RAF Burtonwood. An underground city?

a reply to: LogicalGraphitti

Yes we were taught about ww2 cheers, and probably from a slightly different perspective. I have an issue with the idea of US sovereignty on UK soil now, given that we're not technically supposed to be in a war now, and the facility that I was referring to was set up in the 50's rather than ww2 and continues to operate. There may be Cold War implications, but I find it rather sinister, especially if you see it with its big weird golf ball things - looks like something straight out of sci fi and is very striking.

To mcellis123 really interesting story. Nice to think of foreign powers using the UK to store their dangerous weapons

Interesting thread. I was lucky enough to work at USAF Burtonwood, around 2002-04ish, just before it was demolished and became a housing estate. At that time, the single remaining warehouse was split into sections, (BA, BB, BC, BD and so on). Each section was walled off but had access to each other by a single roller door in the centre of each wall. In my memory I believe each section was about the size of a football pitch, but in reality they were probably a little smaller than that, but still being very big.

Now I was about 18/19 and worked as an FLT driver for a storage and distribution company. I can't remember exactly but I think the sections my company had were BE, BI and BJ, and they formed an L shape, BE and BI were behind each other and BJ was to the left of BI as you walked towards the back.

During my time there, which was approximately 18 months, twice we were told to leave the building, everybody including bosses and owners, stop working and stand in the car park while a group of about 15-20 men, some in suits and some in military uniform went inside for about 30 minutes, before coming back out and going in the next sections along, where the same would happen to them, everyone out, before they went in. I have no idea what they did once inside, but they didn't want anyone seeing.

Now regarding underground facilities and tunnels underneath the warehouses, In the BI section, the was an area of floor covered in newer concrete compared to the rest of the floor, which I believe was the original concrete. This newer concrete was around 10 x 10 meters square, but what always interested me was a large sign that had been painted on the wall behind it, in Red and white paint, which had flaked away quite badly from the brick work, but still clearly read "Max limit 8 tonnes". Make of that what you will, but in my mind, that newer patch of concrete was once a lift shaft of some kind, which could only go down.

Something else of interest, in the last couple of weeks I worked there, the company also leased out what I think was Section BL or BM, which was odd as we had to drive the FLT's out the door of BJ, down the road and then in to BL or BM, as they wasn't joined by an internal door, but the section or sections in between were empty and not in use. Inside either BL or BM, I can't remember which it was, there was a small brick building, about 10 x 20ft and about 10ft high, built within the warehouse. It had an iron gate which was locked, and it also had a thick steel door inside the gate, that had a combination lock dial on the front, and a massive keyhole next to the handle. I have no idea what purpose this little building has, but I always thought it was strange.

Now fast forward a few years, and Im working for a Piling company, and Burtonwood Airbase comes up in conversation, and in turn underground cities and tunnels. Now from an engineering point of view it is near impossible for any kind of underground structure to exist now that houses are now built on that site. The initial problem, when creating this underground space, what did they do with the earth they dug out?, Ive heard there is a city down there, and a rail tunnel that stretches to Liverpool Docks, about 16 miles I believe. Either of those structures would create a massive amount of excess earth that would need to go somewhere, and there really isn't anywhere you could say is a spoil heap for quite a distance.

Something else to consider is, the whole site is now a housing estate, complete with a supermarket and a popular pub, now would you be able to build so many houses and buildings on what would have to be a supported empty space below, especially when you consider quite a lot of the buildings are 3 story, which require deeper foundations to be built on, and we are talking around 3-4 meters deep, possibly deeper. Also when people have bought houses on the site, any survey provided by the building company would have to have underground workings listed, so it wouldn't be such a secret anyway.

Also 1 last thing about the Rail tunnel to Liverpool, why would you spend a fortune building a tunnel to Liverpool Docks, and then secretly hide the spoil, when there is already an above ground rail line, that goes directly into the site anyway?

So do I believe there was underground workings underneath USAF Burtonwood, yes I do, but they wasn't particularly deep, or big. 1 story below ground sounds plausible, but underground city, nope I doubt it, Underground rail tunnel to Liverpool, definitely not. Also there is no evidence at all to suggest Nuclear Weapons were ever stored at Burtonwood. I don't believe Burtonwood had the facilities to store them as it was basically a maintenance and warehousing depot.

a reply to: tom83

Thanks for the contribution Tom,

you may have seen this already but if not ....
www.28dayslater.co.uk...

there have been a few investigations done over the years and there seems to be little proof or data of any large underground facility or even a tunnel at Burtonwood.
during my own research for a cold war infrastructure book I co-researched a few years back we found nothing at all about Burtonwood other than the usual shelters and bunkers....and a very rare pop - up pill box.
you are probaly correct with your theory about a lift /platform as I/we have seen similar inside a few other hangers in Lincolnshire .

people looking back now are shocked that some of the USAF / UK bases that held nuke materials during the cold war didnt have deep bunkers, but there are a few and some are still in use ;-)

thanks
snoopyuk

Hi! I moved to Huyton about a year ago and I found this thread thanks to google. I was recently asked to research the leprechauns of Liverpool but stumbled upon the history of the Crank caverns and had heard there were stories of three little men with white straggly hair in there. they were cannibals and eventually they were destroyed because of these creatures who allegedly were living in a candle lit cavern.

obviously I believe in that as much as the tooth fairy but i did wonder where and why those rumours were circulating. Was it merely to frighten people away from the area due to their use?

