Theory of Western Religion

In my Ancient Civilizartions class this semester, the first ancient civilization we learned about was the one of the peoples of Mesopotamia, primarily the Sumerians (they would eventually become the Saudis, Iraqis, Iranis, Afghanis, etc). Their religion and culture was one based on myth, superstition, and make believe. There was very little logic or reason, if any, to explain the daily occurrences in their lives. Therefore, to control and explain events such as flooding, birth, and the cycles of the sun, divine beings (gods) were created. They had quite a few gods, not as many as the Greeks or Romans, but definitely more than five - basically a god for every event or rather gods that were in control of multiple events.

Now that you know the reasoning for the creation of the first recorded gods and the history of the first recorded civilization, think of the fact that three of the worlds major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam) came from the Middle East. Next, ask yourself this: "If these three religions came from the same place (but NOT the same time in history), then they probably 1) affected each other as time progressed, 2) had historic connections (people, places, etc.), and 3) were based on the same principals, right?� The answer is of course; it wouldn't follow that they wouldn't affect each other in some way. Now, they aren�t exactly the same: one example is the fact that Muslims (or is it Jews?) don't believe the Messiah has come yet, while Christians do. That is a MAJOR difference. However, my theory is not one pointing out the differences; it's one trying to make a connection. IF the major "western" religions are all related in some way, than one of the similarities I believe that exists between them is the reasoning for the creation of the gods in the first place - lack of logic, reasoning, and modern science. In other words, all three are based on myth.

There is also another connection: all three modern western religions (AND the ancient Sumerian religion) begin with a semi-divine martyr, a half mortal, half god (I'm not sure about Mohammed); Christianity (and Judaism?) has Jesus, Islam has Mohammed. This is not my main point though. About my main point, I myself am a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus; that is my faith. However, I also believe God never existed. Like the gods of the other religions, he was made up to explain the creation of the earth. On the other hand, that�s not to say I believe in evolution either. Furthermore, I believe the first book of the Old Testament of the Bible (Genesis) is a work of fiction (or, more specifically, exaggerated reality) while the first four books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) of the New Testament are about Jesus and his teachings (non-fiction, known truth). Remember, this is only MY theory. But if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense; the religions ARE similar and DO share a lot of reasoning. I hope I didn't offend anyone buy this, and I'm hoping for some counter-points.

Darwinistic? Atheist? What am I?

Let me guess; you learned that the Kemetians were pagan polytheists in that class too? :shk:

The Kemetians really knew that there is only ONE.

The Neteru of the Kemetic "pantheon", were used as metaphors to describe various principles and forces of nature.
The Greek gods are based on these Kemetic Neteru.

The Sumerian gods served a similiar purpose. Only the "profane" believed that these gods were riding clouds and throwing lightning bolts from them.

Then there's always the theory that these 'gods'(Anunnaki/Elohim/Neteru/etc.) are based on people or aliens who actually lived; but I don't put much stock in those theories.....




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Originally posted by MatthewR1985

About my main point, I myself am a Christian. I believe in God and Jesus; that is my faith. However, I also believe God never existed. Like the gods of the other religions, he was made up to explain the creation of the earth. On the other hand, that�s not to say I believe in evolution either. Furthermore, I believe the first book of the Old Testament of the Bible (Genesis) is a work of fiction (or, more specifically, exaggerated reality) while the first four books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John) of the New Testament are about Jesus and his teachings (non-fiction, known truth). Remember, this is only MY theory. But if you think about it, it makes a lot of sense; the religions ARE similar and DO share a lot of reasoning. I hope I didn't offend anyone buy this, and I'm hoping for some counter-points.

Darwinistic? Atheist? What am I?

Ok, let me see if I completely understand this. You believe in God and Jesus, but you believe god never existed at the same time?

Yes, exactly. I'm basically trying to say faith is believing in the non-existant. I believe in God (Christianity) but I don't believe he exists or ever existed. As for Jesus, I believe he existed becasue its in Roman record but I don't believe he was the son of God.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Uhhh huh.. I think for once I am with seapeople on this, that just doesn't make sense.

