US warships head for South China Sea after standoff

(Speculation based on my limited knowledge of military issues. Please correct any inaccuracies).

I personally believe that world leaders still have enough common sense not to trigger mutually assured destruction, so I doubt nukes would be used as a preemptive strike. (by China or the US anyway) As retaliation, maybe.

I was reading an article a while back, and If I can find it again I'll link it, that suggested if a war broke out between the US and China, it would be far easier for China to punish America's Asian allies than try any kind of attacks against US soil.

That only makes me worry about the situation more. Wouldn't Australia stand out as a prime target?

As good as no Navy, an aging Airforce and total population probably smaller than China's military alone.

Like Japan did in WW2, they could just cruise around North of us and strike at will. Cities like Darwin would take a pounding (again).

I also read that China lacks much in the way of invasion transport. But could they possibly use ships / landing craft etc of an allied nation to reach us?

Why does China need to attack the US. Look around, most of our stuff already has their name all over it! Seems like you can't buy anything that doesn't say "Made In China." Why would they harm their best customer?

They have more than a trillion dollar investment in our government debt. I'm waiting for the Chinese government to show up and ask for the keys to the place.

It's alarming how globally interconnected the world seems to lately.

How easy is it for a sub to take out these carriers?

reply to post by guinnessford

Why cant we just all get along?

WE can all get along. It's our stupid, greedy, thug governments that like to mix things up. Tho I will admit- WE are the dimwits who keep voting them in.

[edit on 14-3-2009 by wylekat]

If I was the Chinese I would provoke a battle group to come out and then nuke it in the middle of the ocean. Then say... That 500bln taken care of where's the other 1.5 Trillion?

I sure hope that war isn't the solution to many problems the States have. Although if you look back in history, everytime the States have economic problems, the only solution to it is, WAR!

I am not so sure though about instigating China, as someone already mentioned, China has been a "secret military" nation for quite some time now. Just because they don't show it, doesn't mean they don't have it.

How many Underground Submarine bases do you know China have? What else are they hiding?
I think if instigated they will respond back with a few surprises, and does not taking into acount other nations backing them up, especially when going against the States.

reply to post by wylekat

WE can all get along. It's our stupid, greedy, thug governments that like to mix things up. Tho I will admit- WE are the dimwits who keep voting them in.

You say the governments are at fault, but just look at most of the preceding comments from ATS members - they read like a bunch of kids playing with war toys - not adults; talking about lives like they were meaningless and expendable.

Talk about brainwashing.

This is most likely THE testing of Obama's Mettle



If I recall, US and China have played these little war games often...

remember when China captured a US spy plane and the pilots

Bush's First 6 months... testing the "mettle"

www.pbs.org...

Originally posted by fooffstarr
I was reading an article a while back, and If I can find it again I'll link it, that suggested if a war broke out between the US and China, it would be far easier for China to punish America's Asian allies than try any kind of attacks against US soil.

True, it would be, but I have no doubt that the US would come to the aid of Japan and Australia.

That only makes me worry about the situation more. Wouldn't Australia stand out as a prime target?

The Australian military appears to be developed around this threat.

1) Distance and time: The Chicoms do not have a credible long range bombing force, nor do they have a blue water carrier. Thier ability to project force beyond lobbing an ICBM is very limited. Australias force is also built around similar realities. It can controll a large bubble around the continent but it would be difficult for them to conduct offensive operations against the Chicom mainland.

As good as no Navy, an aging Airforce and total population probably smaller than China's military alone.

No one has a gator navy big enough to support an invasion of Australia or China for that matter. Maybe standoff attacks supported by tankers etc. While the Australian AF is aging, they are extreemly skilled with modern tactics and training and would be in the drivers seat going aginst a long range Chicom attack.

Like Japan did in WW2, they could just cruise around North of us and strike at will. Cities like Darwin would take a pounding (again).

For the time being, the PLAN is much like a supersized coast guard. They have blue water ambitions, but simply do not have the assests to dominate anything but thier own coastline which would have the benifit of thier numericaly superior AF etc to help fend off attacks.

I also read that China lacks much in the way of invasion transport. But could they possibly use ships / landing craft etc of an allied nation to reach us?

THey do not have the ability to land in force. Nobody, not even the US has that capacity anymore

Originally posted by HiAliens
How easy is it for a sub to take out these carriers?

Its not easy at all.

The modern CBG was designed to go up to the Bearing Sea and play with the Soviets. Its defence in depth.

First you have to find them. They are modible and move around alot.

