you do NOT have the right to Nuclear Technology.

So what gave America the right to start the Manhattan project during WW2?
Why was the US allowed to be the forerunner into Nuclear energy production?

What gives Israel the right to have Nuclear weapons? A state engaged in a constant state of warfare, who have openly admitted to contemplating first-strike use of Nuclear weapons under certain conditions?

I could go on and list Pakistan, India, and the fact they've threatened their use as well, etc... but you get the idea. Or should anyway.

Every country has the right to peaceful nuclear production.

That's in the IAEA's official charter.

America is in absolutely no position whatsoever to mandate which countries may and may not have access to Nuclear energy production capacity.

America developed it's first Nuclear reactors SOLELY for offensive purposes against Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan.

America has the largest stockpile of Nuclear weapons in the world and here it is, trying to lecture Iran, a nation who has never used nuclear weapons, nor threatened their use, nor instigated a conflict in the last century, on the dangers of "Nuclear Proliferation".

Absolute hypocrisy. Iran DOES have the right to Nuclear Energy.
As does anyone else in the world.

There are rules, regulations and world laws against such acts for a reason...

So far, Iran has not been conclusively shown to be in breach of any of them. The NPT treaty, enriching Uranium to weapons grade, and actively hiding or underreporting fissile material.

The IAEA have inspected Iran's facilities multiple times and given them the green light:

Iran has accumulated 839 kg of low-enriched uranium verified by inspectors and told the IAEA this month it had added another 171 kg.

Nuclear analysts estimate anywhere from 1,000 to 1,700 kg would be needed as a basis for conversion into high-enriched uranium suitable for one bomb, if Iran so chose.

english.aljazeera.net...

The White House accused Iran of reneging on its international obligations, and called the nation an “urgent problem that has to be addressed.”

Not so, says the International Atomic Enegy Agency (IAEA), which said the discrepancy between the reported and actual figures were “inherent in the early commissioning phases of such a facility when it is not known in advance how it will perform in practice.”

news.antiwar.com...

"They're not close to a stockpile, they're not close to a weapon at this point,"

uk.reuters.com...

Despite the attention being paid to claims that Iran has enough uranium to hypothetically build a nuclear weapon, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) says that Iran is “not there yet” as far as the capability of making weapons is concerned.

Iran has enriched 1,010 kilograms of uranium hexaflouride to the low levels needed for the Bushehr nuclear power plant which is approaching operation. Some say this would be sufficient to make a weapon, however the IAEA has continued to verify that none of it has been diverted to any other use.

news.antiwar.com...

DUBAI: Iran has not converted the low-grade uranium that it has produced into weapon-grade uranium, inspectors belonging to the International Atomic Energy Agency have said.

The Austrian Press Agency quoted an IAEA expert as saying that the uranium substances that Iran has produced at its Natanz enrichment facility have been carefully recorded and remote cameras have been installed to supervise part of the stockpile.

www.hinduonnet.com...

The only people saying otherwise were the Bush Admin & Republicans, in their concerted smear campaign against Iran, but never proffered any proof whatsoever.

What reasons? Step back and look at yourself Iran on the world stage and you might seen.

Better yet, step back and put yourself in Iran's shoes and you might get an idea about why they'd be concerned about their national security being threatened by the US:



And why they're not trusting of the same people who outright lied and said Iraq was developing WMD's.

Yeah, Iran really has no reason not to trust America's accusations.

[edit on 23/3/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


a small and minor detail - the SHAH evicted the legitimate government by force of arms - the free elections voted the SHAH out as the people were sick of his SAVAK

Opeartion AJAX saw the USA and UK use teh army to remove the democratically elected leader and reinstall there puppet.

its was in 1979 that once again the people had enough and threw him out.

The whole world seems to be collapsing because of manipulations from the few elites that aim for total world domination. The US is slowly starting to regress as far as a superpower, and the reason for that is, as everyone knows the state of our world economy.
The money is the root cause for our problems on this planet of ours. Remove money from the equation, and you're on the path to a much better world.
Power of humans over other humans is a crime against humanity.