Originally posted by MatthewR1985
Yes, exactly. I'm basically trying to say faith is believing in the non-existant. I believe in God (Christianity) but I don't believe he exists or ever existed. As for Jesus, I believe he existed becasue its in Roman record but I don't believe he was the son of God.

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

[Edited on 19-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

Are nyou trying to confuse us??

Think of it this way:

The Greeks had Zeus; he was not a physical object - meaning NOT human, NOT a hovering ghostly spirit and NOT anything else. Basically, he did NOT exist. Perhaps there once was a man they based Zeus off of, but the Zeus we know, the Zeus they worshiped, was _created (aka made up)_ to explain the phenomna of everyday life. The only difference now being I'm not Greek, I'm American, and the god in question isn't Zeus, it's God.

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by MatthewR1985]

I for one like your process of thinking here MatthewR1985!! I too am somewhat confused on exactly what you mean with the 'God' doesn't exist, but does exist thing I think, I'm not sure, cause I do understand it a little....anyway....

The part about 'God' being used to 'explain' the 'unexplained' throughout history is correct. 'God' (of whatever flavor or style) doing stuff, little by little, is replaced by Laws of Nature, Science, Physics, etc. all the time. This doesn't 'Prove' or 'Dis-Prove' either side sufficiently however, since The Natural Laws of the Universe and Our Discoveries within Science, could in fact BE, because 'God' created them that way, time will tell. The fact that Science and Theology are always fighting is just stupid and arrogant. They both claim to be the Path to Universal Truth, so they should be comparing notes and theories instead of trying to pull rank over the other. But what can ya do, it's the ol' Human Condition/Evil Satan responsible for that monkey wrench in our progress again.

I'll keep from adding any more confusion to your ongoing theory for now. (The whole Original Belief becoming and/or changing into Popular Dogma of today, that is.) Personally I think you should explore the idea in more detail and gather some supporting data as well, in case someone asks for it, and to help form a clear picture yourself. I'm also not saying 'You're Correct', but I'm not saying 'You're Incorrect' either. I've explored ideas very similar to yours as well and will say that 'You may be on to something, that should be looked into deeper!! I look forward to hearing how your research develops!

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by mOjOm]

Ok, I have thought through my belief system: I believe there IS a God, but like Zeus, he is not something that you can see, touch, or feel - there isn't a guy up in heaven in flowing robes on a golden throne. He is just all around, as Christianity teaches. Jesus however, is a different story. I believe he is in heaven, and probably the first person you meet. I hope I unconfused some of you ...

Originally posted by MatthewR1985
Ok, I have thought through my belief system: I believe there IS a God, but like Zeus, he is not something that you can see, touch, or feel - there isn't a guy up in heaven in flowing robes on a golden throne. He is just all around, as Christianity teaches. Jesus however, is a different story. I believe he is in heaven, and probably the first person you meet. I hope I unconfused some of you ...

That does make much more sense. It's very general, which is usually best anyhow, but a whole lot easier to understand. God, IMO, is best thought of for most people and purposes as 'The Concept'. As in the Concept of all Concepts.

Some, or Many in fact, feel some need to place certain characteristic values and/or identifiable traits onto God. Personally I find that kind of silly or short-sighted, unless of course 'Their Idea of God' for some reason is contained within such limits and terms. But for anyone who thinks of God as Omni-(whatever), Timeless, Limitless, and so forth, it simply doesn't make sense. It just isn't logical or meaningful unless you were to radically change definitions of words and their meanings.

Right from the begining the whole idea is very shakey and unbelievable, because they are basically placing limits on something that they also claim is limitless. It's like trying to explain what a Square Circle is, or something similar where the terms used in the idea are contradictions of each other at all levels.

Now when it comes to Jesus, there is just about every possible version you could ever want to come across. I find it interesting though that Jesus is mentioned within other Religions that have nothing to do with Judeo-Christian, Islamic, Catholic, etc. type origins. Jesus is even well known within Buddhism and I've read of a few instances of him within the common Buddhist literature. (This of course would be the written records and stuff of those who came much later than the Original 'Noted' Buddha, who was born no where near the same era. Not that it would have mattered much probably, since he wasn't big on keeping written records and such in the first place.)