Once you find them:

1) You have to get past the E-2's and the BARCAPS
2) The Aegis comes into play. Aegis was designed for this exact scenario. Several Ticonderoga class and Arleigh Burke class ships would come into play
3) Then you have the ESSM
4) lastly you have the CIWS and the RAM point defence systems.

A sub attack using ASM or torpedos would bypass #1 but would have to contend with the usual ASW plus every CBG would have a few subs of her own in attendance plus a picket line of subs basically hunting anything floating off the Chicom coast.



Its not impossible to get at it mind you. Soviet era tactics used a combination of RORSATS / Bear spotters. Then using a combined attack by SSGN's and Backfire bombers they would saturate the CBG's defences.

In typical ATS fashion, all of you are screaming WAR!!!

This is nothing to be alarmed about. This is two potential (naval) rivals flexing their muscles at one another. Really, did you think the U.S. would just stand pat and let China just mess around with them?

Expect to see a lot of this to happen from time to time. And I will expect ATS to jump the gun (as they always do) and cry wolf. History shows that the wars we expect will occur, almost never do. We spent 46 years preparing to fight the Warsaw Pact in what was supposed to be the match of the millenium. It never materialized. This war with China probably won't materialize either. At least not in the way you want it to.

Banks would sure love a war right about now, however that is something i would really rather not see...atleast with a power that could just as easly win (As selfish as that sounds).

USA tends to push the limits alot and China's just getting annoyed with them snooping around.

reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo


I tend to agree. Both Navies are always flexing their muscles at eachother.

reply to post by JJRichey


Real-world evidence suggests that we have far more to be concerned about in Afghanistan, North Korea, and Pakistan. Yet the mainstream cannot imagine a war breaking out in either of those arenas, simply because it doesn't correlate with the stereotypical vision of what war is.

reply to post by FredT


Thanks for the reply.

Your knowledge in this area is amazing

Let's hope we never have to find out how right you would be.

reply to post by fooffstarr


Totally agree, FredT, you bring information and facts, not just spout about which country you support and make up silly reasons.

wow i just want more information.... i want to know how this will materialize... flex our muscles built with china's money.... i think thats saying something. how much do we owe them again 10 trillion?

www.chinapost.com.tw... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow"> www.chinapost.com.tw...
www.chinapost.com.tw...

Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao had said Friday he was concerned about the safety of the estimated $1 trillion his country has invested in U.S. government debt. China is Washington's biggest foreign creditor, and Obama's administration is counting on the Chinese to help pay for the $787 billion economic stimulus package by buying U.S. bonds.

Why would China attack their investment?

Doesn't make sense to me. Now if we had a chance to provoke them into attacking first, and if there was a chance that we could defeat them quickly to erase the debt . . . Still doesn't make sense.

It seems like the military of both countries is just "rattling their shields".

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
reply to post by BLV12

 

"Hit China's major economic centres, all located on its east coast, take out some major military installations.
Bam, China taken care of."

How about a "whammy!" or a "go bonzo!" Honesty, you make it sound like a cake-walk, and what have we learned from "cake-walks"? Eh? I am thinking of a character on Family Guy that sounds like Wagmire.

This is serious news. China has been secretive for 5,000 years, which is 4, 992 years long than Bush and Cheney, and yet you have the neocon mentality of sea-breezes. Well, it's not. China would love to fight if provoked, it is all the have been doing for 4,992 years more than Bush/Cheney. And then they have Russia on their side. No time for NAU, just NUKE, on our soil.

I am tired, and I need to sleep. I just wanted to chime-in that this type of laissez-fair attitude will be the death of us all.

So, yeah, I hope you were joking....

Blah blah blah China is secretive wow more blah blah blah
The US government tells you what it wants you to know and thinks you should know. Tell me, what do you really know about US special forces? Nothing. What do you really know about the armed forces true capabilities? Nothing. Do you know how the black budget is spent and on what projects? No? Thought so.

You make it sound as if the operations and going-ons of the US government are an open book for everyone. They aren't.
China may choose to shroud its people in secrecy in regards to the going-ons of the rest of the world, and the worlds reactions to Chinese dictatorship actions, but so what? Does it make them a stronger military power?

The Chinese lack many capabilities the US military has.

Are you aware China lacks a blue water navy?
Believe me sunshine, China is not a military threat to the United States of America. But it is trying and trying hard and fast to become one.
Don't worry, fortunately for you if China ever achieves such a status, it wont need to be provoked because its military doctrine is built around a confrontation with the USA, and one of the foreseen scenarios is Taiwan.