Also i saw reference here to the Caverns stretching to the docks and that the tunnel is 16 miles long. Well i think that could be a muddle around the Williamson tunnels which when measured end on end they cover 16 miles but they do not stretch in one direction for that amount of mileage. I think (?) each tunnel is around a mile long.

I'd be interested to hear about the myths surrounding the caverns if anyone can point me in the right direction.

a reply to: machinegun_go_go

I cannot Confirm or Deny the fact that there are underground tunnels under those bases.

I was stationed at RAFB Lakenheath for 3 years in the 90's and I do know of an entrance on Lakenheath that goes underground to a large underground tunnel system 'City' you are talking about.

a reply to: kerrichin

The Building in the Center is your entrance

Lakenheath

a reply to: Gideon70

My dad worked on the M62 Scammonden Dam. He told me that there was a DUMB under the dam. His brother was a master mason from Londonderry NI and when my dad got fired by his foreman. Mc Alpine came to our house and said I have sacked that foreman and you now can come back to work. I also recall seeing something on YTV many years ago about the fall out shelters under Halifax town center. They had six games rooms big enough to fit a dozen full size snooker tables in. Must be conected to the DUMB as it is just above Halifax on the M62.

I just came across this page explaining about the tunnels built under Liverpool. Built by Joseph Williamson between 1810-1840. He was a member of a sect that believed that the end of the world was about to happen, so he funded the building of these tunnels so that they would have a place to survive.


www.dailymail.co.uk...

During the early 1990's my company used to collect military vehicles from the underground storage facility at RAF Burtonwood. We used to recommission the vehicles and then decommission the vehicles using all new preservative fluids.

I've lived next to the facility all of my life. My uncle Gene was stationed there, where he met and married my aunt. My uncle stated that the facility was the largest underground building in Europe, even having its own rail head and train station. He also said that there was a super fortified section of the facility, that stored nuclear weapons.

I know for certain that there were a number of complete battlefield hospitals, all types of military vehicles, and aircraft, that were mothballed for future use. I know this because my company used to tender for the various contracts that used to become available in relation to preserving and maintaining these vehicles. I went down 3 floors on one occasion, to price a special job. I was told that there were a lot more floors, but no specific number was mentioned,

Got no idea what has happened to this facility, but believe me, it would have been a monumental task to fill these wharehouses in. I would say almost impossible without people knowing about it, due to the sheer size of it.

Finally, the M62 was to be used as an emergency aircraft runway in times of national emergency. All the lighting fixtures were able to be lowered and there were no bridges or other obstructions for over 3 miles, making it one hell of an emergency runway.

Can't believe that there is very little information about RAF Burtonwood. It was the main American forces wharehouse for Western Europe.

originally posted by: Dionysiac
a reply to: kerrichin

The Building in the Center is your entrance

Lakenheath

really, i still go to mildenhall and lakenheath to watch the planes when i can, love those places.
i miss the airshow at mildenhall.
ive heard all sorts about lakenheath, like the stealth bomber and fighters being stations there and kept underground in the day time only being brought out at night, there being nukes at some point and the village/town underneath both bases.
they are meant to be closing mildenhall i hope not.

originally posted by: illuminnaughty
I just came across this page explaining about the tunnels built under Liverpool. Built by Joseph Williamson between 1810-1840. He was a member of a sect that believed that the end of the world was about to happen, so he funded the building of these tunnels so that they would have a place to survive.


www.dailymail.co.uk...

Strange/completely false article by the Mail I'd say. The Williamson tunnels have been well known for years, went to parties in them 10 years or so ago - they were never a secret as far as I'm aware, Williamson saw problems with local unemployment so paid people to construct his elaborate tunnel system, reducing poverty, crime etc..not heard anything of a secret sect.

There are plenty of secret bases, though UK security is so bad that they're listed in the yellow pages and on OS maps in 1974. There's certain road signs/motorway signs that give them away as well as underground oil pipeline markers. Places where phone signal vanishes are good signs too though not wise to actually visit any of these sites (even if publicly listed as closed down/no longer in use) as armed security ask what you're doing pretty quick.

ive also heard of secret tunnels under the frizwilliam museum in cambridge too

originally posted by: GeneGibson59

Can't believe that there is very little information about RAF Burtonwood. It was the main American forces wharehouse for Western Europe.

i think that your above statement may be more poignant than you think, ;-)
zero info availble ,and nobody is talking about it being filled in or such like. ...

Hi Gene. Do you still currently live In Warrington. Thanks. Sean. a reply to: GeneGibson59