Radical changes of definitions is exactly what has happened over the years through ignorance or malice. Today we are just beginning to reinterpret the scriptures by using unadulterated documents such as the nag hammadi and Dead Sea scrolls.

The hang up here is your interpretation of "real".

Reality is the infinitude of the almighty.

Illusion is the impermanence of the physical world.

"Life" as we know it is death of the spirit.

When we "die" we are born into true existence.

Therefore God truly does not exist as a physical being but exists as the only true reality.

What we take for reality is the ultimate illusion nothing that we can experience with our bodily senses is �real�.

In the words of Christ
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe!

As for Jesus he lives within the hearts of believers as the archetype of compassion. He is risen indeed and lives in the hearts of men. Why wait for �death� to visit some mythological place to meet Jesus when he is available to you here and now.

The concept of heaven and hell believe it or not does not arise from Judaism but from Zoroastrian dualism. It really has no place in Christian belief. In the ancient days of Judaism everyone believed in reincarnation until perfection of the soul was achieved. (yes Jesus too was a jew and believed this) Heaven and hell were only magnified to their present place in recent times by the Catholic Church. (How else were they to control the masses?)

Originally posted by Tamahu
Let me guess; you learned that the Kemetians were pagan polytheists in that class too? :shk:

The Kemetians really knew that there is only ONE.

The Neteru of the Kemetic "pantheon", were used as metaphors to describe various principles and forces of nature.
The Greek gods are based on these Kemetic Neteru.

The Sumerian gods served a similiar purpose. Only the "profane" believed that these gods were riding clouds and throwing lightning bolts from them.

Then there's always the theory that these 'gods'(Anunnaki/Elohim/Neteru/etc.) are based on people or aliens who actually lived; but I don't put much stock in those theories.....




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I'd go further than your original statement mathew in thinking that all if not most religions had common roots springing from more pantheistic pagan interpretations, not just the western belief systems The ancient celts and germanic tribes also had various dieties that in essence were metaphors to help describe and frame the actions of the natural world, as well as believing in the transmigration of the soul or re-incarnation, old norse also has it's martyr god Odin, hung on a tree to suffer and achieve enlightenment or ressurection, similar to Christs. It's a pretty fair bet that the ethnic, pagan peoples of Europe practiced religions that have much in common with those beliefs and rites found in India, then their older beliefs were incorporated into the new religion, ie, Xtianity, influencing that too. One big international happy family when you get down to it.

I'd go further than your original statement mathew in thinking that all if not most religions had common roots springing from more pantheistic pagan interpretations, not just the western belief systems The ancient celts and germanic tribes also had various dieties that in essence were metaphors to help describe and frame the actions of the natural world, as well as believing in the transmigration of the soul or re-incarnation, old norse also has it's martyr god Odin, hung on a tree to suffer and achieve enlightenment or ressurection, similar to Christs. It's a pretty fair bet that the ethnic, pagan peoples of Europe practiced religions that have much in common with those beliefs and rites found in India, then their older beliefs were incorporated into the new religion, ie, Xtianity, influencing that too. One big international happy family when you get down to it.

I agree! These religions all sprang from the mystery cults prevalent in post egyptian times in greece and else where. Christianity was one of the first to offer its information to the common man. In all fairness I should also mention Mithrasism as it competed heavily with Christianity and almost won out. All Hail Mithras! Some how that just doesnt sound right. Anyway....
All this came to an abrupt end when the Romans took over the Christian faith in the 4th century and proceeded to wipe out the original christians (gnostics) and create the dogmatic heaven or hell church we all know and love. Constantine you killed Jesus.....You bastard!

lol^^^

Peep this link:

www.gnosis-usa.com...

Read where it says "We were thrown to the lions".




(BTW; that depiction of Kemet must be of a time during the Ptolemies reign. )




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