Naked Agression

Naked Agression

www.economist.com

With an Impeccable sense of timing

A RETIRED Chinese admiral likened the American navy to a man with a criminal record “wandering just outside the gate of a family home”. The Chinese, said America’s national intelligence director, Dennis Blair, had “become more aggressive” in asserting their maritime claims. Just as the two countries prepare for their presidents to meet, bickering has broken out. It is unclear whether it is over some silly local muscle-flexing, or a deliberately engineered provocation.

It would all sound familiar to George Bush, who faced a similar spat with China soon after becoming president eight years ago. Then, as now, the argument is about American military activity in China’s vicinity. For Mr Bush, the mid-air collision of a Chinese fighter with an American spy plane in April 2001 became the first foreign-policy crisis of his presidency. For President Obama, a stand-off in the South China Sea between an American naval ship and five Chinese vessels is not such an emergency. In 2001, a Chinese pilot died and the 24 members of the spy plane’s crew were held for 11 days. No one was killed or captured this time.

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Here you will find the only map i have been able to find anywhere indicating the boundary of the Chinese Exclusive Economic Zone into the South China Sea PLUS the additional immense maritime boundary claimed by China which engulfs the Paracel Islands, the Spratly Islands (where known oil and natural gas reserves lie) ; and almost touches the coastlines of the Phillipines AND Malaysia. So...given that the rest of the world is supposed to roll-over and accept whatever the Chinese claim as their territorial waters, how in the h**l was anybody supposed to even know where that was until now? I mean, how did "The Economist" even find this map? It is nowhere else I can find on the web.

www.economist.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Originally posted by Evkha
I mean, how did "The Economist" even find this map? It is nowhere else I can find on the web.

Try Wikipedia.

As you can see there, this is nothing new, just ignored.

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by Evkha
I mean, how did "The Economist" even find this map? It is nowhere else I can find on the web.

Try Wikipedia.

As you can see there, this is nothing new, just ignored.

One thing I can see is that there is nothing to correct you about in adding detail to the confusion about who lays claim to what, and who does not, and who does, but is disputed by others.

I however added in the beginning reference in this thread what I thought was the most relevant Wikipedia article on the Special Economic Zones of the People's Republic of China

It has nothing about the maritime boundaries the Chinese claimed after they buzzed the USNS Impeccable 5 times in what the UN considers International waters. Your Wikipedia reference on the Islands around the Spratley Islands does not either. Probably somebody will write a new Wikipedia article about the maritime boundaries of the South China Sea after this settles down. But for now, I am afraid you have yet to show an online reference that predates the map in "The Economist" that shows (graphically) the parts of the South China Sea that The People's Republic of China has claimed after the fact of the move they have made to Challenge Obama.

Yeah, yeah the Yuan Dynasty, the Manchu Dynasty, etc. Did you know that the maps that were drawn for the Manchu's were done by Jesuit priests? Don't you remember that the Vietnamese fought over two centuries for independence from the Chinese? Don't you remember that Ho Chi Minh's first choice for assistance in liberating his country from foreign occupation was asking for help from US President Harry Truman, who's poor insight into the situation was one of the milestones along the way to the mess we are in now?

Well, I can tell we may not be able to play well together already.

Look, here is a recent article from the former President of the Philippines about the region we are talking about. Don't try to pin his opinions on me for citing him OK? I wince every time I hear about "Free Trade" Areas because they are always bad news for working class people and always about big time Capitalists/Neo-Communists plans for fun and profit with no concern for the ecosystems they exploit.

It is time for people to stop aligning their consciousness' with the politics of any regime, my friend.

Meanwhile, Chinese Foreign Affairs Minister, Yang Jiechi was not satisfied speaking with Hillary Clinton about the issue. In fact, by Chinese standards, it was most certainly an insult to send a woman on such an important matter.

So now, President Obama will have to lose face by not speaking to Hu Jintou about it until the G-20 meets in another month after the crisis. The US President will be relegated to speaking with Minister Yang during the immediate crisis Call it what you like, the US has already lost face!

Barrack shoulda sent Joe. International faux pas number one for Obama.

But what do I know? I am also a mere female myself.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by Evkha]

reply to post by Evkha


Oh, I forgot, The Japanese tried to drill an offshore oil rig in the South China Sea within the last decade, but they were forced to abandon the effort by Chinese gun ships. If I find an article to support it, I'll post it, because I do think that is relevant, if I don't get bored with this whole mess and just yank the wires out of the back of my computer and spend the rest of my spare time gardening, that is.

Originally posted by Evkha
But for now, I am afraid you have yet to show an online reference that predates the map in "The Economist" that shows (graphically) the parts of the South China Sea that The People's Republic of China has claimed after the fact of the move they have made to Challenge Obama.

That was on a different Wikipedia article, I forgot that it was a different one and posted only that, this shows a map that I think shows the same area.

And as you can see it was added to Wikipedia on 4 May 2008.

Yeah, yeah the Yuan Dynasty, the Manchu Dynasty, etc. Did you know that the maps that were drawn for the Manchu's were done by Jesuit priests? Don't you remember that the Vietnamese fought over two centuries for independence from the Chinese? Don't you remember that Ho Chi Minh's first choice for assistance in liberating his country from foreign occupation was asking for help from US President Harry Truman, who's poor insight into the situation was one of the milestones along the way to the mess we are in now?

I remember all that, why?

Look, here is a recent article from the former President of the Philippines about the region we are talking about. Don't try to pin his opinions on me for citing him OK?

Why should I do that?

I wince every time I hear about "Free Trade" Areas because they are always bad news for working class people and always about big time Capitalists/Neo-Communists plans for fun and profit with no concern for the ecosystems they exploit.

The problem is they do not even need free trade areas, they can do what they want regardless of the name, after all, they have been doing it for more than a century.

In fact, by Chinese standards, it was most certainly an insult to send a woman on such an important matter.

That I do not know, I am not aware of what are the Chinese standards on that subject.

The US President will be relegated to speaking with Minister Yang during the immediate crisis[/url] Call it what you like, the US has already lost face!

I think so myself, but that was to be expected, the Chinese have the stronger position on this.

But what do I know? I am also a mere female myself.

And why should that be a problem? Knowledge depends on those that gather it, regardless of sex, age, race, etc. I am sure you have a much better knowledge about this situation than myself, I was only trying to show that this is nothing new (the dispute over the Spratly Islands has been always about access to those waters).

The Chinese would not be insulted by sending the Secretary of State to speak with them, even if it happens to be a Female. Perhaps the Arab states might be insulted, but the Chinese are more pragmatic.

I saw no Naked Aggression as all the sailors were in uniform, or otherwise covered up.

This is all a push me pull you game that is played out across the globe. Not that big of a deal. Just a little sand box rivalry. The US is Chinas most important trading partner. We spy on them, they spy on us, and every once in a while there is a little shoving going on. The we go back to buying stuff at Wal*mart and everyone is happy again.

Originally posted by Evkha
A RETIRED Chinese admiral likened the American navy to a man with a criminal record “wandering just outside the gate of a family home”.

What an utterly fantastic description. I will remember this one!

Maybe if Americans could learn to stop hating themselves, it might help turn the tide. Because if Americans lead the way in hatred of Americans, how much easier it is for everyone else. I'm not saying that Americans don't need to also set an example of learning to live in harmony with nature and all indigenous life on the planet. This we must do, and we are certainly working on it, however fragmented with factions infighting and claiming to be more self righteous than others. We just need to do more of it and learn how to accept our own faults as we try to turn the tide. The passive sonar employed by the ship in question is of the kind we should encourage all Navy's to use as it is not harmful to sea life. If that was what the Chinese sailors were grappling at in their underwear, then why not sell it to them, or even have them manufacture it?

[edit on 3/26/0909 by BFO]